Bounty on CMDRS by CMDRS

[kofeyh]

The worst Frontier could do, would be try. Add a way to more easily locate repeat offenders, and set an initial bounty based (loosely) on degree of crime. If it's milked, then it can be adjusted to find a balance. The thing that irks me, is the incessant whining about people dying in Open, but an incredible passive aggressive wall of "my credits" the moment people propose a very very simple way for the community to essentially do what security forces can't.

Reliably hunt down miscreant commanders and claim their bounty. The game makes this hard, the bounty values are insignificant next to rebuy risk and the entire thing is just rediculous at this point.

Karma also means jack if the AI cannot reliably prosecute it. So either give the community the tools and impetus to do the thing; or stop whining about player deaths in Open because AI is useless.

The game can place bounties on those who earn them. It can also track where they are, and provide a framework for the bad amoungst is to compete to be the baddest, and gives commanders a big ol reason to hunt em down. Anything a player can submit, is open to abuse.

So let's use the things that exist already, and get on with it.

Pick one.

 

[StiTch]

It seems that everyone just thinks about how new features could be exploited.
IMHO if thats the mental attitude pretty much every idea will be rejected.

1) Nope, only the stupidly abusable features tend to get called out.

2) The proposition is pants to start with, whether you are prepared to accept it or not.

What would be more interesting is a means to seek players and NPCs with bounties, for example if they are spotted or scanned

This is how it's done, as I've put forwards before and presumably others before me ^

As part of karma-based C&P, someone with a low enough karma rating and any bounties either become visible on the galmap or a contact at station can be asked to give their last known location.

Physical requirement is there to contravene the "play nice" stance people are trying to promote if someone is gonna be hunted, there's potential facilitation of bounty transfer available (should FD wish to allow effective money transfers) and it can tied in with additional aspects of C&P to penalise the offending CMDR on death - for instance increased rebuy.

 

[Noctover]

In Eve bounties were like an Asbo to a chav IE, people did not want to lose them. I doubt there would be much of an issue people farming bounties off eachother but no one would ever get the bounty because if in threat they would just retreat in Solo. Same reason that PVP Bounty Hunting is impossible.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Very simple ... up to the moment practicality rears it's ugly head.

But the OP would rather not have different opinions in this thread, so have fun 'discussing' this with blinders on and high fiving each other, and snorting derisively at them silly nay-sayers with their objections. The solution is so easy: just adjust it. Why can't these 'my credits' (?) CMDRs just agree with everything so we can all get along?

Have fun in your little sowing circle fellers. I'll look for discussion elsewhere.

 

[Han_Zen]

Good way to double troll someone. First annoy a CMDR until that CMDR publically posts a bounty.

Hop in a sidey, get a mate to kill you with tube evidence. Now you trolled a CMDR and your mate gets cash.

Getting a large bounty is getting a gift that you can pass to any of your friends.

I have a bounty and need modular terminals, anyone up for a swap?

 

[kofeyh]

Good to see level, frank and polite discussion which is essentially "you are a poopy head for not agreeing".

Here's the thing. The AI, in order to cater for all possible denominators, cannot prosecute crime unless in vast number. Or are vastly outgunning the perp (eg external station guns).

This is the reality. So karma isn't going to be any more effective than the current crime system, at reducing crime. It's just going to be the same situation that players are vastly more capable than the security force. So. We have two options. Security force roll around in VAST numbers and are, in a word, lethal, or you deputise players via a working bounty system.

Those are the two options. Those are the only two options that will reliably add a consequence to repeated crime. That's it. That's all there is.

So again, pick one. I don't really care, but until people can actually pick one, this discussion is pointless.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Yes, please. Put bounty on me! You may eat it from my heated, excited body!

 

[Robert Maynard]

It seems that everyone just thinks about how new features could be exploited.
IMHO if thats the mental attitude pretty much every idea will be rejected. Why not just go for a thing and let FD do the thinking about exploits and that stuff.

As said before, this is just a base idea...no word on how the implementation would work in reality, but seriously that's not the point here.

Side effects of proposals necessarily need to be considered - like the fact that the system as proposed could be used to transfer credits to another player, as one example.

