In Open Play, is Killing Innocent CMDRs Fair?

[Goose4291]

All of which would sound a lot more believable if it wasn't, inevitably, followed by "Wahhh!!! Combat loggers are horrid!!!!"

If you can't see the difference between the losing in a game, and cheating in a game, there's no point discussing things with you.

I'd like to point out as well my responses have been in answer to people asking 'why' people might get so upset about combat logging, rather than my own stance. Which is that I dont like cheaters or exploiters, and dont want to share my limited game time experience with them.

 

[Minonian]

All of which would sound a lot more believable if it wasn't, inevitably, followed by "Wahhh!!! Combat loggers are horrid!!!!"

If all what he have to say when i'm stating the one whom committed an atrocity against other, cannot be his judge and surely can't tell what's right and wrong? To call me drugged, / under the influence of narcotics? Than he is seriously under handed...

For example? A judge criminal record must be spotless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrity

[video=youtube;o3bhQwY0KCY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bhQwY0KCY[/video]


Edit; Let me add one single word, and with it? Another layer.

Biased.

 

[ShimEnki]

Given that the inbound karma system would seem to take, from what Sandro has written, exception to the destruction of clean CMDRs....

Uh huh, yet still, its not yet coded to make killing clean cmdrs impossible as in other mmos where a dueling request must be accepted --IF one doesn't have auto duel accept turned off.

In other mmos IF you happen to wander into PVP land then you become auto flagged for player killing, which could be done here when one becomes "wanted'

But nope.

So...OP...kill at your hearts desire. Its a gruate place to donate blood aka bounties on ones head ye?

 

[Stealthie]

http://68.media.tumblr.com/9f9b5d27066fe7e244546e0d45bdd5a1/tumblr_okzfviJsXr1s74zi8o9_250.gif

If you can't see the difference between the losing in a game, and cheating in a game, there's no point discussing things with you.

You know, I could have bet my house that you'd respond with "But that's cheating!"

You know what a non-sequitur is, right?

Even if we ignore the issue of whether or not CLing via the menu IS actually cheating or not, you started off by saying "You shouldn't let it worry you cos it's just a game" and then, when I pointed out that everybody should take that advice (or not) you responded with a totally different argument.

Since we're on the subject, though, do you have any thoughts on how people who cheat should be dealt with?

 

[MTBFritz]

while I understand what you are trying to get at I have to say "open play" is a voluntary decision. If you want to play in open you abide to the connected rules and consequences and you are informed of both beforehand. So there really is no question to "fairness" in the end. If you find the chance to end up in front of peoples guns who need no reason to take shots at you or destroy your craft okay then theres no problem. If you get worried about this possibility simply play solo. Personally I like team and groupplay and hate PvP, especially competitive. Open Play in ED is not about PvP but its possible and as I had a few run-ins with people of the unfriendly personality I rather play single and enjoy the time I have at the time. "Thrill" of running into an individual who might destroy me or not at any time doesnt really add entertainment value to me anymore. It was different in my younger years. Now I just want to play in piece.

 

[Ozram]

while I understand what you are trying to get at I have to say "open play" is a voluntary decision. If you want to play in open you abide to the connected rules and consequences and you are informed of both beforehand. So there really is no question to "fairness" in the end. If you find the chance to end up in front of peoples guns who need no reason to take shots at you or destroy your craft okay then theres no problem. If you get worried about this possibility simply play solo. Personally I like team and groupplay and hate PvP, especially competitive. Open Play in ED is not about PvP but its possible and as I had a few run-ins with people of the unfriendly personality I rather play single and enjoy the time I have at the time. "Thrill" of running into an individual who might destroy me or not at any time doesnt really add entertainment value to me anymore. It was different in my younger years. Now I just want to play in piece.

If you enjoy coop but dislike pvp then go group. Seems solo will block you out of content you enjoy and Open will bring with it content you don't like.

 

[Minonian]

You know, I could have bet my house that you'd respond with "But that's cheating!"

You know what a non-sequitur is, right?

Even if we ignore the issue of whether or not CLing via the menu IS actually cheating or not, you started off by saying "You shouldn't let it worry you cos it's just a game" and then, when I pointed out that everybody should take that advice (or not) you responded with a totally different argument.

