Bounty on CMDRS by CMDRS

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Which is all well and good (and don't get me wrong, it's certainly an intriguing approach) until you realise you've gone so far in stopping its abusability it no longer works as a mechanic

100 Elite CMDRs for a 10 mill bounty? Realistically, how many bounties are actually gonna be dropped on that offender, and how many are really gonna be from Elite CMDRs that can actually put that amount of bounty on? A few in a good day's work ganking? When you're talking a few hundred k instead of 10 mill, you've basically just gone full circle on making money in PvP BHing redundant. I can make that in ten minute's work at a RES or in less time transferring data between two stations.

Again don't get me wrong...it's actually a very nice approach conceptually; multiple victims required to bolster the reward. In practice though I strongly suspect the financial side of it would be instantly irrelevant.

Like said, the numbers need work, but the concept is there.
With almost any numbers it's still fairly ineffective to farm, and incredibly costly to the wanted ship, more so if you raise the figures.
There is no maximum cap on a bounty a CMDR can have either, so using my original figures, if a CMDR has somehow gains 100,000,000cr bounty, a wing of 4 Elote Hunters can claim 40,000,000cr of that between them. And cost the criminal 100,000,000cr on top of their rebuy.
That also leaves 60,000,000cr left for others to claim.

If you look at it as an financial incentive, rather than a full on bounty hunting career, it kinda works. You also get the satisfaction of knowing you cost the criminal quite alot. Lol

And again you can only place a bounty on a target that has illegally attacked or killed you. So you can't run around placing bounties on random strangers you pass in supercruise. Lol
You could go as far as having different limits based on the crime against you.
Assault could be capped rather low (10-100k), but murder capped higher (50-500k).
Or something.

 

[kofeyh]

Sandro did mention, in the "Deliberate Ramming" thread, that NPCs sent against Engineered ships could receive some enhancement to better enable them to prosecute the task....

Honestly as much as I understand there are variable skill levels, the local constabulary are just hopeless. In many cases unless it's a huge security force that is able to rapidly deploy and prosecute crime, even the Karma stuff will be undone by cops that just plain suck.

When you have player groups endlessly farming cops in a system to flip it, and they dutifully wake in with small number and almost like clockwork, whilst hopelessly outclassed, you sort of have to take a step back and question is the problem crime, and player killing, or is it that the game is just hopelessly and utterly unable to police that.

Because I reckon half the problem is the latter. The game just plain sucks at the basics of policing security. And nothing that is done to karma or anything else will be effective whilst the AI is dumber and less lethal than a plastic spork.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Honestly as much as I understand there are variable skill levels, the local constabulary are just hopeless. In many cases unless it's a huge security force that is able to rapidly deploy and prosecute crime, even the Karma stuff will be undone by cops that just plain suck.

When you have player groups endlessly farming cops in a system to flip it, and they dutifully wake in with small number and almost like clockwork, whilst hopelessly outclassed, you sort of have to take a step back and question is the problem crime, and player killing, or is it that the game is just hopelessly and utterly unable to police that.

Because I reckon half the problem is the latter. The game just plain sucks at the basics of policing security. And nothing that is done to karma or anything else will be effective whilst the AI is dumber and less lethal than a plastic spork.

If the karma system tracks trends then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that Security (in terms of number, AI difficulty, ships / equipment / Engineered mods) sent against a low karma CMDR would be "appropriate" to the threat posed by them, i.e. illegal PK/PD ratio taken into account and also the ship / equipment / Engineered mods being flown by the CMDR at that time.

 

[kofeyh]

If the karma system tracks trends then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine that Security (in terms of number, AI difficulty, ships / equipment / Engineered mods) sent against a low karma CMDR would be "appropriate" to the threat posed by them, i.e. illegal PK/PD ratio taken into account and also the ship / equipment / Engineered mods being flown by the CMDR at that time.

It is a stretch. Because if it was that easy to have a lethal response to crime, with very strong AI that are absolutely going to be some sort of threat to a competent PVP commander, we'd already have it. I'm sorry Rob, I just don't think Frontier can introduce that level of response, without commanders complaining and breaking the glass ceiling again.

You have more confidence in players to not compromise on lethality, to save their own skin, than I do. We've been there before. It didn't end well.

Because let's be honest. It's not the PVE commander who is endlessly ganking commanders and racking up huge kill counts, is it. It's hardy combat savvy players who hunt other people because the AI is essentially a joke, and because they can.

