For many players - "o7" are not the starting bytes of an acceptable communications protocol 
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Ah, I see it now. I wasn't thinking along those lines. I was trying to compare the song directly to the meat of the points in the discussion. Which brought me confusion.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The point would seem to be that, although players would count towards the mission total, the mission can be completed by targeting only NPCs.
For some, definitely. For some, not at all. For others maybe, maybe not - it depends on the encounter.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
I play in vr in a flight seat . Whilst I try to acknowledge other PF member's when I am out in the sticks it IS a pita typing
Also playing in open does not necessarily mean " want to chat"
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Players would count toward the mission total? I was under the impression that the players WERE the target, meaning NPCs did NOT count. I could never see this happening though. Would rightly stir the pot. "Why am I now a mission target" Etc... etc...
I apologize, i was referring to WANTED PvP. As in, you go out in open and EXPECT PvP, and you are prepared for it. Obviuosly its not fun you don't WANT to engage in PvP, and someone PvPs you anyway. In that case, why are you putting yourself in that situation?
It's kinda like this: "Man, I sure hate death metal music, but I really want to go to this local bar for the drink specials.. but they have a band playing death metal tonight. I should really complain to everyone in attendance that this band really sucks and should instead play more Ed Sheeran, because, you know, death metal sucks and everyone who likes death metal is trash."
Seems about right about those that play Elite in Open but despise PvP.
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Understoon. I also have a VR, and yeah typing can suck. I have... a score of maybe 4/10 when it comes typing without looking. I can get out the basics kinda. But anyway, Open to me means "Open to other players". Meaning that it kinda implies that you are at least with half a mind to interact with other players. Granted, there is no written rule, but its implied that since you decided not go to solo, you are "open" to playing with others.
Just my interpretation.
The thing is even in open the advertised design was such that if you were clean then game mechanics woukd make sure getting attacked by a murder hobo woukd be rare because their consequences woukd be significant.
Open, solo or PG we are all members of the pilots federation.
Now all that said i do kind of agree with you this is how the game is, but its not how its meant to be. I HAVE left open after playing almost exclusively in it for the 1st 6 -12 months.. then the playerbase seemed to change with scratchy nips and sdc abusing mechanics and then code griefing at hutton was the final nail for me and open. Shame!.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There's only one game mode with an unlimited population, which is why I expect that some players that don't like PvP play in Open - to meet more players - and it would seem that Frontier would like to encourage more players to play in it, which, given that Frontier would seem to be well aware that the majority of players don't get involved in PvP, would suggest that features will be introduced that might discourage some forms of PvP. We will see, in time, whether their aspirations are realised.
True. i don't usually PvP unless someone asks, i get interdicted, or if there is a report that a particular player is being a complete , in which I go on the offensive and hunt them down.
However, bearing the name of the game and the term of "Open", meaning "open to interaction with other players", the game doesn't give two licks whether you want to PvP or not. Many players who despise PvP need to realize that is risk they need to take if they want to meet other people in Open. But there are PLENTY of other ways to meet players. Heck, on these forums all you gotta do is "Looking for group" in the newcomers forum and you get spammed with group invites to discord to talk to. (Not a bad thing. Groups are great!)
Frontier REALLY needs to get the crime and punishment and karma system down right if they want more players to be in Open. Unfortunately, Elite is so... unique with this open world that its going to be really difficult. So many MMOs have a "Flagged for PvP" function, where no one can attack them if they are not flagged. Is this the right function for Elite? Idk, but I know other MMOs DO NOT have this kind of anti-PvPer culture that Elite has.
But my opinion on this will stand as I have stated so many times in the past. Griefing and gankers are few and far between unless you find yourself in a popular hot spot. Outside of hot spots, you have a higher chance of getting into a real-life car crash then getting griefed by a player for no reason in some random system in the bubble. I say "grief" and not interdicted because many player-factions have patrols and will interdict players, but won't necessarily attack them. Generally, they just want to know what you are doing in their system, and will generally let you be on your way. Kinda similar to system security as they sometimes pull you out of supercruise to scan you.
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I do try to reply to all hails, and the new CMDR history is incredibly helpful for when you're just entering hyperspace as a message comes through.
But sometimes I'm just messing with the camera suit, or if I'm docked, I've probably gone to make coffee or pee, and simply miss it. Lol
As for playing in open, and not wanting the risk of PvP encounters;
I guess some people just want the social side of the game, and the odd rare PvP piracy (which is fun for both parties, IMHO). But they don't want to be murdered for what they perceive as "no reason".
I pretty much fall in to this category, except you're welcome to try and kill me, but I've master my Brave Sir Robin manoeuvre.
