I always thought the difference between PVP and Griefing was being the winner or the loser.
The Difference Between PvP and "Griefing"
- Thread starter StarfireIX
- Start date
But I like PvE and would love to meet other players in the ED universe not intent on ruining my game, and you can't guarantee that private will prevent that either.
It's very very rare that you get any PVP in Mobius private group, if so they get kicked asap.
I don't bother with PVP in ED, for numerous reasons, thus Mobius is the place to be for me
That is fine, just don't complain if you get bobbed by a player
That is why I don't bother and play in Mobius as I get to interact with players and to be left alone winwin situation.
That is fine, just don't complain if you get bobbed by a player
I'm not that kind of person.
Sensitive subject.
- The act of attacking someone by interdiction and such is not griefing
- The act of only doing it simply "because" or "for fun" Can be seen as an act of griefing (mainly because it's far simpler to see a CMDR with a hollow square than an NPC, thus easier to target)
The problem is more so convoluted by the following in-game issues:
- Security rating is a joke and all systems might as well be called anarchy (this is the main issue, pilots should not have to worry when travelling in Medium to high security system but should worry in Low to Anarchy systems.)
- No APB is set on the wanted ship and stations do not report the crime IMMEDIATELY when detecting said ship
- Cops are damn ineffective
Then we have the lack of other factors that could improve the overall experience
- Add long term in-game social effect of murdering non-wanted individuals (reputation with factions friendly to the victims and positive rep with their enemy factions)
- Adding a crime and punishment that makes sense (ie, make mass murderers marginalized in society with blocked docking rights based on offences and security rating)
- Make anarchy systems actually MEAN something
But, what about those who DO want to have fun and shoot people in the face for fun?
- Give them a "Notoriety" as a fluctuating "Elite" rating based on the collected bounty and the amount of days NOT blown up.
- Notoriety is counted against Assassination missions and other criminal acts
- Give those with Notoriety access to black markets in high to medium security rating and remove it from others (how many regular people knows of criminal underground markets and shady dealings?)
- The act of attacking someone by interdiction and such is not griefing
- The act of only doing it simply "because" or "for fun" Can be seen as an act of griefing (mainly because it's far simpler to see a CMDR with a hollow square than an NPC, thus easier to target)
The problem is more so convoluted by the following in-game issues:
- Security rating is a joke and all systems might as well be called anarchy (this is the main issue, pilots should not have to worry when travelling in Medium to high security system but should worry in Low to Anarchy systems.)
- No APB is set on the wanted ship and stations do not report the crime IMMEDIATELY when detecting said ship
- Cops are damn ineffective
Then we have the lack of other factors that could improve the overall experience
- Add long term in-game social effect of murdering non-wanted individuals (reputation with factions friendly to the victims and positive rep with their enemy factions)
- Adding a crime and punishment that makes sense (ie, make mass murderers marginalized in society with blocked docking rights based on offences and security rating)
- Make anarchy systems actually MEAN something
But, what about those who DO want to have fun and shoot people in the face for fun?
- Give them a "Notoriety" as a fluctuating "Elite" rating based on the collected bounty and the amount of days NOT blown up.
- Notoriety is counted against Assassination missions and other criminal acts
- Give those with Notoriety access to black markets in high to medium security rating and remove it from others (how many regular people knows of criminal underground markets and shady dealings?)
Why not just split Open in to "Open PvP" and "Open PvE"? I know that is basically the situation now with Open and Mobius, but it took me a long time to accidently stumble across the Mobius group - having an official "Open PvE" option could potentially solve a lot of the issues (with very heavy penalties for PvP activity in the "Open PvE" option. You could even make PvP impossible in the PvE option - shooting/ramming a cmdr has no effect). Potentially, newbie pilots could have to earn access to the "Open PvP" by completing combat missions or something, or just by being a week or two old.
Option D - All of the above
Option D - All of the above
This topic basically pops up every time someone is murdered by a player, or reads a thread started by someone who has been recently murdered by a player, or reads a post, from someone who has read a thread, of someone one has been murdered by a player.
Eventually they turn in to a Hotel California spin off and get locked, then the Hotel California thread gets brought to page 1.
Then people read it, then start new threads about being murdered by a player.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
*Awaits the "and segregate the player base more?", And "people will still find a way to troll" responses*
In 3.....2......
/thread /issue
There is nothing more need to be said. There are solutions to the problems but noone is sorry if one can't statisfy thousands of people with different expectations at once. Noone said a solution to a problem is always convinient or statisfying. It solves the problem but doesn't come with extra goodies. I play open, I accept that I am subject to a gank. I paly private if I want to play with my friends and/or show them the game. I play solo if I need a landing pad or simply don't wanna do PvP. Even PvPers play solo from time to time for the exact same reasons others do as well: Currently no interest in PvP (or modeswitch hehe).
