PvP Griefers are seriously making me consider quitting

[EvE4evah]

Hello I've been away up mountains, very healthy and invigorating. I've just read in the news that there were two emergency airlifts from snowdon less than 48 hours after I was up the summit (the summit has a coffee shop that mountain really needs to git-gud), not surprising really I saw more struggling people in jeans and trainers than stout boots and bobble hats (a bit like flying unshielded in open).

It was never supposed to be just comms, that was a temporary fudged version after lots of entitled wailing I think. Now it's working as was always intended to purge the unclean.

Block is a designed function working as intended, whereas clogging and 5-1 are cheats so it's not really the same.



Me.



Dangerous is fun, station griefing cheaters and low skill gankers not so much.

1. Wooot, nice aventure then!! Sometimes I'm so jealous that there's no snow down here where I live. Cheers, and welcome back!

2. You are right, FDev Block was badly designed from its very beginnings. What with denying people to instance with you, and being able to avoid potential white knight counterplay by blocking said white knights at CGs, whilst ganking unchecked.

3. The Block is indeed functioning as intended by FDev, a duct tape trying to cover the holes of a lack of proper C&P, doing more harm than good. Don't like a CMDRs avatar? Block him. Got interdicted? Block. Found a nice RES in private group but there are already 3 people in it? Block. Want to kill noobs in Eravate but Adle's Armada doesn't let you? Block them. It's a cheat, a dev-sanctioned one.

If only I could get me some snowy mountain trip! Dying of jealousy right now. See ya! [heart]

There's been nothing worthwhile in this thread for a week or two. I think I'll unsubscr... oh. OK.

http://ed.pubimg.co.uk/popbeer160.png

Heya Jack, gimme some! I'm at work in a shift, till 12:00 UTC tomorrow [knocked out]

Forum griefers are worse than the in-game griefers.

Not closed yet?

Odd

Forum griefers?? Report!!

 

[A D]

I like seeing players in open, but agree that playing solo or private is the way to go if just wanting to enjoy some "me" time.

Moving on, an ED first!! I got griefed by NPC's in a conflict zone. Yes it's true! Three times got my butt handed to me with 5 million re-buy each time. I refused to combat log or high-wake and paid the price. And the NPC's don't even get a PFB under 2.4. Sheesh, can they do that? Minding my own business. Only chose a faction cos it was a pretty green. Now I gotta watch the AI in conflict zones [big grin]


...BTW, the getting killed 3 times bit is true, maybe my combat skills need some work

 

[besieger]

In ED they don't call them griefers. They call them "pirates". But whatever you want to call them, I'm sick of their crap.

I've been a huge fan. I own all 30 ships, bought skins for a few, decals, etc. I'm at a point where I've done enough that the only reason to play now is to meet up with some people and have some fun together.

But apparently that's not allowed. The only thing that's allowed is that people get to mug me whenever they feel like it, and then make fun of me for "whining" about it because "that's what Solo is for". They are 100% allowed to ruin anything I'm doing, and I have no possible way of getting revenge except to STOP what I'm doing, blow a few million calling my PvP ship at the nearest station, wait for it to be delivered, and see if I can find them... if they're even still online.

Can't even call them out by name in the forums. That's a "witch hunt". They're just "pirating", which is "valid". Minding my own business and wanting to play with people who won't take advantage of a ship mismatch? That's not valid at all. I should run like a coward or give them my cargo or just let them blow me up. I should play in Solo. I should "know what I'm getting into". I should make people stand guard over me.

Because what I want doesn't count, only what the "pirates" want counts. (not "griefers", they're not "griefers" remember)

The new justice system will raise the amount of Cr they pay... like that will make any difference or pay me back at all for the bull...

So you know what? Screw it. I don't need this in my life.


... maybe... idk... having a real hard time walking away from a game I've poured this many hours into... and the game has so much potential...


But let's face it: I haven't actually enjoyed ED in days.

Anyway... I expect the only people who reply to this thread will be pirates who can't wait to validate the awful way they victimize people for fun so... likely won't be back to these forums... just needed to say it.

This is for anyone in this thread who feels they have been "griffed", did the player really "grif" you?

Below is a checklist of how you know its a real "griffer" and not a PVPer:

- Did they use an exploit against you?
- Did the player cheat?
- Did the player use a game mechanic in an unintended way against you?
If any of these where yes, then that was indeed a "griffer" else its would seem its no more than a normal player interacting with you in a way you did not want. If it indeed was a normal player then the lesson here is learning what went wrong.

