Optimistic person is optimistic.
They've been talking about this mythical karma system for over 2 years now. I hope you do turn out to be right, but I'm not holding my breath.
How much of an impact do you truly believe rebuys have on murder hobo'ing?
- Thread starter Powderpanic
- Start date
Optimistic person is optimistic.
They've been talking about this mythical karma system for over 2 years now. I hope you do turn out to be right, but I'm not holding my breath.
Goose4291
Banned
Which is never going to happen sadly, as people are already up in arms about having to scan more than one data point to complete multiple missions.
1) The common reason this is advocated is the reduced cooldown (the other being that in PvE, it wastes more of your time to fight than to just bloomin' drop out and jump into SC again). I agree that submit/run has become so accepted that some have possibly forgotten an interdiction minigame exists...but the "rules" around that minigame are so unclear, and on the surface appear so inconsistent, that the massively increased FSD cooldown isn't worth it for a CMDR on the run. A few seconds before h-jump, where you can waste half of that diving behind the attacker...almost impossible to die for a semi-competent pilot. 40 seconds of survival before you can jump? That's a different story.
I'd probably say try to fight but if it looks like it's going their way, take it and throttle down.
2) Hell yeah! I'll add to this that if a player has a few basic mats and a few mins to spend at an engineers, you could engineer a set of mine layers with special effects...unengineered you prolly will just confuse them. Lay a few mines to mash a ganker's shield generator and he just ended up on the "trolled" end. Even better if they're the noob kinda ganker that doesn't read loadouts or think to watch for mine laying.
I admit that I sort of skimmed the OP.
Is the question would full rebuys prevent PK'ing?
The answer is no. I have about 1.5B in assets, and fly mainly vipers. As I've stated in the past, I have vipers that will shred many traders in no time, but only because many traders seem to take no measure to reinforce their ships. (I don't generally go around PK'ing, but have been guilty of overly-aggressive piracy in the past).
What I'm saying is, were I to take one of these Vipers to a trade CG, I'm sure that I could find plenty of soft targets to engage. And what would be my risk? 10M credits?
I made 7.5M last night without trying very hard.
As for full insurance... 500k Cr? lol
*edit*
And just to be clear, I do have my Reverb Torpedo Courier on standby to prove it
*Edit #2*
And when I say many traders make no effort to protect their ships, I mean it. I take these same Vipers mat hunting in anarchy rings sometimes, and properly outfitted NPC T-7s are a pain in the butt to kill because they can soak up so much damage. What I'm saying is, you see those useless little size 3 slots in your T-7? Throw some MRP/HRPs in there and buy yourself some military bulkheads, for god's sake.
Yeah, a nicely elaborated point that I made earlier.
Money is the worst vector for C&P going. Gankers typically have high wealth and in this case specifically, are going to be the hardest to kill to extract that rebuy from.
The closest you'll get is NO rebuys - i.e. you lose your ship on death. And that...is a pants idea. Utterly pants. Murder is still too easy with a nearly unengineered ship, we'd be back to having a problem with SuiSideys, and we'd have an immense abusability window....learn to trigger the "PvP murder" response on someone wrongfully, and you can potentially look at removing their entire ship and engineered modules. Support are gonna love that.
Also, that comes back to a timesink-based penalty, which only works for people that dislike the affected.
What we should be seeing is the game treat us like criminals. But that involves development of content, and development of new content is quite apparently a scarce resource...
Oh and P.S: I'm so glad others feel that way about trading. If you min/max for cargo, remember that you had to "min" something - your survivability. I don't care about 4T slots or even 8T slots on a T9; but together, that's 710 extra HP, far more modified. Congrats, without visiting the armour overlord, you nearly doubled your base hull HP for substantially less than a twentieth of your cargo capacity.
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Deleted member 115407
D
Which is just bad design....
Goose4291
Banned
They could do a Naval Action and do an asset wipe.
However that community for the most part took it on the chin, whereas here I doubt it'd go down so well.
I'm just glad another avenue of the 'this isn't an exploit, its working as intended' cheating brigade use has now been shut down
Goose4291
Banned
I'm just glad another avenue of the 'this isn't an exploit, its working as intended' cheating brigade use has now been shut down
I've reset twice so far, if I ever feel bored I'll do it again. It's amazing how quickly you progress second or third time around from a sidey to A-rated DBS in a couple of hours (totally legit as well), as you know what pays well and most importantly you are a much better pilot. Surprising gankers is so much fun it's almost worth a reset on it's own.
But I really don't fancy doing any more rank missions, or the idea of someone else deciding it's reset time and I also like my first discovery tags.
So even though I'm happy to reset myself, I'd not support it or expect the majority of players to go along.
Goose4291
Banned
That's why it'd be an asset wipe rather than a full wipe.
Take away ships and credits, but keep ranks/exploration tags and faction reps.
Its a harsh way of going about it I know, but at this stage I don't see any other way to go about bringing it back to undoing the damage the credit exploits have done to the game.
I'd also argue for bringing back beta era rewards and fuel/repair/rearm costs, but then I signed up to this for the promise Iron Man mode held.
They'd never do this because they'd lose too many players. Hell, someone would probably start a class action suit demanding refunds.
I'm under the impression that this is just phase 1 of karma, and hopeful that following iterations include some non-CR related punishments.
I can't see any other way to make this system actually effective.
