Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

[Mohrgan]

Which is why this thread exists for years before I got here.

The games evolved since the kick starter and all that. Now we have player factions to duke it out with. But the balancing is bad. Aks you boys in the fuel rats about the BGS terrorist in colonia. And how hes creating faction wars in multiple systems making people fight against each other. Then get back to me

Player Factions are no different than, general factions to the game. Player Groups are included in the game through the BGS on purpose. PG's cannot control who supports them, or who opposes them. They are, in effect, just some color in the game. A rally point for friends. I ran with a PG for a long time. When I moved on, I chose a new faction, and my gaming carried on as before, just in a different system. My favored faction's influence goes up and down as my effort waxes and wanes.

Don't be afraid of that scary Commander in the video. You can oppose any effort against your faction, without ever facing them in direct combat. You will be more effective if you do too.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Again, hes pvping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo Plain and simple. Hes attacing a player based faction with intent. Just because hes not directly shooting at another player. Does not mean hes not pvping.

Stop.

I played the action house against others in world of warcraft. Got some pretty dank nasty messages from it too. But I guess thats not PVPing either eh?

 

[thirstyfish]

Again, hes pvping https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo Plain and simple. Hes attacing a player based faction with intent. Just because hes not directly shooting at another player. Does not mean hes not pvping.

Stop.

No such thing as a "player based faction." Merely factions that have been started by players (most of these are homages to large player groups that exist outside of the game). Said faction is then populated ENTIRELY by NPCs, and thus are part of the environment. By definition he is PvEing. Both you and him seem to have the same misunderstanding about minor factions.

 

[thirstyfish]

I played the action house against others in world of warcraft. Got some pretty dank nasty messages from it too. But I guess thats not PVPing either eh?

Nope. Did you harm them in any fashion? Has this guy harmed you? Have you lost credits due to this guy (as in, has he sent you to the rebuy screen?)? Has your ship been damaged by this guy? No? Then he hasn't done PvP against you, or anyone.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Player Factions are no different than, general factions to the game. Player Groups are included in the game through the BGS on purpose. PG's cannot control who supports them, or who opposes them. They are, in effect, just some color in the game. A rally point for friends. I ran with a PG for a long time. When I moved on, I chose a new faction, and my gaming carried on as before, just in a different system. My favored faction's influence goes up and down as my effort waxes and wanes.

Don't be afraid of that scary Commander in the video. You can oppose any effort against your faction, without ever facing them in direct combat. You will be more effective if you do too.

Im not afraid of him by any means. If anything hes afraid of me. He has 8 billion in the bank and wouldnt even have a 1v1. I mean if hes attacking us. Then why not right? Whats 1 rebuy out of 8 mil. The guy is knowingly using an exploit and hes knowingly attacking another player group. For over 2 months now. Its PVP. No matter how you dice it.

And you shouldnt have to be on permanent disability, call off work or school just to keep up with his time frame.

Right now we have Mobius, fuel rats and many others helping our faction out in colonia because everyone wants to help each other grow. But hes sending everyone into war using the exploits with the poilce and collecting bounties off them.

And there is really now way to keep up with an endless supply bounties flodding an instance.

So not only is there imbalance here. but an exploit as well.

Again, in the end. No one wants private and solo to go away. Just balance the PVP end of it. Which is attacking another players faction. Everything else stays the same. People left open because of murderhobos. But they dont have any problems with attacking others still with no risk. Cause they are afraid to get "griefed and ganked" For attacking another player group.

The guy literally says it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

He and everyone else here knows thats whats going on and why this thread exists. If it was never a problem. This thread would have never existed. And that guy proves that point.

Nope. Did you harm them in any fashion? Has this guy harmed you? Have you lost credits due to this guy (as in, has he sent you to the rebuy screen?)? Has your ship been damaged by this guy? No? Then he hasn't done PvP against you, or anyone.

Yeah hes attacked our player faction. hes harmed our player faction with no risk and all reward. Hes hurt a group of people. not just one guy. Lots of them.

 

[Kruger]

No such thing as a "player based faction." Merely factions that have been started by players (most of these are homages to large player groups that exist outside of the game). Said faction is then populated ENTIRELY by NPCs, and thus are part of the environment. By definition he is PvEing. Both you and him seem to have the same misunderstanding about minor factions.

Also, you seem to be getting caught up on the whole "Player Faction" term. It doesn't mean that players are part of it, just that it was created BY a player. Despite being a "Player Faction" it is entirely comprised of NPCs which fall under the Environment in PvE, like every other faction in the game.

You and I seem to be in tune here. :3

This debate is fun. Don't think I've ever been this invested in a discussion in this thread.

 

[Kruger]

Im not afraid of him by any means. If anything hes afraid of me. He has 8 billion in the bank and wouldnt even have a 1v1. I mean if hes attacking us. Then why not right? Whats 1 rebuy out of 8 mil. The guy is knowingly using an exploit and hes knowingly attacking another player group. For over 2 months now. Its PVP. No matter how you dice it.

And you shouldnt have to be on permanent disability, call off work or school just to keep up with his time frame.