There isn't actually a large "PvE+PvP Piracy Only" Private Group I know of.
Maybe we do need a MobiusPiracy group, where PvP piracy (and being destroyed for non compliance) is allowed, and PvP in conflict zones is allowed, but not random murder...
Random late night thought.
Feel free to shoot it to pieces. Lol
Of course, that would further divide the player base... Probably.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
But sometimes I'm just messing with the camera suit, or if I'm docked, I've probably gone to make coffee or pee, and simply miss it. Lol
As for playing in open, and not wanting the risk of PvP encounters;
I guess some people just want the social side of the game, and the odd rare PvP piracy (which is fun for both parties, IMHO). But they don't want to be murdered for what they perceive as "no reason".
I pretty much fall in to this category, except you're welcome to try and kill me, but I've master my Brave Sir Robin manoeuvre.
There isn't actually a large "PvE+PvP Piracy Only" Private Group I know of.
Maybe we do need a MobiusPiracy group, where PvP piracy (and being destroyed for non compliance) is allowed, and PvP in conflict zones is allowed, but not random murder...
Random late night thought.
Feel free to shoot it to pieces. Lol
Of course, that would further divide the player base... Probably.
CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Many players who eschew PvP would seem to have already left Open for Solo and Private Groups - it's Frontier that seems to consider that Open doesn't have as high a population as they'd like and would seem to be prepared to make changes to the game to make Open more attractive to more players.
Indeed they do if they are to achieve their goal.
For whatever reason Frontier have chosen not to go down the tried and tested discrete PvP / PvE server route (although I expect it has something to do with the implications that a PvE mode would have on the damage model) - which is probably why there is antipathy between the players that like PvP and players that don't like PvP, due to the fact that the multi-player game modes are PvP-enabled.
well damage model in that pvpers would resort to getting around pve damage model by ramming. or trying to. thats my guess.
note not all pvpers think like that; im talking about the ones try to sneak into groups like mobius and moan about solo and PG, and say 'should be closed/not affect BGS/no CG except open/neutered in some way', in order to force victims back to open. yep THOSE ones.
note not all pvpers think like that; im talking about the ones try to sneak into groups like mobius and moan about solo and PG, and say 'should be closed/not affect BGS/no CG except open/neutered in some way', in order to force victims back to open. yep THOSE ones.
No it is an in-game reason. The game mechanic offers you the choice to complete the mission by different way (like bounty hunting). More choice to achieve something is a good thing.
Why is PvP functionality a non optional multiplayer game core design then ?
I agree that a C&P and reward system is needed though. Even if i kind of like the actual liberty we have in PvP engagement, let's be honest it will be more fair for everyone.
There are also plenty a post, on reddit and social media saying PvP is needed to make this game thrilling taking place in a cutthroat galaxy.
Is it a Private Forum ???
Yeah this forum. Especially this forum.
SDC forum does not even exist. We are not anti-PvE. How can we be anti-PvE in a game build on basic but easy PvE activities ? We are just PvP oriented because it has challenge that PvE can't provide for now (maybe 2.4 and Thargoid will be challenging)
Some PvPers keep begging for people to come back to Open.
I only think you don't PvP. This statement is based on the generalization you made "Combat Ships and Wings in Open are not looking for anything fair or challenging, they are looking for easy targets." and all the experience i have in PvP.
If you are interested to learn about how PvP is made in Open most of the time, i suggest you to join GCI discord and participate.
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As Mike pointed out, VR is one reason why you may not get a response. I very rarely respond to text chat (even though my keyboard is on my lap and I can touch type, it's still damn inconvenient!). But even if you don't have VR, it is very easy to miss chat if you are doing something else. So much inane rubbish gets shown from NPCs and stations that it is remarkably easy to miss chat from commanders. Fortunately, responding to chat is not a requirement of playing in Open.
I guess you miss the whole "shields" part in my post. People do use defenses. And as for your question... what type of ship, level, are they able to afford the better gear, etc?
No.. As I said above, as a community you need to police your own. Because no *@#$! were given and others were allowed to run rampant trashing the community. Now PVPers feel threatened and don't look to those who caused the issue, but instead to those who play differently.
I'm one of those only attack NPC's... but that is very rare that I get the combat bug in ED.
A lot of the old PVP guard have come to realize the truth and either accepted it or left....he might be in those numbers at this point.
Maybe he was, like most people, creeped out by the clown in the background.. you know... chuckles!!!
It occurs to me that perhaps quite a few people would come to open if it wasn't a P2P connection. I know that's what keeps -me- out of open. I don't want a peer to peer connection to my computer.
Edit: Well, one of the reasons. Right near the top, too.
Edit: Well, one of the reasons. Right near the top, too.
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