It's normal but I don't complain about an agreement I have signed. Period.
Choosing LAN over WLAn or deny downloads while playing is indeed a user's resposibility. Everything beyond your router and your IPS's servers is out of your control. However, if a user is informed about current issues from the ISP then the user should avoid playing games that require an internet connection for the time the errors occur.
If a user experiences an unexpected connection error without any warning then it's just bad luck in case it was in a moment of PvP. If a user DCs while docked in a station or in other non-dangerous scenarios then there is no penalty. However, if a player DCs while being in combat (and the game can recognize it, it prevents you from logging to the main menu for 15 seconds so it can detect danger as well) or in a neutron star cone or whatnot then it is counted as a combat log and penalties will occur.
Let them worry and moan, it's just forum noise.
Anyone sad enough to try to hunt you for your forum opinion sounds dumb enough to both present no threat and be incapable of finding you. In the highly unlikely event you meet one, you can always block them and the problems solved.
Apparently I got KOS listed for starting this thread : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ners-advice-on-dealing-with-griefing-(part-2) unfortunately they seem to be struggling somewhat to find and kill me.
I don't see that happening though... I imagine most Mobius players would migrate to the new Open PvE, as there would not really be a need anymore for the private group...?
Last edited:
I always wonder of my on anyone's KOS list.
Lol
I'm not easy to find, and even harder to kill.
Good luck to them.
Oh it won't, but certain groups *cough*murder hobos*cough* know that a fully supported Open PvE mode would be incredibly popular, and thus leave them with less
(I'd love an official Open PvE mode)
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
While your first sentence may be true, how many consumers actually have a clue whether they have decent kit or not? How many rely on their ISP's router, most of which are awful (if your ISP tells you to restart your router if you have issues, then you know you have a cheap router)? How many ISPs actually inform customers of issues before the event (and even then it'll only be a paragraph hidden on their website somewhere)?
But it's all irrelevant anyway. It's a game, and rigidly enforcing out-of-game "responsibilities" with in-game penalties is wrong. Especially when some people appear to be asking for these penalties to include bans.
Here we go yet again, and another PvPr looking to establish what the PvP status Quo should be.
All the definitions of 'griefing' in the world don't add up to squat when you're the guy in the trade ship being ganked by a wing of 3 kids in FDLs, lolling and screaming 'git gud'. That is not PvP, that is kids running riot because they can.
Just for transparency, I don't play in Open. The only time I use open is to raid the boards. Other than that I'll be found in Mobius. This way I get to choose my game play for the evening, not some shower of kids.
Now lets address PvP in E.D. PvP generally means Player versus Player, or group of players versus groups of players. In E.D PvP seems to mean, wing of 3 FDL/FAS <insert cheated ship> versus 1 player. We even have PvPr [sic] posting youtube videos of them killing a Novice! Wing of 3 versus 1 is not PvP its an "unwanted probe of the bottom" (Have to be careful in case I upset some snowflakes with bad language)
PvP is not Uber ship versus novice.
In relation to C&P it'll be a waste. Just as the PvPrs cheated with their god rolls, they'll find a way to cheat the C&P. Without thinking much I already see one major flaw in the proposed solution. We'll see how it pans out.
Then we come to PvE. Player versus Environment. In every MMO (E.D. is not an MMO) that offers choice, PvE has already been the dominant group. And so it is in E.D.
The fact is the only players that need 'open mode' is PvP. I guarantee, that if every PvE player played in one of the giant PvE groups, PvP would die a sudden death in E.D. because like it or hate it, when it comes to proper PvP on E.D. they wake out as soon as their shields drop. The only people they get to kill are the PvE type players with ships far under-equipped than the attacker.
if you want PvP to suceed in any meaningful way in E.D. you PvPrs [sic] need to 'git gud' and rethink your situation. You could do many things to help people and show them how to enjoy PvP. Run leagues. (small ships, medium ships, large ships) etc, best of the best, best newbie, best veteran. You have so many options.
As long as you run riot, wantonly killing players just for your jollies, you're on a losing slippery slope.
Personal opinion etc etc
All the definitions of 'griefing' in the world don't add up to squat when you're the guy in the trade ship being ganked by a wing of 3 kids in FDLs, lolling and screaming 'git gud'. That is not PvP, that is kids running riot because they can.
Just for transparency, I don't play in Open. The only time I use open is to raid the boards. Other than that I'll be found in Mobius. This way I get to choose my game play for the evening, not some shower of kids.
Now lets address PvP in E.D. PvP generally means Player versus Player, or group of players versus groups of players. In E.D PvP seems to mean, wing of 3 FDL/FAS <insert cheated ship> versus 1 player. We even have PvPr [sic] posting youtube videos of them killing a Novice! Wing of 3 versus 1 is not PvP its an "unwanted probe of the bottom" (Have to be careful in case I upset some snowflakes with bad language)
PvP is not Uber ship versus novice.
