Hull repair limpets: has sense been pre-applied?

[CMDR Ellegon]

The most hull damage I've ever taken on an exploration trip was 1% and that was over about 105K LY, plus I only got it by faceplanting a black hole out of sheer stupidity.

On top of that, I would have to lose range by a) equipping a limpet controller and b) carrying some limpets. That means out of my three exploration ships I literally cannot use them in the DBX because I don't have any spare slots and the only way I could use them in my Asp would be by not taking an AMFU, which means I wouldn't be able to do any significant number of neutron star jumps due to the FSD damage not being repairable.

So yeah. I could equip them on my Anaconda and lose some of the jump range I spent time on engineering every piece of gear for just to repair an insignificant amount of damage that I would only ever incur due to my own carelessness to begin with, on account of there being literally nothing that you will encounter as an explorer which will do hull damage unless you fly into it.

None of that is a reason not to implement them but I can hardly say that I see them as any kind of priority.

Well, not everybody appears to be as careful (and lucky!) as you are. There is a thread on the forum right now about a guy that is down 40% or so on his modules and hull after just 2,500 ly. So different styles, temperaments and explorer skills. More power to FDev if they cater to them all.

<on Anaconda for Exploration>

Well not if your problem is not wanting to spend an exploration trip, when you fly almost exclusively in supercruise, in a ship whose supercruise flight performance is roughly on a par with the Hindenburg.

At the same time, jump range is significantly higher. Super Cruise turn rate is "good enough" for me. Again, different play styles.

 

[CMDR Mayhem]

Hmmm, wonder what the OP chose for tea?

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Can you even repair yourself with them?
I

iirc the answer in the livestream was yes. Although that could have changed since then.

 

[kofeyh]

From https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ntier_qa_panel_lavecon_2017_features_changes/

"Mark Allen, lead programmer, confirms some new additions: Repair limpets for hull"


First off, let me clarify I believe this to be an appalling idea. But this isn't my game, so I would like to scourge the minds of all that might read, to see what we currently know about its implementation.

Oh I am pretty sure during beta it will be rapidly be discovered that you can deploy limpets and repair hull whilst under attack and with shields active; because that's how all the existing controllers work. So, let's assume for a moment, in a utter surprise to everyone, Frontier does exactly what they do for every other controller, and PVP folks realise with enough limpets and controllers, they can potentially out-repair incoming damage to the point that this makes them virtually impervious.

Remember the healing beam? That outperformed incoming damage by a factor of about 2:1?

I'm pretty sure it's going to be hilarious; until Frontier get some feedback and realise that might not be an intended outcome and set a laundry list of hurdles one must cross before using the module. And all the explorers roll their eyes and go back to just tanking hull damage from stars that dog-gone it leap in front of them, because it's just easier.

Now, I could be wrong. But what do you think the odds of that are?

Also the commentary about exploration was hilarious; when was the last time anyone died due to 0% hull whilst exploring? Anyone? If you take anaconda, the galaxy itself will experience heat death before you hit 0% hull integrity, and that's even if you're trying to bash into everything. Never mind a decent heavy duty stat roll can add +15-25% to base armour to lightweight, for any ship, with no mass cost. Meaning an extra 15-20% armour to whittle down.

In before half the explorers chime in "wait, you can do that?!".

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Also the commentary about exploration was hilarious; when was the last time anyone died due to 0% hull whilst exploring? Anyone? If you take anaconda, the galaxy itself will experience heat death before you hit 0% hull integrity, and that's even if you're trying to bash into everything. Never mind a decent heavy duty stat roll can add +15-25% to base armour to lightweight, for any ship, with no mass cost. Meaning an extra 15-20% armour to whittle down.

In before half the explorers chime in "wait, you can do that?!".

Tried hitting a planet during landing recently? I seem to remember a number of people that suffered from 1 or 2 single encounters with gravity on distant worlds and by the end were not joining landings just to try and be sure their 16% hull didn't shatter at the end. It works for those that are in small ships and don't have space for shields and an SRV.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/368073-We-need-hull-repair-limpets

Is a perfect recent example...