Right now we have Mobius, fuel rats and many others helping our faction out in colonia because everyone wants to help each other grow. But hes sending everyone into war using the exploits with the poilce and collecting bounties off them.

And there is really now way to keep up with an endless supply bounties flodding an instance.

So not only is there imbalance here. but an exploit as well.

Again, in the end. No one wants private and solo to go away. Just balance the PVP end of it. Which is attacking another players faction. Everything else stays the same. People left open because of murderhobos. But they dont have any problems with attacking others still with no risk. Cause they are afraid to get "griefed and ganked" For attacking another player group.

The guy literally says it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

He and everyone else here knows thats whats going on and why this thread exists. If it was never a problem. This thread would have never existed. And that guy proves that point.



Yeah hes attacked our player faction. hes harmed our player faction with no risk and all reward. Hes hurt a group of people. not just one guy. Lots of them.

It's not an exploit if it's a core game mechanic working as intended.

How many times do we have to tell you that the BGS is not PvP. There's no DIRECT player interaction which is what PvP is AND "Player Factions" are nothing more than a faction created BY a player but comprised of nothing but NPCs. Just.Like.Every.Other.Faction.

 

[Mohrgan]

Im not afraid of him by any means. If anything hes afraid of me. He has 8 billion in the bank and wouldnt even have a 1v1. I mean if hes attacking us. Then why not right? Whats 1 rebuy out of 8 mil. The guy is knowingly using an exploit and hes knowingly attacking another player group. For over 2 months now. Its PVP. No matter how you dice it.

And you shouldnt have to be on permanent disability, call off work or school just to keep up with his time frame.

Right now we have Mobius, fuel rats and many others helping our faction out in colonia because everyone wants to help each other grow. But hes sending everyone into war using the exploits with the poilce and collecting bounties off them.

And there is really now way to keep up with an endless supply bounties flodding an instance.

So not only is there imbalance here. but an exploit as well.

Again, in the end. No one wants private and solo to go away. Just balance the PVP end of it. Which is attacking another players faction. Everything else stays the same. People left open because of murderhobos. But they dont have any problems with attacking others still with no risk. Cause they are afraid to get "griefed and ganked" For attacking another player group.

The guy literally says it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

He and everyone else here knows thats whats going on and why this thread exists. If it was never a problem. This thread would have never existed. And that guy proves that point.



Yeah hes attacked our player faction. hes harmed our player faction with no risk and all reward. Hes hurt a group of people. not just one guy. Lots of them.

Any harm he's done, you can just as effectively counter. Period. The BGS grants equal access for this very reason. I'm just going to throw this out there: Get BGS Gud. If you, and all of that help, can't overcome one iCutter, your faction may well be doomed.

 

[thirstyfish]

Im not afraid of him by any means. If anything hes afraid of me. He has 8 billion in the bank and wouldnt even have a 1v1. I mean if hes attacking us. Then why not right? Whats 1 rebuy out of 8 mil. The guy is knowingly using an exploit and hes knowingly attacking another player group. For over 2 months now. Its PVP. No matter how you dice it.

And you shouldnt have to be on permanent disability, call off work or school just to keep up with his time frame.

Right now we have Mobius, fuel rats and many others helping our faction out in colonia because everyone wants to help each other grow. But hes sending everyone into war using the exploits with the poilce and collecting bounties off them.

And there is really now way to keep up with an endless supply bounties flodding an instance.

So not only is there imbalance here. but an exploit as well.

Again, in the end. No one wants private and solo to go away. Just balance the PVP end of it. Which is attacking another players faction. Everything else stays the same. People left open because of murderhobos. But they dont have any problems with attacking others still with no risk. Cause they are afraid to get "griefed and ganked" For attacking another player group.

The guy literally says it here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

He and everyone else here knows thats whats going on and why this thread exists. If it was never a problem. This thread would have never existed. And that guy proves that point.



Yeah hes attacked our player faction. hes harmed our player faction with no risk and all reward. Hes hurt a group of people. not just one guy. Lots of them.

Show me a loss of credits, show me a rebuy screen. Otherwise, it can't be PvP, by definition. PvP in this game is always direct interaction. Otherwise, it is just BGS work, which is something everyone does, intentionally or otherwise. Just because the guy said it doesn't mean that he's right, or that you're right. This isn't PvP.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It's not an exploit if it's a core game mechanic working as intended.

How many times do we have to tell you that the BGS is not PvP. There's no DIRECT player interaction which is what PvP is AND "Player Factions" are nothing more than a faction created BY a player but comprised of nothing but NPCs.

Then why is colonia helping each other grow instead of fighting against each other through the BGS. Which is totally doable cause they are sitting on a truce with everyone involved right now.

ITS PVP Dude. Like it or not.

 

[TartanDragon]

ITS PVP Dude. Like it or not.

Gonna agree, kinda, here.

Indirect PvP through the collection of PvE trophies. (A much wiser man than me coined that phrase.)

 

[Kruger]

Then why is colonia helping each other grow instead of fighting against each other through the BGS. Which is totally doable cause they are sitting on a truce with everyone involved right now.