Since we're on the subject, though, do you have any thoughts on how people who cheat should be dealt with?

Cheating by definition means to break the rules in hope to get an advantage.
Now... As far i can tell, the game rules giving you a bailout, with a cost / probability of loss. This is not cheating, and no matter how hard they are trying to call it a sin, they just unable to do so.

Also? As far i can tell, i decide to whenever i want or not, to fight with human players. And this means although out of rules combat logging is a (dark)grey zone, but still next to impossble, to call it cheating, simply because the decision to pick up the fight, or not?

Is ours.

But of course they going to call it cheating, but with that, they are committing the crime of slander, and also they are going to place us in KOS list's but with that? They are committing the crime of frontier justice / lynch mobbing.

Edit; Also, Let's get back to the question of Biased-ment this is the inability to hold Impartial judgement, by taking up a neural stance. If you cannot do that sometimes against your own personal emotions? You can't be a judge, in the given question.

 

[ShimEnki]

An addendum to the C&P could be if it were coded in such a way like other successful mmos, that unwanted cmdrs are non collisionable, and unattackable unless they become wanted.

In compensation to PVPers who then could not just kill at will for whatever reason--"they" the FD galactic Gods could make it so that ALL wanted CMDRs name and location are identifiable on the galactic news feed AND
on the Galmap itself as a blinking light--(updated as often as the mission board is)---kinda like GTA5 has it when you are in the public lobby and currently in mission. That part of it in GTA 5 is nuts BUT only because they do not allow for solo and group play as ED allows. Major genuine applause for that again FD.

So, you PVP all that and a bag of chips-ers...can you handle all of us knowing where YOU are ? Hmm? Probably not and FD will not allow it anyways.

 

[Ozram]

An addendum to the C&P could be if it were coded in such a way like other successful mmos, that unwanted cmdrs are non collisionable, and unattackable unless they become wanted.

In compensation to PVPers who then could not just kill at will for whatever reason--"they" the FD galactic Gods could make it so that ALL wanted CMDRs name and location are identifiable on the galactic news feed AND
on the Galmap itself as a blinking light--(updated as often as the mission board is)---kinda like GTA5 has it when you are in the public lobby and currently in mission. That part of it in GTA 5 is nuts BUT only because they do not allow for solo and group play as ED allows. Major genuine applause for that again FD.

So, you PVP all that and a bag of chips-ers...can you handle all of us knowing where YOU are ? Hmm? Probably not and FD will not allow it anyways.

Meanwhile you're untargetable unless you earn yourself that 200 cr bounty for being sloppy at the Res? Yeah... nice sense of gameplay you got there :/
I think you'll find consequence is widely accepted by the PVP community. It's the rampant whingers who think Open is supposed to be safe from pvp unless expressily given permission with clauses and explanations who struggle with the concept (minmaxing for profits without any genuine defensive strategy and loadout).
I started off as someone who would strictly engage in pvp solely to protect traders from the gankers and as I got to know them I've slowly come around to liking them more as they complain a lot less.

 

[Stealthie]

....If you get worried about this possibility simply play solo....

Nope, sorry.

I understand the sentiment of most of what you say, and I agree with it.

When you're in a game that was advertised as "play your own way" and you're then saying "Play MY way or go and sit in the corner by yourself", I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

Ever.

Maybe it's FDev's fault for attempting to advertise ED as a diverse environment or maybe it's player's fault for expecting it to be true but that's what they sold and that's what we bought.
Of course, the likelihood of PvP should be present but it has to come with meaningful consequences for those who do it unlawfully - or do anything unlawful, in fact.

 

[Ozram]

Nope, sorry.

I understand the sentiment of most of what you say, and I agree with it.

When you're in a game that was advertised as "play your own way" and you're then saying "Play MY way or go and sit in the corner by yourself", I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

Ever.

Maybe it's FDev's fault for attempting to advertise ED as a diverse environment or maybe it's player's fault for expecting it to be true but that's what they sold and that's what we bought.
Of course, the likelihood of PvP should be present but it has to come with meaningful consequences for those who do it unlawfully - or do anything unlawful, in fact.

