Barely back in the saddle (seat) a week and idiots strike

[NeilF]

I hate to break it to you, but Frontier just don't care. They simply do not care. If they actually cared, C&P would be more than Sandy's occasional ruminations over Karma or whatever other random idea to solve 'the problem' happens to be any other week. The bright sparks decided that random combat was a valid game function, and have rudimentary in-game sanctions in place. C&P is simplistic, borderline lip service.

PVP is part of the fabric of the game, as is combat. One can be allergic to one or both, and that's fine; but it's going to be there, regardless, unless one picks PG or Solo (and in particular, Solo).

Frontier advertised "or just hunt commanders" in their literature; and that's something they are ultimately fine with; folks are not required to have reason or justification, because Frontier is cool with them "just hunting commanders". There will always be outliers and extreme elements in any game; and building it to try and manage them, is almost always an exercise in futility. Pick a mode. Move on.

The odds that Frontier will actually have a relevant, contextual crime and punishment system is loosely located between some-and-none.

When Powerplay was released (soon after Wings) I really expected it to offer solid combat related gameplay; Orchestrated military type tasks involving combat, stealth, recon, which players could undertake. And I fully expected this to be the beginning of solid co-op PvE and full on PvP gameplay in ED... I expected huge orchestrate military affairs as per their capital ship promo-video from years before...

Over two years on... We don't even have the notion of co-op PvE tasks/missions, let alone really more involved combat scenarios

PvP is (still) generally just a playground brawl for little/no reason/outcome And FD haven't as yet even put any teachers on duty in the play ground to keep an eye on it!

Here's what im thinking. You paid money for Elite to play the way you want within the rules of the game. You have several modes available but you CHOSE open.
These "Idiots", paid money for Elite to play the way they want within the rules of the game. They have several modes available to them but CHOSE to play in open.

Im not sure they are the idiots...

And if FD created inadequate rules, controls and PvP environment on release... and X years on still haven't progressed/addressed the matter, where does your logic lead? Careful now...

 

[Powderpanic]

Yes Op the approved solution now for all challenge is to hide from it in blocked mode!

Maybe if you had a better faster ship you wouldn't have gotten ganked.

Did you stop to ask the players for their role play before assuming griefers?

It is now FDEV approved to not need skills in ED!

 

[Noctover]

And if FD created inadequate rules, controls and PvP environment on release... and X years on still haven't progressed/addressed the matter, where does your logic lead? Careful now...

It leads to the same place. I don't know why some people find it SO difficult to comprehend this. But this is a GAME, its PIXELS, its PIXELS that people have equally paid for. Within the rules of those pixels you can do whatever you want, just because their game does not fall in line with the OP's does not give him the right to call anyone idiots. I'd rather go for a beer with the guys that attacked him than a guy who comes on a forum calling people he does not know "idiots" because they played the game the way they wanted. Its pathetic.

 

[Noctover]

Blocking is the way to go here. Unless they were following you from system to system, in which case you'd do better to report them for harassment via the in-game form.

Posts like this seriously boggle my mind. If they look at you block them, if they have the audacity to follow you in this online PVP enabled mode HEAVEN FORBID! REPORT THEM!....

Why dont we just cover everyone in bubblewrap. Better yet! Disable non-consensual PVP!

 

[timbero]

Or walk around in the buff.

I don't know what that means, but alright.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...PvP is (still) generally just a playground brawl for little/no reason/outcome And FD haven't as yet even put any teachers on duty in the play ground to keep an eye on it!

Sorry to the OP for going a bit off-topic, but the fact that FD DIDN'T tie PvP to the strongest in-game conflict narrative they have: PowerPlay, says it all really. PowerPlay should/could have been the perfect playground for PvP. Meaningful PvP.

But maybe creating a universe without meaning was part of Davids vision. It makes sense on a deeper level. Is that not as true a replication of the universe as can be? Control is an illusion after all. Hence Open mode being the purest version of Davids game?...

I ramble and hope to be excused.

 

[Crank Larson]

And if FD created inadequate rules, controls and PvP environment on release... and X years on still haven't progressed/addressed the matter, where does your logic lead? Careful now...

