Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

That they would indeed seem to have done - however they were kind enough to leave the doors open to Solo and Private Groups - for those whose PvP-tolerance isn't sufficient to want to bother playing in Open.

But they still allow people to attack through a private group. Even though the people left the private group so they wouldn't be attacked.

I think its the whole premise of the OPEN SOLO AND PRIVATE discussions. Its been going on for far to long its turned into a dump thread so people dont have to worry about it. And its a shame is hasn't been addressed yet.

People dont want to balance something if they are taking advantage of it. See this video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jCC13prXo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDWW7Hk6sak
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

These guys clearly know what they are doing.

This comes down to a time vs time scenario. There is no balance here. If these actions were only available in open. It would be costly to him. And he knows it.

Just like everyone else arguing about the Open Solo and Private problems. There is no risk for his reward. He gets to effect others in a skill boosted cutter taking out all the cops needed. Lately hes been getting wanted within colonia by other factions. And attacking PA ships in other systems. Then coming to the main system, getting interdicted by the police or clean PA ships because of his negative influence. Turning the police ships into wanted ships because hes clean in that system. Hes able to collect a bounty of Wanted police NPCS, an endless supply.

Now the only way to combat that is to use his same exploit hes using and then dump the bountys in specific area's. Which means we would have to break the pact and go to war with others to fight back.

On top of all of that, No one is going to use the BGS or Powerplay until we can see direct effects. And have proper balancing being able to see each other.

Yes I am aware there are other console games connected to the BGS, But they can be done in open as well. We have Chapters in PS4 and Xbox.

But we arent about abusing private and solo just to get an edge over someone else. Especially in the manner the dude above is going about doing it.

There really are balancing issues here. And they need to be addressed.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

The modes won't be restricted, been there from the start and were advertised as such just as much as the 'cut throat galaxy'; so if you don't like it you shouldn't of bought it...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The modes won't be restricted, been there from the start and were advertised as such just as much as the 'cut throat galaxy'; so if you don't like it you shouldn't of bought it...

Player based factions were not. The game is evolving. And some of the features are behind. Otherswise 4-5 different threads about the same subject still wouldn't be going strong.

And until its balanced. All the old players can leave because they gave up. And new players will come along and say HEY! Somethings BUCKY Around here!

Its a pretty straight forward balancing issue.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Player based factions were not. The game is evolving. And some of the features are behind. Otherswise 4-5 different threads about the same subject still wouldn't be going strong.

And until its balanced. All the old players can leave because they gave up. And new players will come along and say HEY! Somethings BUCKY Around here!

Its a pretty straight forward balancing issue.

Only in your opinion, a lot of us are happy with it thanks, but feel free to keep complaining, I'm sure you'll get a sympathetic ear.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Of course people are happy with it.

They get to effect others while not being directly effected themselves. No Risk High Reward.

Its not only my opinion. These threads were around long before I was around.

Seems like facts are hard to swallow around here.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Of course people are happy with it.

Indeed - Frontier have implemented the single shared galaxy state as they described it in the design information well over four and a half years ago.

They get to effect others while not being directly effected themselves. No Risk High Reward.

By design. All players experience and affect the single shared galaxy state.

Its not only my opinion. These threads were around long before I was around.

Yup - from the very start - and Frontier have stood by their design from the very beginning. They designed, developed and launched the game with this core feature intact.

Seems like facts are hard to swallow around here.

Indeed. That would seem to be why these threads just keep on going....

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Indeed - Frontier have implemented the single shared galaxy state as they described it in the design information well over four and a half years ago.



By design. All players experience and affect the single shared galaxy state.



Yup - from the very start - and Frontier have stood by their design from the very beginning. They designed, developed and launched the game with this core feature intact.



Indeed. That would seem to be why these threads just keep on going....

So everything I said here is just fine and dandy eh?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-California?p=5889914&viewfull=1#post5889914

And if that really is the case. Why dont they step up and say something instead of letting these threads continue on and on. They are obviously up for a reason.

And there are certainly some concerns about it Even on their end from the few conversations ive had with support.