Anyway I find your pessimism very British, there's been a Dev post in case you didn't notice, they don't believe HRLs will be effective during combat. It's been thought of. All we can do now is wait 7 days for beta and find out if that's true or not. Yes it may be another healing beam situation but frankly why get yourself stressed over it? The developers feel its' good, lets wait and see because with that being the case we can fret for eternity and nothing will change as they think it's good as is and we don't know what "as is" is.

 

[Valethar]

Heh, if this has you all wired up, wait until you realize they're not really limpets.

 

[kofeyh]

Tried hitting a planet during landing recently?

No? I don't slam into the ground like an idiot. I fly FA-Off, so landings I tend to be a bit particular with.

I seem to remember a number of people that suffered from 1 or 2 single encounters with gravity on distant worlds and by the end were not joining landings just to try and be sure their 16% hull didn't shatter at the end. It works for those that are in small ships and don't have space for shields and an SRV.

Engineer the hull, heavy duty mod can add armour and there's no weight gain. It's magic. I understand what you are saying, but flying without shields and landing on a high-G planet is a personal choice; not something for frontier to resolve. Not saying they don't have value it's just Frontier have this habit.

Anyway I find your pessimism very British, there's been a Dev post in case you didn't notice, they don't believe HRLs will be effective during combat.

I'm sure it has. Like saying the healing mod wouldn't be overly effective during battle.

It's been thought of.

That's what worries me. They have thought of what we do in game; as opposed to what we actually do in game. It should be fascinating.

All we can do now is wait 7 days for beta and find out if that's true or not.

I know, super excite. Can't wait.

Yes it may be another healing beam situation but frankly why get yourself stressed over it?

Me? Oh man I am not even remotely stressed. I'm just having a giggle because Frontier, bless them (I am super fond of the team just for the record) just have this knack of so completely overdoing things. I'm waiting for this to turn into healies for feelies 2.0. I'm sure there will be plenty of sitting in a station with limpets repairing and shooting at ships. Sitting in a station with two people healing a third, which is shooting at ships.

Again, I'm neither salty or stressed. I'm just looking forward to beta and seeing how it plays out and what hilariously broken outcomes this will lead to, causing a bunch of hurried fixes.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

I still like my idea of having hull repair limpets use mineable resources.

The more new (or existing, I guess) game mechanics are tied to in-game logistical chains, the more opportunities you create for player-driven emergent gameplay.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

From https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...ntier_qa_panel_lavecon_2017_features_changes/

"Mark Allen, lead programmer, confirms some new additions: Repair limpets for hull"


First off, let me clarify I believe this to be an appalling idea. But this isn't my game, so I would like to scourge the minds of all that might read, to see what we currently know about its implementation.

It goes without saying that, ignoring yet another loss to consequence, there is serious abuse potential behind such a tool. The main ones from a combat perspective are as follows:

- Phasing becomes irrelevant (PvP only until NPCs gain experimental effects). With damage trickling through shields as it is, especially after being nerfed, and having no PvE application you may as well write this effect off as an unequivocal disadvantage. The kinda fluff that is only used by people that don't know how it works yet.

- Shield builds can heal hull with shields up (All playstyles). What it says on the tin. Do we need iCutters with several k mj shields recharging that shield, then curing all damage it took between an AFMU and hull repair unit?

- Faster ships can zoom off, heal, return (All playstyles). Again...what it says on the tin. Effective removal of attrition damage as well as free mid-combat reheals.


What I am hoping to hear is the glorious words "this will not work during combat" in some form, whatever ED would use to determine you as in combat. In addition I would like to hear there's any kind of obstacle to the run off/heal/return problem.

All knowledge welcome, including about what I am having for tea tonight.

This fear is not reasonable at this point of time.
- Firstly: shieldcells and heal beamswork during combat, afmu's work during combat (if you have enough power), so why not repair limpets?
- Second: repair limpets would take one module, a cargobay for the limpets itself another.

So every ship that want to take advantage of them would need to sacrifice 2 internal slots for them which weakens the build in general massively.
And in the role of a supporter, it's the equal to the heal beams and pulses. They can be already now immortal so why not bringing back hulltanks back to combat? Thanks to corrosive shell, not even 11 HRP's on an anaconda + reactive surface composite can provide even a fracture of the protection that shields offer at the moment.