Thing is you can play your own way, but there are others out there as well, playing their way. Gotta adapt to that fact of the shared space.

 

[Stealthie]

Thing is you can play your own way, but there are others out there as well, playing their way. Gotta adapt to that fact of the shared space.

Oh, absolutely.

You don't do that by telling people who don't share your opinions to go elsewhere though.
And the flip-side of that is you should be prepared to to accept some compromises to your play-style in order to support other people's.

Quite how that happens, to the satisfaction of the majority of players, is anybody's guess though.

 

[Ozram]

Oh, absolutely.

You don't do that by telling people who don't share your opinions to go elsewhere though.
And the flip-side of that is you should be prepared to to accept some compromises to your play-style in order to support other people's.

Quite how that happens, to the satisfaction of the majority of players, is anybody's guess though.

Yeah the only time I'll suggest people try the other modes is in earnest. For example if a person truly loathes the thought of pvp but loves coop. That's where group excels so when I suggest it it's not out of spite but in order to be helpful.

 

[Minonian]

When you're in a game that was advertised as "play your own way" and you're then saying "Play MY way or go and sit in the corner by yourself", I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

Ever.

THIS!

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Nope, sorry.

I understand the sentiment of most of what you say, and I agree with it.

When you're in a game that was advertised as "play your own way" and you're then saying "Play MY way or go and sit in the corner by yourself", I'm afraid I can't agree with that.

Ever.

Maybe it's FDev's fault for attempting to advertise ED as a diverse environment or maybe it's player's fault for expecting it to be true but that's what they sold and that's what we bought.
Of course, the likelihood of PvP should be present but it has to come with meaningful consequences for those who do it unlawfully - or do anything unlawful, in fact.

JFK. Does someone need to cut through what words mean for you. OK I guess here goes - "play your own way within the rules that FD have set". You ain't entitled to anything, especially a message about why someone killed you or whether or not it was lawful.

One thing is for sure.

Not the likes of you.

When the ones whom committing a sin decide what he doing whenever is a sin or not? [weird]

You need to learn some reading comprehension. I don't get to decide what behavior is acceptable and neither do you. We both have to operate within the confines of the rules FD has set up. Keep the word sin out of it zealot.

 

[Robert Maynard]

OK I guess here goes - "play your own way within the rules that FD have set".

Exactly.

.... and if, for some reason, Frontier should decide to change the rules to discourage particular behaviours then that is, obviously, up to them....

 

[Stealthie]

JFK. Does someone need to cut through what words mean for you. OK I guess here goes - "play your own way within the rules that FD have set". You ain't entitled to anything, especially a message about why someone killed you or whether or not it was lawful.

JFK?

Spoiler

Beyond that, I'm quite happy to play within the rules FDev have applied.
That doesn't mean I lose the right to criticise people who I think are acting like tools, or offer opinions on how I think the game might be improved.
That's kind of the whole idea of a forum.

Which is why the whole "If you don't like it, play in Solo" thing is rather unnecessary and not a little obtuse.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Exactly.

.... and if, for some reason, Frontier should decide to change the rules to discourage particular behaviours then that is, obviously, up to them....

Yes indeed it is their decision however given the history of the game so far I wouldn't hold my breath for the consequences that a large portion of this forums population are pushing for. It's pretty telling that most of the "solutions" to this problem are one sided or short sighted. If this forums player base ever get exactly what they want then they get what they deserve.

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

JFK?

Spoiler

http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/John_F_Kennedy-H.jpeg

Beyond that, I'm quite happy to play within the rules FDev have applied.
That doesn't mean I lose the right to criticise people who I think are acting like tools, or offer opinions on how I think the game might be improved.
That's kind of the whole idea of a forum.

Which is why the whole "If you don't like it, play in Solo" thing is rather unnecessary.

Have I ever told you "go play in solo"? If I have I'm sorry. What I really meant is go play in PG or use the block feature. I suppose since you can criticize people you think are tools I can criticize the low end of the curve that blame their short comings on other players.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If this forums player base ever get exactly what they want then they get what they deserve.

Some of them want an Open-PvE mode - that'd be nice (and the possibility of additional Open groups (modes) where the rules can be different to suit different play-styles is contained in the design information published at the start of the Kickstarter)....