The Rules of this mini-game are pretty straightforward - stay aligned with the Escape Vector as it moves. Much like, when you're on the Interdicting Side, you keep aligned with the ship you're trying to interdict. Whoever does a better job wins the game. If it's the Interdictor, they'll pull said ship out of super cruise and has won the right to torment them. If it's the interdictee that wins, the interdictor is jarred into normal space and gets to endure an extended cooldown and a speck of hull damage. It's less complicated than tying a shoe.
But I do concur - if it is going badly, a submit-and-run is a valid option at that point, but it shouldn't be the go-to option. Sure, it takes a few seconds longer, but it will 100% prevent you from being fired upon if you win.
I'd probably say try to fight but if it looks like it's going their way, take it and throttle down.
Yep. People tend to forget about these, so they make for a nice, nasty surprise. And a mix of normal and shock mine launchers makes for an even nastier surprise.
How much of an impact do you truly believe rebuys have on murder hobo'ing?
None to very little.
Murder should carry serious consequences for a player. e.g.
Of course, after X time, these penalities should go.
On the flip side, there could be excellent PVP rewards for players who have to live with these penalties. e.g.
For 4 years, I loved PVP in WoW. Any PVE content I did was to improve my mage for PVP. But I cba with it in Elite; for me there is no incentive or reward.
None to very little.
Murder should carry serious consequences for a player. e.g.
- Can't insure / transfer ships
- Can't store modules
- New Ship / Module costs are *10
- Block access to all non-anarchy stations / outposts / bases etc
- Block access to "good" alignment ENG
Of course, after X time, these penalities should go.
On the flip side, there could be excellent PVP rewards for players who have to live with these penalties. e.g.
- Access to PVP exclusive bases / ships / modules
- Access to PVP ENG
- Access to PVP only content
For 4 years, I loved PVP in WoW. Any PVE content I did was to improve my mage for PVP. But I cba with it in Elite; for me there is no incentive or reward.
To answer the question of the thread title, very little.
I personally will be ramping up my innocent player killings to a full time status, regardless of ship or skill. It will be far less costly than normal PvP fights to the death anyway.
This new system isn't going to stop anything. If anything, PKers are going to find ways to use it against carebears. Good luck out there, and be careful what you wish for
I personally will be ramping up my innocent player killings to a full time status, regardless of ship or skill. It will be far less costly than normal PvP fights to the death anyway.
This new system isn't going to stop anything. If anything, PKers are going to find ways to use it against carebears. Good luck out there, and be careful what you wish for
If it applies to killing any clean ship regardless of human or not then it's fine. I think people utilize the suicidewinder far more for PVE play than they ever could do for pvp actions.
If it applies to just pvp, then it's going to be a basically pointless gesture. player on player interaction is vastly a minority activity in the game and hostile pvp even more so. The biggest exploiter of suicedwinders are people who are gaming the background simulation and that's where the impact needs to be felt. Your actions should have repercussions you care about when it's something "illegal". Allowing PVE players to suicidewinder away their crimes still would be a huge miss on Fdev's part.
carebears dont play in open ..they just complain about things they hear about going on in open and play up the magnitude of problematic pvp to further their agenda.
But i'm on board for getting rid of the suicidewinder for all criminals.
If it applies to just pvp, then it's going to be a basically pointless gesture. player on player interaction is vastly a minority activity in the game and hostile pvp even more so. The biggest exploiter of suicedwinders are people who are gaming the background simulation and that's where the impact needs to be felt. Your actions should have repercussions you care about when it's something "illegal". Allowing PVE players to suicidewinder away their crimes still would be a huge miss on Fdev's part.
carebears dont play in open ..they just complain about things they hear about going on in open and play up the magnitude of problematic pvp to further their agenda.
But i'm on board for getting rid of the suicidewinder for all criminals.
With the double rebuy as it is now in beta (although Sandro said it shouldn't be like that) it is more likely to make me a murder hobo.
I've only really been doing PVP for the past month or two. I've only done it at CG and only really go after other combat ships (I dont think I've ever killed a trade ship). It is not unusual for me to let other combat ships go if I get them to low health and they have started to try and run.
However, if I get in the situation where I know I'll have a double rebuy I will probably get my money's worth and kill everything I can.
I've never used the sidewinder exploit in PVP, because I am new at PVP everytime I head out I expect to die anyways. And by choice, because I am choosing to fight to the death.
I've only really been doing PVP for the past month or two. I've only done it at CG and only really go after other combat ships (I dont think I've ever killed a trade ship). It is not unusual for me to let other combat ships go if I get them to low health and they have started to try and run.
However, if I get in the situation where I know I'll have a double rebuy I will probably get my money's worth and kill everything I can.
I've never used the sidewinder exploit in PVP, because I am new at PVP everytime I head out I expect to die anyways. And by choice, because I am choosing to fight to the death.
IMO, it won't have much effect, and it will have loopholes that will end up being exploited. These people like to cause trouble, the more difficult FD makes it, the more they enjoy working around it. You can't change human behavior. FD is wasting their time trying to program out bad behavior, the only sure way to deal with it is remove Open as a gaming option. Problem solved.
No, I think you don't understand the situation. Today Sandro himself made it quite clear that griefing will be addressed by the karma system and not the increased rebuys. The new rebuy mechanic simply exists to fix an exploit.
Deleted member 115407
D
I seem to have missed much of the 'murder hobo'ing' and 'griefing'. Being in Western Australia I play well outside of the American and Eastern European time zones so I don't encounter that kind of "emergent gameplay".