They didn't. As people keep pointing out, if you want to avoid random encounters that you may not enjoy, then don't choose Open. You have two other modes you can enjoy. To many of us, the existing rules of the game are on the whole quite adequate. A few tweaks could be made here and there (mines on a landing pad is a hostile act ), but that is all.

In this case, the two people interdicting the OP didn't even attack! It was a minor inconvenience, surely? Being repeatedly interdicted is avoidable.

I play in private group when I don't want to have random encounters. But I play in Open quite regularly too, and also quite regularly get my ship destroyed by another player (every couple of weeks or so - regular, but not overly common). Each time I have such an encounter, I try to learn what I could have done to have got out of it. In my last such encounter I realised that my mistake was not fighting, and instead trying to run. At the second interdiction I should have fought, as my escape plan was faulty (actually, I didn't have one, so was unprepared). However, I didn't, and I died. I'm quite embarrassed to admit I was in a fully A-rated and armed Python at the time, and my only thought was "run away". I'm working on that one.

But anyway, as people have said... Open means you'll have random encounters, and they may not be pleasant. But personally, I want these to be part of the game - they will improve my game when I get my forward planning worked out.

 

[777Driver]

Another whinge topic about nothing..

 

[Globusdiablo]

Another whinge topic about nothing..

And yet here you are.

 

[Noctover]

Another whinge topic about nothing..

/Thread

 

[Globusdiablo]

/Thread

Posting in threads that you dislike. The concept baffles me...

 

[Noctover]

Posting in threads that you dislike. The concept baffles me...

On the contrary my friend; i mostly post in threads i disagree with.

 

[Globusdiablo]

On the contrary my friend; i mostly post in threads i disagree with.

Yet you proclaim the ending of a thread. Hardly an argument. I enjoy your posts when they contain an actual argument though.

 

[NeilF]

But maybe creating a universe without meaning was part of Davids vision. It makes sense on a deeper level. Is that not as true a replication of the universe as can be? Control is an illusion after all. Hence Open mode being the purest version of Davids game?...

I ramble and hope to be excused.

Personally? I think the fact we don't have more solid orchestrated/purposeful PvP and the reason why it wasn't tied into Powerplay as you'd expect, and/or military ranking/careers? Simply development effort and development goals! ie...

Clearly at release everything was fairly simple, so it's not surprising PvP had little depth/meaning. But two+ years on?

Development Effort - Obviously a lot of work would be required to achieve it - But FD decided development effort was more urgently required elsewhere. So instead of creating NPC wingmen to start injecting into bigger bolder missions/tasks, more involved combat scenarions such as convoy escorting and attacking, or full on station blockade mechanics, we got development time spend on CQC.

Development Goals - And if FD decide feature X will result in a more "producting outcome" (selling more units on the title of the new feature alone?), then we get things like Ship Launched Fighters and Multi-Crew, instead of actual deep and involved new gameplay and mechanics. Or The Engineers instead of actual new deeper gameplay and mechanics.


The game needs more involved combat scenarios to use in Powerplay, missions and CGs. They should allow PvE with NPC wingmen. Then should allow PvP with/against other CMDRs. We need stealth/recon type gameplay to actually use the much once lauded silent/cold running. We need piracy to actually have some solid mechanics and a career. We need a solid C&P (karma) mechanic to penalise habitual illegal destruction, while the game offers many avenues for "legal destruction". In short we need some truly solid progress instead of rather simplistic bolt on developments...

 

[Noctover]

Yet you proclaim the ending of a thread. Hardly an argument. I enjoy your posts when they contain an actual argument though.

Well, i'll tell you what my argument is, its actually more something that irritates me, and it should't, but it riles me up.

Most people will agree ED is a pretty safe game, there is very little in the way of danger unless you fall asleep mid jump, drop the ball docking or go AFK in a CZ. Other than that you really need to create the danger for yourself. Now the only real danger lies in Open...

These things can be avoided entirely by playing in Solo, avoided for the most part by having a little common sense/savvy in Open, and even if you get caught the vast majority of the time you can escape/highwake. When people go in to Open and they experience a little bit of danger, a minority (hopefully) come to the forum to aggressively condemn players who did nothing wrong but choose the murder-hobo path in the game.