If OP or anyone has a video of their encounter with what they feel was "griffing" please do post here I will go through your video and detail everything you did wrong and how you could of done better or survived.

Open is not hard to play in, but it requires some effort to survive.

 

[Lateralus]

Remember traders, stop and drop [up]

 

[Schmack]

This is for anyone in this thread who feels they have been "griffed", did the player really "grif" you?

Below is a checklist of how you know its a real "griffer" and not a PVPer:

- Did they use an exploit against you?
- Did the player cheat?
- Did the player use a game mechanic in an unintended way against you?
If any of these where yes, then that was indeed a "griffer" else its would seem its no more than a normal player interacting with you in a way you did not want. If it indeed was a normal player then the lesson here is learning what went wrong.

If OP or anyone has a video of their encounter with what they feel was "griffing" please do post here I will go through your video and detail everything you did wrong and how you could of done better or survived.

Open is not hard to play in, but it requires some effort to survive.

Can't name and shame and posting the video does that.

 

[Gunnet]

This is for anyone in this thread who feels they have been "griffed", did the player really "grif" you?

Below is a checklist of how you know its a real "griffer" and not a PVPer:

- Did they use an exploit against you?
- Did the player cheat?
- Did the player use a game mechanic in an unintended way against you?
If any of these where yes, then that was indeed a "griffer" else its would seem its no more than a normal player interacting with you in a way you did not want. If it indeed was a normal player then the lesson here is learning what went wrong.

If OP or anyone has a video of their encounter with what they feel was "griffing" please do post here I will go through your video and detail everything you did wrong and how you could of done better or survived.

Open is not hard to play in, but it requires some effort to survive.

I'm surprised you missed this post, given who the second part of it was addressed to. Emphasis mine:

Hello Commanders!

In response to combat logging versus "griefing" (which I will define here as killing a much weaker vessel with potentially a lower combat rated pilot): both are considered "undesirable" behaviour. I'm not saying that they would have to get exactly the same bad karma, just that repeatedly doing either act would see a Commander slide down the karma slope. I'm not sure that this can really be argued against, unless you are bringing a strong bias to the discussion table.

In Open, you can run into other Commanders that want to destroy your ship. We are saying that if they repeatedly pick unfair fights, we will take action against them. Why would we not take action against someone who consistently logs to avoid legitimate destruction? And I'm sure that we could envisage a system that reduced karma loss for combat logging when aggressors are also low karma Commanders, so it feels reasonable to me?

Hell Commander besieger!

As we're speaking hypothetically here, we would want to avoid shadow banning where possible. As an example, for a Commander that repeatedly killed clean ships that were significantly weaker than them, I'd rather see a removal of insurance cover (so when a ship is destroyed it's gone, or you have to pay the full price to get it back), docking privileges rescinded at all starports and outposts except those in anarchy jurisdictions and game applied Pilot Federation bounties rather than a shadow ban.

Of course, we'd always reserve the right to apply out of game measures if we felt they were justified.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm surprised you missed this post, given who the second part of it was addressed to. Emphasis mine:

He knows, he is just janking your chain and hoping for a response. Somewhat related, I wonder if Besieger's magical vanishing trick when he in his Asp bumped into my Corvette is 'using a game mechanic in an unintended way', but I guess SDC has always been... ambivalent towards combat logging in all its shapes. [haha]

 

[Red Anders]

This is for anyone in this thread who feels they have been "griffed", did the player really "grif" you?

Below is a checklist of how you know its a real "griffer" and not a PVPer:

- Did they use an exploit against you?
- Did the player cheat?
- Did the player use a game mechanic in an unintended way against you?
If any of these where yes, then that was indeed a "griffer" else its would seem its no more than a normal player interacting with you in a way you did not want. If it indeed was a normal player then the lesson here is learning what went wrong.

That's pretty funny Harry. I mean I thought you were a frequent gamer, yet you've come up with a definition there that's way narrower than pretty much anybody I've played online games with (and more importantly against) would recognise. Even the ones who do it. Full disclosure: Hell, even me when I've done it in other games. Basically you're saying either cheats or exploits and nothing else? I'll just assume you're trolling as usual because I had the impression that you were more intelligent than to actually believe that nonsense.

All griefing obviously does involve 'a player interacting with you in a way you did not want' but it clearly involves a lot more than that as well before it hits any kind of threshold. A majority of players recognise that and a majority of the ones who don't play in modes where they will never be troubled by it. I'm sure you've had 500 players and more call you out but with 2m accounts sold, even if it was 5,000 it's insignificant. That means you're referring to an idiot minority, which is fine but don't try to suggest their opinions reflect anything other than that.