Think about the target audience for repeat offence, it's not the combat newb, or accidental cop winger, is it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It is a stretch. Because if it was that easy to have a lethal response to crime, with very strong AI that are absolutely going to be some sort of threat to a competent PVP commander, we'd already have it. I'm sorry Rob, I just don't think Frontier can introduce that level of response, without commanders complaining and breaking the glass ceiling again.

You have more confidence in players to not compromise on lethality, to save their own skin, than I do. We've been there before. It didn't end well.

The complaints about the bugged equipment were different, in my opinion - they were random and not targeted against the CMDR for a reason - hence a bug to be fixed.

We don't know that might have happened if the AI difficulty alone had been gradually increased - because that didn't happen.

More lethal NPCs should make the game more challenging for players that have incurred consequences - and, as in this example they'd be sent against low karma players, one or more players would be "happy" that the player on the receiving end was being dealt with by the game.

.... and Frontier *could* introduce Security / Naval ships with weapons that could cripple any ship, no matter how well Engineered, if they so chose.

 

[StiTch]

i.e. illegal PK/PD ratio taken into account and also the ship / equipment / Engineered mods being flown by the CMDR at that time.

This is a point of importance to me, because there are at present two concerns around equipment and mods with regards to C&P:

1) Modifications have no drawback - that is to say a ship modded to G5 standard has all the power increases, and none of the logistic offset. I can use a demon of an iCourier and have a practically nonexistent rebuy. From a general risk perspective, I would have liked to see a modded module increase in value.

2) C&P aims to target in particular cases of newer players being targeted, but no metric exists to determine who is "newer". The closest we have is the PF combat ranking, which we all know is about as relevant as a butcher's shop to a vegan family. If the ship's value and modifications can be taken into account, you are considerably closer to having something that matters.

 

[kofeyh]

Rob, I agree with you to a point, but even when the bugged modules were fixed, it just wasn't enough. Frontier leaving AI in the state they did, for as long as they did, has had huge and very long running consequences. It's ultimately lead to a no-win situation and outcome.

I want to believe it's salvageable. It's just that history has not really born that out.

And the reality is, frontier have a hopeless track record of being able to track context in the game. Player rank is still the most relevant stat they use for anything, despite them being essentially meaningless counters.

The game would absolutely not cope with Karma as it stands.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Rob, I agree with you to a point, but even when the bugged modules were fixed, it just wasn't enough. Frontier leaving AI in the state they did, for as long as they did, has had huge and very long running consequences. It's ultimately lead to a no-win situation and outcome.

I want to believe it's salvageable. It's just that history has not really born that out.

The underlying considerations, in my opinion, regarding AI difficulty / ships / equipment / Engineered mods are:

1) the game requires to be playable by players that do not own the Horizons expansion;
2) the game requires to be playable by players that cannot play with others (i.e. console owners without premium platform specific access);
3) the AI difficulty has to be set so that it is suitable for the majority of the player-base (i.e. not just those at the ends of the skill distribution spectrum).

Frontier need to consider the player-base as a whole when making changes....

 

[StiTch]

The underlying considerations, in my opinion, regarding AI difficulty / ships / equipment / Engineered mods are:

3) the AI difficulty has to be set so that it is suitable for the majority of the player-base (i.e. not just those at the ends of the skill distribution spectrum).

Really wish people would stop going "Aah, I heard difficulty, panic objection! Panic objection!".

Still don't see why NPCs have to be at "a difficulty point", when we could just make them difficult based on their combat rank.

If you want to take on baby NPCs, take on ones with the Harmless label attached.

If you want likely death or potential glory, start on an Elite one.

Why is this so difficult? -_-

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I like it. We could make a case for putting a bounty on TJ.

 

[Stealthie]

As usual, I find myself asking the question "How could it be abused?"

And I can't help thinking that it'd provide a surreptitious method for people to cooperate in order to transfer credits and/or make credits while wiping any bounty a friend might have on them.

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

The game would need to be able to tell a griefer from a legit kill.
Its not clear how this could be done.
As for the naming and shaming,that's a complete non starter,it's against forum rules to stop player harassment in game.
The griefers would use this to their advantage and ear mark players for their friends.
They revel in others misery and the more they can turn the knife the better.
I can see it now,someone suggests on the forums,"let's have an autopilot!". And the whole galaxy puts a trillion bounty on their head.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Really wish people would stop going "Aah, I heard difficulty, panic objection! Panic objection!".