ITS PVP Dude. Like it or not.

Um, what?

Helping each other grow instead of fighting isn't PvP. Perhaps you worded it wrong, but that sounds like cooperation to me.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Show me a loss of credits, show me a rebuy screen. Otherwise, it can't be PvP, by definition. PvP in this game is always direct interaction. Otherwise, it is just BGS work, which is something everyone does, intentionally or otherwise. Just because the guy said it doesn't mean that he's right, or that you're right. This isn't PvP.

Hes attacking a player faction. End of story.

He could be attacking a NPC faction. hes not doing that. Hes deliberately attacking a player group. Knowingly attacking it mind you. Heres another video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jCC13prXo

Certainly sounds like PVP to me? He knows what hes doing. You know what hes doing. FDEV more importantly knows what hes doing. And hes proving the point of why this BGS thread exists in the first place. Other wise. Why are we here?

Theres an obvious issue like it or not. Or this thread wouldn't be as big as it is.

Im going to leave now. Have fun guys.

 

[thirstyfish]

Then why is colonia helping each other grow instead of fighting against each other through the BGS. Which is totally doable cause they are sitting on a truce with everyone involved right now.

ITS PVP Dude. Like it or not.

Its not PvP just because you keep repeating it. Saying something over and over again won't make it true. Both you and he show a lack of understanding some fundamental game mechanics.

And anything his one cutter can do, anyone can counter. In the case of bounty hunting, you don't even need a cutter. An FDL python, viper, cobra, or pretty much any ship should be able to counter with bounty hunting.

Player factions are not controlled by players, they are controlled by the BGS, which players can influence. And all players can influence the BGS in equal measure. Neither of you have to be in open mode for you to oppose him.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Um, what?

Helping each other grow instead of fighting isn't PvP. Perhaps you worded it wrong, but that sounds like cooperation to me.

You're right. But you purposefully missed the point. Look at what could be happening right now. Fighting over territory *GASP* . Just like POWERPLAY was supposed to be.

But instead they are helping each other out which is cool. But it wont last forever

 

[Kruger]

Its not PvP just because you keep repeating it. Saying something over and over again won't make it true. Both you and he show a lack of understanding some fundamental game mechanics.

And anything his one cutter can do, anyone can counter. In the case of bounty hunting, you don't even need a cutter. An FDL python, viper, cobra, or pretty much any ship should be able to counter with bounty hunting.

Player factions are not controlled by players, they are controlled by the BGS, which players can influence. And all players can influence the BGS in equal measure. Neither of you have to be in open mode for you to oppose him.

It's a shame I can't rep you again. Seems he's given up though. Shame. I was enjoying that.

EDIT: Guess he hasn't left.

 

[thirstyfish]

Hes attacking a player faction. End of story.

He could be attacking a NPC faction. hes not doing that. Hes deliberately attacking a player group. Knowingly attacking it mind you. Heres another video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3jCC13prXo

Certainly sounds like PVP to me? He knows what hes doing. You know what hes doing. FDEV more importantly knows what hes doing. And hes proving the point of why this BGS thread exists in the first place. Other wise. Why are we here?

Theres an obvious issue like it or not. Or this thread wouldn't be as big as it is.

Im going to leave now. Have fun guys.

YouTube vidoes don't help your cause. Just shows that he doesn't understand how the game works just as much as you do.

And its not PvP. He isn't attacking a player, but a faction, which is comprised ENTIRELY by NPCs. By definition, that is PvE gameplay.

And that is not why this thread exists. I was here when this thread got started, and this isn't it.

 

[Mohrgan]

Then why is colonia helping each other grow instead of fighting against each other through the BGS. Which is totally doable cause they are sitting on a truce with everyone involved right now.

ITS PVP Dude. Like it or not.

There is an extended definition of PvP arguing that the contention, through the BGS, between players is a type of PvP. But, that use is uncommon, and should be qualified when it's used. Throughout the gaming world PvP is understood to mean direct combat between players. Your rehashing of all these old and dusty arguments can't change the basic facts.

Pvp means combat between players, and general access to the BGS is a fundamental feature of E|D.

 

[thirstyfish]

You're right. But you purposefully missed the point. Look at what could be happening right now. Fighting over territory *GASP* . Just like POWERPLAY was supposed to be.

But instead they are helping each other out which is cool. But it wont last forever

Power play has NOTHING to do with minor factions, or even major factions. Do your homework.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

YouTube vidoes don't help your cause. Just shows that he doesn't understand how the game works just as much as you do.

And its not PvP. He isn't attacking a player, but a faction, which is comprised ENTIRELY by NPCs. By definition, that is PvE gameplay.

And that is not why this thread exists. I was here when this thread got started, and this isn't it.

NPC's we own. Bases we own and worked for.

You can spin it any way you want. I really dont care.

Hes attacking a player faction. Colonia has its own bubble full of powers. Just like powerplay. We all had to work to get there. And we could all fight over territory and push and pull people out of groups. THATS CALLED PVP. Bottom line. Just because I attack NPCS in the game and still make an impact on other players. Thats what the BGS is about. And its Called PVP.