In relation to C&P it'll be a waste. Just as the PvPrs cheated with their god rolls, they'll find a way to cheat the C&P. Without thinking much I already see one major flaw in the proposed solution. We'll see how it pans out.
Then we come to PvE. Player versus Environment. In every MMO (E.D. is not an MMO) that offers choice, PvE has already been the dominant group. And so it is in E.D.
The fact is the only players that need 'open mode' is PvP. I guarantee, that if every PvE player played in one of the giant PvE groups, PvP would die a sudden death in E.D. because like it or hate it, when it comes to proper PvP on E.D. they wake out as soon as their shields drop. The only people they get to kill are the PvE type players with ships far under-equipped than the attacker.
if you want PvP to suceed in any meaningful way in E.D. you PvPrs [sic] need to 'git gud' and rethink your situation. You could do many things to help people and show them how to enjoy PvP. Run leagues. (small ships, medium ships, large ships) etc, best of the best, best newbie, best veteran. You have so many options.
As long as you run riot, wantonly killing players just for your jollies, you're on a losing slippery slope.
Personal opinion etc etc
To grief or not to grief?
OPEN was called the ALL GROUP, back in the DDF when Frontier unveiled their concept of the new to come ELITE and introduced basic game mechanic to us Founders. So the ALL GROUP contains PVE and PVP equally and deliberately.
Why would Frontier do this?
If you follow me, they purposely create emergent gameplay and drama this way I think. Complex conflicting motivations, inside the realm of (multiplayer)ELITE, seems to be a fundament part of the ALL GROUP. Consensus and peacefull PVP is provided by
joining like minded individuals, in private Groups, intentionally provided for this purpose. So in short, if you shy away from conflict, I encourage you to play with friends, eventually leaving the ALL GROUP entirely.
What is Griefing? When am I being griefed, when not?
There are epistemological aspects of that knowledge or experiences; What do I know, what do I not know? Since we can't see purpose and or intentions of fellow commanders, its hard to tell.
Like it or not, playing in OPEN, is admitting PVP and the danger of harassment coming eventually along with it.
Here is hope, provided the time for further development, we'll see a working C&P emerging online.
I for one, accept the possibility to be intercepted, shot at, or killed.
Fly safe Commanders, check six!
OPEN was called the ALL GROUP, back in the DDF when Frontier unveiled their concept of the new to come ELITE and introduced basic game mechanic to us Founders. So the ALL GROUP contains PVE and PVP equally and deliberately.
Why would Frontier do this?
If you follow me, they purposely create emergent gameplay and drama this way I think. Complex conflicting motivations, inside the realm of (multiplayer)ELITE, seems to be a fundament part of the ALL GROUP. Consensus and peacefull PVP is provided by
joining like minded individuals, in private Groups, intentionally provided for this purpose. So in short, if you shy away from conflict, I encourage you to play with friends, eventually leaving the ALL GROUP entirely.
What is Griefing? When am I being griefed, when not?
There are epistemological aspects of that knowledge or experiences; What do I know, what do I not know? Since we can't see purpose and or intentions of fellow commanders, its hard to tell.
Like it or not, playing in OPEN, is admitting PVP and the danger of harassment coming eventually along with it.
Here is hope, provided the time for further development, we'll see a working C&P emerging online.
I for one, accept the possibility to be intercepted, shot at, or killed.
Fly safe Commanders, check six!
Just because you pay for something doesn't mean it is top notch quality. it's like I buy Elite and expect it to work. Multicrew or CQC always tend to be bug free and of hig hquality just as NPCs and engineer effects.
Reality != Expectations. I fix my internet myself if it doesn#t work to the best extend and in 75% of the cases I can fix it myself. usually the dudes at the ISP are too incompetent and low paid to do it themselves. Same for Saitek I fixed my HOTAS now a dozen tiems myself even though I could claim warranty. And the best thing, formally I should have broken ym warranty right a dozen times whe nI repaired it myself too and yet they still grant me the warranty.
Just becuase you pay for something doesn't mean it's of high quality.
I haven't done a lot of pvp because either I die too quick or I don't see anyone, also some I win.
pvp to me is a cmdr interdicts me. we drop out he opens fire. is not in the spirit of the game
if cmdr sends a message before opening fire and lets me know what he/she wants then this is good. my opinion can be changed if it is wrong
pvp to me is a cmdr interdicts me. we drop out he opens fire. is not in the spirit of the game
if cmdr sends a message before opening fire and lets me know what he/she wants then this is good. my opinion can be changed if it is wrong
What? You mean you've opened up Telephone cabinets on the street and rewired them? Broken into the exchange and replaced a faulty DLSLAM? Hacked into your ISP and adjusted an incorrectly set bandwidth limit?