By the way, I've only replied to this for the same reason I replied to the guy in the longest gank thread who suggested it wasn't seal clubbing - it's not the fact people do this stuff, it's the intellectual dishonesty involved in refusing to own it. Yeah, even when that is itself just more trolling - it's just tedious.

There's actually a real discussion to be had about both extremes of the divide in this game because it's genuinely unlike anything I've seen in other games and the atmosphere it creates on here, reddit and any other social media for the game is totally crap for people who find both ends of the opinion scale to be as ludicrous as each other. Instead you can't read three posts about it before some hysterical from one extreme or the other appears and the wheels come off.

 

[Vin58]

Remember traders, stop and drop [up]

Couple of months ago out of the blue I got interdicted by a known Xbox pirate (not known to me at the time) pulled me over asked for cargo, I told I had none he scanned me. He left me saying shame on me for having no cargo this time. I was in a exploracoda he was in a cutter, probes engineered to the gills. I then received a msg and a link to yt thanking me being a good sport and inviting me to view our encounter. I found this to be a decent experience, adding to the fabric of elite dangerous.

Later that same day, another cmdr interdiction this time no comms just killed in about 20s. My exploracoda had no weapons no cargo racks, his corvette my 7Mcr rebuy. But because I was engineering my vette nearby around the same time I took my vette back to the same system. I flew for a few minutes until same cmdr interdicted for the second time I unload on him, he logged. Then msg me stated he didn't know what happened and why I logged on him. Luckily I recorded our encounter and shared it to my various Xbox clubs, I told this cmdr of this and his msgs stopped. A different and yet rewarding encounter nevertheless.

Now older and wiser, fast forward to current cg in eurybia. Known pirate interdicted me msg 50t now pls. I am in my vette full of cargo, I turn round open up, he does nothing, but warned me to comply. After a minute or two realising his shields weren't going down, I decided to flee from this known cutter pirate. Just as my FSD count down finished I get a hatch limpet warning. Too late a high wake out. I wait 5 minutes and jump back into Eurybia, thinking this pirate would give up. No he is persistent interdicted again, the msgs fly. I give in and relent 50t of explosives are his. 15000cr are lost by myself, he hurriedly picks up his booty. Just as I am about to leave he remembers our previous encounter. This cmdr has provided a game experience no npc could match. Only in elite dangerous.

I have lost cargo once, been ganked a few times, even stealth killed at live streams and killed because I didn't know what I was doing. All these experiences even the negatives have gifted me the experience to overcome much more.

 

[Cosmos]

All things considered I think the following music should be played whenever reading this forum


https://youtu.be/aK8mbA083hE?t=1m30s

 

[besieger]

I'm surprised you missed this post, given who the second part of it was addressed to. Emphasis mine:

We both know Combat rank has no meaning in this game for PVP... you think you are any safer if i was ranked Harmless?

He knows, he is just janking your chain and hoping for a response. Somewhat related, I wonder if Besieger's magical vanishing trick when he in his Asp bumped into my Corvette is 'using a game mechanic in an unintended way', but I guess SDC has always been... ambivalent towards combat logging in all its shapes. [haha]

Given I don't own an ASP and haven't since 1.0 I doubt you have seen me in one... though please feel free to post a video of me in such a ship, if I saw your corvette it probably got trashed with all the others I meet.

That's pretty funny Harry. I mean I thought you were a frequent gamer, yet you've come up with a definition there that's way narrower than pretty much anybody I've played online games with (and more importantly against) would recognise. Even the ones who do it. Full disclosure: Hell, even me when I've done it in other games. Basically you're saying either cheats or exploits and nothing else? I'll just assume you're trolling as usual because I had the impression that you were more intelligent than to actually believe that nonsense.

All griefing obviously does involve 'a player interacting with you in a way you did not want' but it clearly involves a lot more than that as well before it hits any kind of threshold. A majority of players recognise that and a majority of the ones who don't play in modes where they will never be troubled by it. I'm sure you've had 500 players and more call you out but with 2m accounts sold, even if it was 5,000 it's insignificant. That means you're referring to an idiot minority, which is fine but don't try to suggest their opinions reflect anything other than that.

By the way, I've only replied to this for the same reason I replied to the guy in the longest gank thread who suggested it wasn't seal clubbing - it's not the fact people do this stuff, it's the intellectual dishonesty involved in refusing to own it. Yeah, even when that is itself just more trolling - it's just tedious.