These guys, didn't even attack the OP...Yet people are telling him to Block them immediately? And report them if they follow him?! I mean are you serious! People want to have their cake, eat it, then make more cake. They want to play in Open but condemn anyone that attacks them which is a perfectly legitimate playstyle. I ask you, who is actually the more aggressive person, the people who interdicted the OP but didn't even attack his pixels? Or him calling them "Idiots" for doing it? One of those is an attack on the players, the other is gameplay.

What narks me, is that this community is a stickler for attention to detail (that bit dosent annoy me but bare with me), they want to know how air stays in stations, how explosions can be heard, how the artificial gravity works..How insurance works, how the dark side of planets render light, etc etc etc. And yet, for such requested detail that (dosent actually matter?) people are more than happy to break this immersion and deal with anyone who decides they want to shoot them with totally unrealistic out-of-game means like blocking or reporting.

Honestly i know this community is a more mature age group, me included; but i do think some people need to grow up. This is a game, and if people want to attack you, in Open, within the rules of the game, why should we condemn them for it. The ball is in FDs court to create consequences to theses actions but again, the lack of C&P is NOT the players fault.

 

[NeilF]

They didn't. As people keep pointing out, if you want to avoid random encounters that you may not enjoy, then don't choose Open. You have two other modes you can enjoy. To many of us, the existing rules of the game are on the whole quite adequate. A few tweaks could be made here and there (mines on a landing pad is a hostile act ), but that is all.

In this case, the two people interdicting the OP didn't even attack! It was a minor inconvenience, surely? Being repeatedly interdicted is avoidable.

I play in private group when I don't want to have random encounters. But I play in Open quite regularly too, and also quite regularly get my ship destroyed by another player (every couple of weeks or so - regular, but not overly common). Each time I have such an encounter, I try to learn what I could have done to have got out of it. In my last such encounter I realised that my mistake was not fighting, and instead trying to run. At the second interdiction I should have fought, as my escape plan was faulty (actually, I didn't have one, so was unprepared). However, I didn't, and I died. I'm quite embarrassed to admit I was in a fully A-rated and armed Python at the time, and my only thought was "run away". I'm working on that one.

But anyway, as people have said... Open means you'll have random encounters, and they may not be pleasant. But personally, I want these to be part of the game - they will improve my game when I get my forward planning worked out.

That's fine....

But ultimately I'd rather "illegal destruction" was being done for some purpose other than a group of fully engineered ships getting a kick out of causing grief and aggravation to a CMDR in an exploration ship who is complete out-gunned. Is this the kind of gameplay we want? Is this what we should be excusing/embracing?

Personally I'd also much rather see the game offer some more interesting combat scenarios and gameplay than the all too common random interdictions going on. I'd like to sign up for a cause, and with other CMDRs fight for it, and see an outcome. The game tries to achieve this of course, but with basically 2+ years old placeholder mechanics it really is players trying to make the best of the paper thin tools available to them isn't it! Indeed even the capital promo-video from 2014 shows gameplay we still can only dream of!


To suggest the game was release 30+ months ago with perfect mechanics, that cannot be improved, and therefore what we see taking place now is all well and good, seems odd to me at least. The game needs improving both from a C&P (karma) point of view, and a PvE & PvP point of view... It's long over due... "Go and play in a different mode," after 2+ years doesn't cut it for me! (They've thrown buckets of time at CQC, Powerplay, The Engineers, Multi-Crew etc... and here we still are in the same paper thin mechanics/gameplay!)

Why suggest "Go and play in SOLO"... Why not suggest "Make OPEN better"?

 

[kofeyh]

We need a solid C&P (karma) mechanic to penalise habitual illegal destruction, while the game offers many avenues for "legal destruction". In short we need some truly solid progress instead of rather simplistic bolt on developments...

For once I agree with you. The game also needs a way to prosecute that though. It's simplistic in part because the game AI can't reliably prosecute the consequences of crime; you can make a system as simple or as complicated as you want. With as much or as little context as you want.

But all of it, all of it is redundant if it can't be enforced. The solutions are viable AI security that can reliably prosecute crime (where relevant), or other commanders. Which is it going to be? The system is only as good as its execution.