So I can promise somethings a brewing or they would have said something by now. Its only a matter of time.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So everything I said here is just fine and dandy eh?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-California?p=5889914&viewfull=1#post5889914

And if that really is the case. Why dont they step up and say something instead of letting these threads continue on and on. They are obviously up for a reason.

And there are certainly some concerns about it Even on their end from the few conversations ive had with support.

So I can promise somethings a brewing or they would have said something by now. Its only a matter of time.

Regarding conversations with support - it would be interesting to know what they actually said rather than leaving it hanging.

As to something brewing - we'll see - Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of the player-base do not get involved in PvP - I doubt that they would go out of their way to annoy them.

Frontier have commented a few times now on the three modes and the single shared galaxy state - if you dig through this thread you'll find the quotes.

Some time ago, Sandro brandished a hand grenade regarding a possible bonus for Powerplay in Open - when asked a while later if the pin had been pulled he advised that it had not and that there were no plans to.

 

[Mohrgan]

An opinion being common doesn't make it right. Open is not the benchmark of Elite play. It's just where you go for PvP.

If you were to investigate Jokey's wall of text, you will find that FD have said plenty, over time, about the modes. The gist of it is: There are three modes, get used to it. Anyone in open can fight back against something happening in a PG simply by applying themselves to the function of the BGS, rather than attempting to put direct conflict as the only measure. Expand your vision, beyond your preference and leave everyone to play the game as they like.

FD says nothing, when they have no plans for change, not when they are developing new mechanics. Reference the multiple conversations, started by Sandro, about improvements to the C&P system, and the addition of a Notoriety System. Your notion on what FD's silence means seems dead wrong to me. Play your game, and let others play theirs. We'll all be happier.

 

[CMDR pollycough]

FD doesn't usually comment on any of these topics other than the usual,,,,
"Working as intended"

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Regarding conversations with support - it would be interesting to know what they actually said rather than leaving it hanging.

As to something brewing - we'll see - Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of the player-base do not get involved in PvP - I doubt that they would go out of their way to annoy them.

Frontier have commented a few times now on the three modes and the single shared galaxy state - if you dig through this thread you'll find the quotes.

Some time ago, Sandro brandished a hand grenade regarding a possible bonus for Powerplay in Open - when asked a while later if the pin had been pulled he advised that it had not and that there were no plans to.

Id rather not throw specific support members under the bus to be attacked. But there was talk about reducing influence rates on solo and private modes and how that could be an option.

They could still have an influence and play the game. But are rewarded for their risks. Everyone knows its a lot more riskier to play in Open than it is in Solo or Private. If it wasnt. The first comment in every thread about someone getting blown up wouldnt be, "hey join mobius" "No risk of getting blown up there!", Thats usually not what they say its usually paired with name calling.

No one has to play in open to enjoy this game. You can get the same rewards in private and solo. And you never have to risk being killed. Why would anyone in their right mind play in open, if all its going to be is a hassle when you can accomplish everything else in this game without stepping foot in it. And you'll never have to worry about them MEAN OL GRIEFERS!

However, they added things into the game like the grom missile, Reverb cascade torpedoes and more. And now the Crime and Punishment system. If they didnt want this interaction they would have simply turned it off. And they wouldnt be putting time into PVP mechanics.

They balance the game around PVP mechanics. This is not Diablo3 where you can clear an instance in 5 seconds because you dont need to balance around PVE.

We can see that with NPCs. They are nothing but a fly on the wall.

The learning curve for open is much harder than the learning curve is solo and private.

And the real PVERS that look to login shoot some space ships or go exploring dont care about the BGS and how it effects others. They could honestly care less. But the people that knowingly attack others behind the safety wall take advantage of it. And they know they cant be touched or stopped. And people win wars based of time/exploits and no risk. All reward. NPCS arent a risk.

 

[thirstyfish]

So everything I said here is just fine and dandy eh?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-California?p=5889914&viewfull=1#post5889914

And if that really is the case. Why dont they step up and say something instead of letting these threads continue on and on. They are obviously up for a reason.

And there are certainly some concerns about it Even on their end from the few conversations ive had with support.

So I can promise somethings a brewing or they would have said something by now. Its only a matter of time.