Player imposed bounties were discussed in the DDF - not implemented as yet though:

Pilot Federation Bounties

• When a member of the Pilot’s Federation is attacked, they have the option of setting a Pilot’s Federation Bounty on their assailant, within a preset min and max credits for this
  • This action is time limited – they forfeit the ability to set a bounty after a set time elapses once they have entered a different session (eg through death or hyperspace)
  • Should their ship be destroyed by the assailant they have a limited amount of time from when their escape pod arrives at a dock to set the bounty
    • Launching from a dock forfeits this ability if not already set
  • The credit value of a bounty must be available in the player’s account, and is immediately deducted.
• A Pilot’s Federation Bounty can only be claimed by any member of the Pilot’s Federation
• The Pilot’s Federation Bounty system does not bypass local laws such as “Unlawful Discharge” that may be active so players need to bear this in mind
• A Pilot’s Federation Bounty is only removed if claimed by a bounty hunter or redeemed by the perpetrator
  • Redemption can only occur after a set significant time period has elapsed (eg 1 calendar week) and the perpetrator makes financial restitution of a significant multiplier of the bounty (eg 10x) to the Pilot’s Federation

 

[Robert Maynard]

Here's the thing. The AI, in order to cater for all possible denominators, cannot prosecute crime unless in vast number. Or are vastly outgunning the perp (eg external station guns).

Sandro did mention, in the "Deliberate Ramming" thread, that NPCs sent against Engineered ships could receive some enhancement to better enable them to prosecute the task....

 

[Vorxian]

I'm constantly grieving a loss of a ship. Even more so when my 7yr old daughter deliberately button-boosts my cutter into the side of a station wall when I'm exiting..

RIGHT THAT'S IT. 10m cr bounty on her.


On topic... I think folks have mentioned the key issue. This stuff can lead to RMT. As soon as you open a money gate between players, the flood of 'gold farmers' will commence. As much as I hate not being able to credit some of you for being awesome, the problem is a far wider reaching issue that would only go to breaking what little economy we have.

 

[Friedenreich Xante]

Think of it solely as a way to transfer credits from player to player. I want to transfer X amount to A, so I put a bounty on B. He gets a suicide winder and let's A shoot him. Money transferred.

Never gonna happen.

 

[StiTch]

or you deputise players via a working bounty system.

All up for that.

There's a difference though between an integrated in-game mechanic and having a message pop up in game going "hey if you don't like what just happened to you, please go to this external forum website, create an account and put forwards even more of your money to ask people to kill him".

My dog can create better solutions than that.

I'm constantly grieving a loss of a ship. Even more so when my 7yr old daughter deliberately button-boosts my cutter into the side of a station wall when I'm exiting..

RIGHT THAT'S IT. 10m cr bounty on her.

Lol, repped for the chuckle.

 

[Roland Deschain]

Very simple ... up to the moment practicality rears it's ugly head.

But the OP would rather not have different opinions in this thread, so have fun 'discussing' this with blinders on and high fiving each other, and snorting derisively at them silly nay-sayers with their objections. The solution is so easy: just adjust it. Why can't these 'my credits' (?) CMDRs just agree with everything so we can all get along?

Have fun in your little sowing circle fellers. I'll look for discussion elsewhere.

Side effects of proposals necessarily need to be considered - like the fact that the system as proposed could be used to transfer credits to another player, as one example.

Yeah, sorry...of course I get the side effects, was just a bit frustrating, when after an idea you get 10 answers saying "forget it, will be exploited".
And frankly lots of things are limited due to the "exploit danger"....

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

What about........?

CMDRs are limited by their combat rank on how much of a bounty they can place on another CMDR. And only once, until the bounty is cleared or expired.
Money is instantly taken from your account.

And you can only place a bounty on a CMDR that as illegally attacked or destroyed you within the last 24 hours (real time).

CMDRs are also limited on how much they can claim from another CMDR, based on combat rank. CMDRs can only claim it once per 7 real time days, or until the bounty is completely cleared/expired and started again.

The total bounty is also added to the rebuy of the wanted ship, which combined with 2.4s C&P thing about using the rebuy of the ship that commited the crimes, could be very costly, and an ineffective way to farm it.

As for figures, that needs some careful balancing.
But to begin with, let's just say the amount you can place is 10k per combat rank. 10k for Harmless, 100k for Elite
Claiming is different, it starts at 10k for Harmless, and ends at 10mil or Elite.