 

[Stigbob]

Yes Op the approved solution now for all challenge is to hide from it in blocked mode!

Maybe if you had a better faster ship you wouldn't have gotten ganked.

Did you stop to ask the players for their role play before assuming griefers?

It is now FDEV approved to not need skills in ED!

The gankers lacked the requisite skill and the OP got away so no actual gank happened.

Oddly enough when Sandro Sammarco advised players to make use of the block function he did it in a thread about chain interdicting, which is exactly what the OP experienced. So in this instance blocking is exactly what ED's lead designer advises players should do.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

PvP is (still) generally just a playground brawl for little/no reason/outcome

This is certainly true. On the other hand, suggestions to give PvP an officially supported reason - which in practice means Open-only content, unless you set up a very focused PG - tend to be criticised very strongly by those who feel that all content should be available in all modes. So we're left with setting up tournaments (fun, but a bit artificial), or - for the ones playing a "good" pilot - system patrol or escort (which relies, for it to be meaningful Pv*P*) on the people who are the targets of threads such as these.

The consistent experience of the losing side in any conflict not being able to accept it wasn't a fix (whether the conflict is direct PvP or otherwise, though the Salomé case had an even more ridiculous forum aftermath than most) probably also doesn't help if/when Frontier are thinking of setting any more up.

 

[Powderpanic]

Personally? I think the fact we don't have more solid orchestrated/purposeful PvP and the reason why it wasn't tied into Powerplay as you'd expect, and/or military ranking/careers? Simply development effort and development goals! ie...

Clearly at release everything was fairly simple, so it's not surprising PvP had little depth/meaning. But two+ years on?

Development Effort - Obviously a lot of work would be required to achieve it - But FD decided development effort was more urgently required elsewhere. So instead of creating NPC wingmen to start injecting into bigger bolder missions/tasks, more involved combat scenarions such as convoy escorting and attacking, or full on station blockade mechanics, we got development time spend on CQC.

Development Goals - And if FD decide feature X will result in a more "producting outcome" (selling more units on the title of the new feature alone?), then we get things like Ship Launched Fighters and Multi-Crew, instead of actual deep and involved new gameplay and mechanics. Or The Engineers instead of actual new deeper gameplay and mechanics.


The game needs more involved combat scenarios to use in Powerplay, missions and CGs. They should allow PvE with NPC wingmen. Then should allow PvP with/against other CMDRs. We need stealth/recon type gameplay to actually use the much once lauded silent/cold running. We need piracy to actually have some solid mechanics and a career. We need a solid C&P (karma) mechanic to penalise habitual illegal destruction, while the game offers many avenues for "legal destruction". In short we need some truly solid progress instead of rather simplistic bolt on developments...

Purposeful PVP will never exist in this game because to include it would force anyone who plays in Open to attain a certain level of skill or an acceptance that PVP can and will happen to them, if they chose to click on Open.

As it seems unlikely the community we see as whole is going to embrace that and because it would probably go against something, someone said once in a kickstarter video. You would also get that band lighting their torches in an attempt to stamp it out dead before it even got given life.

To make PVP meaningful EVEN if FDEV added that into the game would be completely null and voided by all the current escape mechanics that people for some reason fail to learn and use.

For enlightenment

Submit Highwake ignoring masslock. Comical and results in ZERO chance of a bounty hunter catching a naughty player.
Larger ships being able to instantly wake away from multiple smaller ships ( No chance of wolf packs at this time )
FSD reset missiles having a ridiculously long cool down time regardless of how many are hitting the target after the initial reset. ( Try it, you can easily high wake away after the first reset )
Shields having such incredibly high MJ's now that it takes around 15minutes of 1v1 fighting to drop the shields on a suitability engineered ship. ( YES WE KNOW THE TRADE SHIPS SUCK, DONT FLY THEM. THERE ARE BETTER OPTIONS FOR DISTANCE AND CARGO )
FDEV approved 15 second combat log

This is the main reason why Player killers can run free and why Karma isnt going to make a dent in the problem.

If you are half decent at this game and dont fly stupid ship builds, you have almost zero chance of getting ganked. Even by a wing of SDCs finest on their best day.
This merry dance will continue.