This thread was started by a volunteer mod (not an FD employee) in order to declutter the forum a bit. The mode debate pops up a lot, and there is no need to have 5 or 6 threads about the same thing. Hence the threadnaught.

The modes were a part of the KS campaign, and getting rid of them is bad business. And consider how the multiplayer in this game works. As it currently stands, anyone can turn open mode into solo mode by just tweaking the settings on their routers. It isn't hard, just not commonly known. Before you say "switch to client-server architecture for everything," I'll let you come up with the costs involved in that, and feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

Additionally, BGS manipulation can be countered by simply manipulating the BGS. Not difficult, there is a thread on the forums that explains the BGS. And the BGS doesn't care about PvP, so mode choice is irrelevant. Someone is killing system authority ships? then just do some bounty hunting, trade, turn in exploration data, missions, or just about anything.

Edit:
Everyone works the BGS, its how you get good missions, its how you get rank with the fed and imps, its how you can push a system into a boom state and get really juicy mission. Everyone does it to a degree. Now, any one player isn't going to do much other than raise their rep with a faction and get good missions, but that is still working the BGS.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

This thread was started by a volunteer mod (not an FD employee) in order to declutter the forum a bit. The mode debate pops up a lot, and there is no need to have 5 or 6 threads about the same thing. Hence the threadnaught.

The modes were a part of the KS campaign, and getting rid of them is bad business. And consider how the multiplayer in this game works. As it currently stands, anyone can turn open mode into solo mode by just tweaking the settings on their routers. It isn't hard, just not commonly known. Before you say "switch to client-server architecture for everything," I'll let you come up with the costs involved in that, and feel free to put your money where your mouth is.

Additionally, BGS manipulation can be countered by simply manipulating the BGS. Not difficult, there is a thread on the forums that explains the BGS. And the BGS doesn't care about PvP, so mode choice is irrelevant. Someone is killing system authority ships? then just do some bounty hunting, trade, turn in exploration data, missions, or just about anything.

im completely aware with how the BGS works. There is not counter to the BGS other than TIME SPENT. People shouldnt be able to win a war because they have more time than you.

Just like silent running there should be multiple counters.

Attacking people through the BGS, especially exploited like I said in that thread is very one sided.

People wonder why powerplay is dead. Its because people cant directly effect each other. There is no one there to turn the gears of war. Instead its being used a 1 month sign up for a module, Then on to the next.

Sure thats how the game started out with that kickstarter program. But the game is evolving. Player factions didnt exist then. This cause a major uproar for the people participating in it. Especially Colonia.

So while, I have no problems with Solo and private modes existing. There needs to be some barriers as to what you can do in them to effect others. I mean people left open so they wouldn't get shot right? I or my player faction dont have the choice to leave so we arent impacted.

This is called having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Please keep us updated with your crusade and the progress it makes.

 

[Mohrgan]

Id rather not throw specific support members under the bus to be attacked. But there was talk about reducing influence rates on solo and private modes and how that could be an option.

<snipped for brevity>

And the real PVERS that look to login shoot some space ships or go exploring dont care about the BGS and how it effects others. They could honestly care less. But the people that knowingly attack others behind the safety wall take advantage of it. And they know they cant be touched or stopped. And people win wars based of time/exploits and no risk. All reward. NPCS arent a risk.

The only thing a player can do to another player from Solo, is work the BGS. Anyone can work the BGS from open/Solo/PG's so there is no hiding. It's right there in front of you. And, PvP does squat all, for or against the BGS. It has no effect at all. With that, if real PvP'ers don't care about the BGS, why do we have to hear, over and over again, how people playing from a PG is unfair. Does that nonsense come from the fake PvP'ers? Unfair v. Don't Care.... It's a wash. This argument has always just been a jinned up controversy that has been discredited long ago.

Just stop worrying about what others are doing, and concentrate on your interests.

P.S. People with more time always do better in Games, than those who can invest less. Not just in Elite. Just think of the time spent on getting g5 Mods all over the ship. Apply that time to the BGS, and no player group could be swamped from Solo. Look past the PvP and recognize how the game actually works. The Modes were part of the game just as long as PvP has been. Tunnel vision serve no good purpose.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Figured I'd stop by and say 'git gud' since this mess is still going.