Or something. Lol

It's good enough to encourage PvP bounty hunting, but not so good that it's actually worth trying to exploit. You can earn more other ways, much faster.

Thoughts?

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Robert Maynard]

Why combat rank?

.... other than that it's not so very different from the DDF proposal I quoted earlier.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Why combat rank?

.... other than that it's not so very different from the DDF proposal I quoted earlier.

I suppose it wouldn't matter if you used the highest of any of the ranks.

I probably got my inspiration from reading that somewhere else. Lol

 

[StiTch]

Thoughts?

I'd personally rather see it automated within karma/bounties, but with player bounty hunting being a potential facet of the retribution. So no manual placement of bounties, but below a given threshold of karma a players is visible to others in some form, and a bounty amount based on their rebuy can be provided to you.

No matter how you shake it though, a bounty system is always going to have potential for use in transfers. It already does have potential, and iirc the result is capped bounties on players. You can't stop this happening, but you can make it inordinately more expensive to the "transferrer"; for example the destroying bounty hunters gains the bounty on the criminal's head, up to the value of their rebuy, but separately the criminal pays four times their standard rebuy.

The result is gain for the bounty hunter but a net loss of funds, making it so inefficient to transfer that you lose four times what the recipient gains (factor of four being completely arbitrary here, of course)

Not a solve to transferal, but a deterrent, and more of a deterrent than we have today.

Don't get me wrong - in an ideal world a "manual placement of bounty" would be kinda cool, but it would be a convoluted process to prevent it being majorly abused.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I'd personally rather see it automated within karma/bounties, but with player bounty hunting being a potential facet of the retribution. So no manual placement of bounties, but below a given threshold of karma a players is visible to others in some form, and a bounty amount based on their rebuy can be provided to you.

No matter how you shake it though, a bounty system is always going to have potential for use in transfers. It already does have potential, and iirc the result is capped bounties on players. You can't stop this happening, but you can make it inordinately more expensive to the "transferrer"; for example the destroying bounty hunters gains the bounty on the criminal's head, up to the value of their rebuy,but separately the criminal pays four times their standard rebuy.

The result is gain for the bounty hunter but a net loss of funds, making it so inefficient to transfer that you lose four times what the recipient gains.

Not a solve, but a deterrent, and more of a deterrent than we have today.

Well my proposed system is so hopelessly inefficient to farm, it would take 100 Elite CMDRs to place the full 10,000,000cr bounty on another CMDR. Just for 1 Elite CMDR to claim the full 10,000,000cr. Lol
The 10,000,000cr is added to the wanted ships rebuy aswell.
And if you're trying to give a Harmless CMDR a load of money, they'd only get 10,000cr to cash in.
But the 10,000,000cr would still be added to their rebuy. Lol
And they'd still have a 9,990,000cr bounty, which can't be claimed by the harmless CMDR for a full week.

 

[lokvette]

First it might be an idea for FD to sort out the existing bounty system and have that mean something and a way to collect them before even entertaining the idea of a player on player system, one which I dont really think will ever happen anyway. Not that I'm in favour off it and the reasons are far too many to write and most have been posted already.

 

[StiTch]

Well my proposed system is so hopelessly inefficient to farm, it would take 100 Elite CMDRs to place the full 10,000,000cr bounty on another CMDR. Just for 1 Elite CMDR to claim the full 10,000,000cr.

Which is all well and good (and don't get me wrong, it's certainly an intriguing approach) until you realise you've gone so far in stopping its abusability it no longer works as a mechanic

100 Elite CMDRs for a 10 mill bounty? Realistically, how many bounties are actually gonna be dropped on that offender, and how many are really gonna be from Elite CMDRs that can actually put that amount of bounty on? A few in a good day's work ganking? When you're talking a few hundred k instead of 10 mill, you've basically just gone full circle on making money in PvP BHing redundant. I can make that in ten minute's work at a RES or in less time transferring data between two stations.

Again don't get me wrong...it's actually a very nice approach conceptually; multiple victims required to bolster the reward. In practice though I strongly suspect the financial side of it would be instantly irrelevant.

If you can tweak it a little so the financial aspect stands in its own right, but multiple victims are required to make the process viable in some way, I'd be really interested in the feedback it gets.