Still don't see why NPCs have to be at "a difficulty point", when we could just make them difficult based on their combat rank.

If you want to take on baby NPCs, take on ones with the Harmless label attached.

If you want likely death or potential glory, start on an Elite one.

Why is this so difficult? -_-

It's not the difficulty at a particular NPC Combat rank, per se - it's the encountered difficulty by the player in general - and the game determines which NPCs / combat rank / ship / equipment is sent to encounter the player (in random encounters).

USSs are somewhat different as they are optional, as are CZs, RESs, etc..

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I like it. We could make a case for putting a bounty on TJ.

It's kinda unfair. I support TJ. Everybody seems to just pile on him. What if TJ puts a Bounty on you? Or a Snickers?

 

[StiTch]

It's not the difficulty at a particular NPC Combat rank, per se - it's the encountered difficulty by the player in general - and the game determines which NPCs / combat rank / ship / equipment is sent to encounter the player (in random encounters).

USSs are somewhat different as they are optional, as are CZs, RESs, etc..

The inderdicting forces are based on the player's combat rank. This would cause a problem if someone with little competence were at Elite rank, and interdicted by a tough enemy.

The problem part of that case would not be "interdicted by a tough enemy" but "someone with little competence were at Elite rank". It's widely known combat ranks are meaningless, to the point that it's an established procedure to write in asking for one's combat rank to be reverted.

I know they're clinging on to something of a legacy...hell, the game's very title is in reference to the ranking system and the same path one had to take 30 years ago to reach that esteemed rank. Afraid this isn't the same game though, and that ranking system is not suitable for what we have today.

If they are desperate not to budge it, the least they can do is create a specific site that is known to feature enemies that are properly engineered.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

It's kinda unfair. I support TJ. Everybody seems to just pile on him. What if TJ puts a Bounty on you? Or a Snickers?

I'd blame TJ if he put a bounty on me.

 

[StiTch]

I'd blame TJ if he put a bounty on me.

Well I would blame TJ if he didn't; if you ask me, that's sheer laziness.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If they are desperate not to budge it, the least they can do is create a specific site that is known to feature enemies that are properly engineered.

USSs with Threat Level > 4, Perilous RES, etc....

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I'd blame TJ if he put a bounty on me.

Why? They actually melt in the hand AND in the mouth. You'd be a chocolate-coco flavoured goody in no time.

 

[Echo Wake]

I know similar things have been suggested before, but I think this is slightly different so stay with me (and if not, please just put a link here and we can close this thread).

So you get grieved, or (the other way around) someone clogged. (Oh and of course I mean really getting grieved, not the "A pirat killed me, because I didn't gave him my cargo" kind of way, which is just legitimate gameplay)
Of course it would be nice (and this is the part that has been asked before) if you could use a galaxy wide bounty on that player, with your own money, which you would have to pay to the CMDR that kills the player in question.

But what if you are a new player and don't have much money to but bounty on another CMDR? Nobody cares for 50.000cr.
What if there was a special platform (like here in the forums) where you can "make your case", post videos and so on. If you can convince other CMDRS that you enemy has earned a big bounty, they can add bounty from their on ingame money.
Also this platform could be used to prevent CMDRS from randomly putting bountys on others, as you need some kind of proof.
If the CMDR in question decides to only play in solo anymore because of his bount, maybe after a certain period the bounty would go online in GALNET and all NPC go for the hunt also.
Additionally there would have to be some ways for the hunted CMDR to lift his bounty, like apologizing on said platform, or paying the CMDRS that put bounties on his head money....
Also (But this is FDs work to do) there'd have to be additional rules...for example "everything is allowed in anarchy systems", etc.

This way (at least I think)
-bounty hunting would become much more than just going to HRES' and killing NPCs (and make big amounts of money)
-It would be much more dangerous to be a Griefer
-Non-Combat and new Pilots would have a way to defend against Griefers
-There would be a way against combatlogging with a gameplay mechanic behind it.

Only downside I see is the need of this platform (never good to need something outside a game to play a game), however this forum and the community is just so active, it feels to me like most CMDRS have a login already anyway.

What do you think?

While this is an interesting concept, it could be easily abused I think. I know at least one player group on Xbox that would be in serious trouble if this ever got put in place... Damn combat loggers.

And then the tenacity to attack our BGS in private and solo because they are afraid to fight us in open play...

Anyway back on the topic at hand. Individual groups tend to run their own bounty boards. From I have seen it works fairly well. Once someone has climbed a kill with proof, the bounty is removed.