Anyone changed their minds yet?

No?

Didnt think so.

 

[Kruger]

Id rather not throw specific support members under the bus to be attacked. But there was talk about reducing influence rates on solo and private modes and how that could be an option.

They could still have an influence and play the game. But are rewarded for their risks. Everyone knows its a lot more riskier to play in Open than it is in Solo or Private. If it wasnt. The first comment in every thread about someone getting blown up wouldnt be, "hey join mobius" "No risk of getting blown up there!", Thats usually not what they say its usually paired with name calling.

No one has to play in open to enjoy this game. You can get the same rewards in private and solo. And you never have to risk being killed. Why would anyone in their right mind play in open, if all its going to be is a hassle when you can accomplish everything else in this game without stepping foot in it. And you'll never have to worry about them MEAN OL GRIEFERS!

However, they added things into the game like the grom missile, Reverb cascade torpedoes and more. And now the Crime and Punishment system. If they didnt want this interaction they would have simply turned it off. And they wouldnt be putting time into PVP mechanics.

They balance the game around PVP mechanics. This is not Diablo3 where you can clear an instance in 5 seconds because you dont need to balance around PVE.

We can see that with NPCs. They are nothing but a fly on the wall.

The learning curve for open is much harder than the learning curve is solo and private.

And the real PVERS that look to login shoot some space ships or go exploring dont care about the BGS and how it effects others. They could honestly care less. But the people that knowingly attack others behind the safety wall take advantage of it. And they know they cant be touched or stopped. And people win wars based of time/exploits and no risk. All reward. NPCS arent a risk.

You can't just give Open better rewards because there are people out there that don't have access to a very good connection, such as myself when I deploy to the middle east. Why should my game experience be hampered just because internet in Turkey or Al Udeid is potatoes? It's not like I have a choice in the matter.

Also, again, if you incentivize Open, what's to stop people from configuring their routers to keep them from seeing other players, so they still get all the bonuses of Open without the risk. There's no good way around this other than leaving the modes be as they are. Some balancing wouldn't go amiss, sure. Might bring some people back to Open, but adding increased rewards for playing in Open isn't how to fix the issue.

 

[sovapid]

A player can be a carebear and a murderhobo at the same time.

Well, maybe not at the exact same time.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

The only thing a player can do to another player from Solo, is work the BGS. Anyone can work the BGS from open/Solo/PG's so there is no hiding. It's right there in front of you. And, PvP does squat all, for or against the BGS. It has no effect at all. With that, if real PvP'ers don't care about the BGS, why do we have to hear, over and over again, how people playing from a PG is unfair. Does that nonsense come from the fake PvP'ers? Unfair v. Don't Care.... It's a wash. This argument has always just been a jinned up controversy that has been discredited long ago.

Just stop worrying about what others are doing, and concentrate on your interests.

For the most part thats what I do. But thats not what this is about.

People want to play a game. People want to have context of why they are getting shot. People want to participate in powerplay instead of jumping from one group to the next.

And then you have guys attacking My BGS systems, when they dont have a system to retaliate against. And if you could retaliate you cant even seen them. And what, am I supposed to call off from work or school because they has more time than others?

But hey its not happening to you. So dont worry about it eh? People left open so they couldnt be effected. But you cant leave the BGS and Player factions.

Our player group does try to take part in every aspect of the game. PVP, BGS, Powerplay and much much more. But people are starting to see its imbalances just like others have before them.

Its okay to blaze your own trail, as long as it benefits the people taking advantage of the system. If this is the case, they would have removed OPEN all together and they wouldnt be balancing the game around PVP aspects, see heatsinks, heat metas and healing beams.

They want open to be fruitful. But you have to make changes to solo and private before they are. Im not saying they should go away. All im saying is some actions should be restricted to open only. All PVP activities. And that includes attacking another players faction.

Thats not too much to ask. Everyone and everything else is perfectly fine doing whatever within the confines of their private group or PVE server.

I should know I played on a WoW PVE server for years and I could give a crap about someone getting ganked on a PVP server.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Please read the entirety of this thread and the ones before it; you'll find it full of people absolutely convinced it needed to/was going to change; yet here we are...