 

[lokvette]

You can tell I have no interest in PVP as when I read about them my first thought was, cool now I can repair my hull if I bodge a landing out in the black.

Saying that when 2.4 hits I might be nowhere near a station thus they won't be of any use to me until I get back go into rehab spend the next few months after that playing the BGS, then a break for a bit then back out to the void, then I might have use for them.

But I do see the OP's point of view.

 

[Truesilver]

I can see that several users have read the OP / page 1 and perhaps this page and then posted (perfectly reasonably, I do the same all the time).

So, for those that wouldn't otherwise spot it, Sandro has already replied in the thread:

Hello Commanders!

Hull repair limpets should not be effective in combat.

 

[StiTch]

Complaining about nothing. If you don't' like them.. don't use them. Don't deny the rest of us from using them.

ED is not just about Pew-Pew!
It is even less about PvP!

Well if ye two among others could use your optic nerves correctly, or could drop the somewhat hypocritical notion of witch hunting and attacking people, you might just notice I have swallowed my disapproval of the idea. The aim of this thread was, pure and simple, to obtain any facts we currently have on the topic.

I also clarified it's a non-PvP specific complaint. Only phasing's irrelevance would be PvP specific.

Now, ye going to untwist your knickers?

Hello Commanders!

Hull repair limpets should not be effective in combat.

Thankyou Sandro!

While a little ambiguous, the sentiment is spot on. I look forward to seeing how this is implemented.

OP updated.

I suppose the question is: do they heal enough hull per limpet to be worth giving up two internals (controller+cargo bay) for, and would you get more effective health out of HRPs instead?

I suspect in a situation it's usable, there would be no hard/fast rule but would be viable on most builds with at least two reasonable slots to dedicate to it (as you say) and enough other slots dedicated to HRPs that you can reliably survive a bout of shield droppage.

In the same announcement you will notice that limpet synthesis was also announced, meaning you wouldn't need to dedicate a massive slot to cargo to basically infinite healies.

But following clarification that's hopefully mere theorycraft

Hmmm, wonder what the OP chose for tea?

Fish and chips!

Made from scratch though. Home made batter rules.

 

[Darth Krayt]

I need fast ship to scan surfaces for things, Anaconda will simply not do, plus I like Asp so much better for photos, but that is probably topic for another discussion

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/UdAraQA.png

Take a fighter. Oh wait...
Take an Anaconda

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

Hi commanders,

to be honest, I was kinda hoping, that hull repairs would have been saved "for later", to be performed when legs are the thing... you know - going out of your ship in a spacesuit with a welder in hands... I imagined puting some plates to cover big holes in the hull, welding the edges, sealing small holes with some kind of foam or something...


Limpets seem to me a little bit lame :/ But I do not really mind...


Good luck to you all and fly DANGEROUSLY ;-) Karlos

 

[Darth Krayt]

Hi commanders,

to be honest, I was kinda hoping, that hull repairs would have been saved "for later", to be performed when legs are the thing... you know - going out of your ship in a spacesuit with a welder in hands...

This was something you could do in the X3 series games. It was enormously tedious though.

 

[Wyaston Hypatia]

A tangental thought -
Could their main use be to keep a ship spaceworthy after an encounter with the Thargoids?
After all this is the Thragoids update so one wonders if all the other things that they are adding have some point from that. Otherwise it would seem to fit more with the post 2.4 core fixes.

 

[Darth Krayt]

Baton raises a good point though: Even on my exploration Anaconda I would have to sacrifice one of my two AFMUs to install a limpet controller while keeping a shield, fighter bay, SRV, one cargo bay and scanners.
[Edit]: Forgot the docking computer.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Using limpets in combat is pretty iffy anyway. Half the time if I'm material farming in a CZ, my limpets get shot down. Lol

Repair Limpets probably won't work on yourself either, I'd imagine. And probably work slowly.

 

[Truesilver]

Repair Limpets probably won't work on yourself either, I'd imagine.

Actually the Devs said they will, in the stream.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Actually the Devs said they will, in the stream.

Probably helps to watch the streams, doesn't it?