There's actually a real discussion to be had about both extremes of the divide in this game because it's genuinely unlike anything I've seen in other games and the atmosphere it creates on here, reddit and any other social media for the game is totally crap for people who find both ends of the opinion scale to be as ludicrous as each other. Instead you can't read three posts about it before some hysterical from one extreme or the other appears and the wheels come off.

I the context of Elite my check list fits quite well, if I am killed in a DBS I am not going to cry about it and call "griffer!" I would look at what happened and move from there. I am a frequent gamer and have seen what real "griffers" do, trust me its much worse than anything players can do here.

I like I said if people posted their end of the interaction we would be able to point out how to get better, instead we get tons upon tons of complaints about XYZ and how its unfair or its cheating etc, people in this game and community need to quite literally "git gud".

Anyone who has seen my forum history knows I was one of the most carebear players around and now look at me, I got gud. and that's all there is to it... I have the same tools everyone else does.

 

[Gunnet]

We both know Combat rank has no meaning in this game for PVP... you think you are any safer if i was ranked Harmless?

"Much weaker vessel". For what it's worth, I'm with you in thinking that combat ranks aren't meaningful enough to be useful factors in C&P or karma.

I can't really get any safer, my open ship has double chaff

 

[Ian Skippy]

Given I don't own an ASP and haven't since 1.0 I doubt you have seen me in one... though please feel free to post a video of me in such a ship, if I saw your corvette it probably got trashed with all the others I meet.

My foot, this was presumably for Engineers, and you were using it to grind mats. I presume jumping around in your PvP ships was a hassle for you then, I dont blame you. For what it is worth, you did try to trash my Corvette. And Asp. And Sidewinder. And Viper. Usually at engineer bases and around maia. You failed every single time, probably because I mastered the trick of 'chaff' and 'hi-wake'. But feel welcome to 'protect your reputation' here, whatever you think it may be.

We both know Combat rank has no meaning in this game for PVP... you think you are any safer if i was ranked Harmless?

Yes, you'd have access to less engineers.

 

[besieger]

"Much weaker vessel". For what it's worth, I'm with you in thinking that combat ranks aren't meaningful enough to be useful factors in C&P or karma.

I can't really get any safer, my open ship has double chaff

You must of not heard about me being a fixed FA-off Lord?

Again though how do you define a "weaker" player vs a player who does not know how to build their ship or a player who builds their ship to fool the system into thinking they are weaker, once you define a weaker vs stronger ship you have begun splitting ships into "levels" like in a traditional MMO when in reality you could take a sidewinder and kill an FDL with it.

 

[besieger]

My foot, this was presumably for Engineers, and you were using it to grind mats. I presume jumping around in your PvP ships was a hassle for you then, I dont blame you. For what it is worth, you did try to trash my Corvette. And Asp. And Sidewinder. And Viper. Usually at engineer bases and around maia. You failed very single time, probably because I mastered the trick of 'chaff' and 'hi-wake'. But feel welcome to 'protect your reputation' here, whatever you think it may be.



Yes, you'd have access to less engineers.

I would have all the engineers I currently have, again I have never used an ASP since 1.0 well before engineers, I used and still do use the ship I am upgrading to collect my engineer materials, I recently did the engineer grind in a gunship, yes I flew that thing around the bubble and to palin and back.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You must of not heard about me being a fixed FA-off Lord?

Huh, amazing how much your fixed weapons were bothered by chaff. Then again, I am no lord, so I dont know much about such things.

 

[Ozram]

Remember traders, stop and drop [up]

I'll fight interdiction every time. Win that and I'll concede the cargo though.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I would have all the engineers I currently have, again I have never used an ASP since 1.0 well before engineers, I used and still do use the ship I am upgrading to collect my engineer materials, I recently did the engineer grind in a gunship, yes I flew that thing around the bubble and to palin and back.

Well, I guess I met another person from the Wizarding World then. What a coincidence.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Well, I guess I met another person from the Wizarding World then. What a coincidence.

Wonder what his favourite spell is.

Modulus explotiax

 

[Gunnet]

You must of not heard about me being a fixed FA-off Lord?

Again though how do you define a "weaker" player vs a player who does not know how to build their ship or a player who builds their ship to fool the system into thinking they are weaker, once you define a weaker vs stronger ship you have begun splitting ships into "levels" like in a traditional MMO when in reality you could take a sidewinder and kill an FDL with it.

Yeah, no system is immune to being avoided or subverted. I've said before that nothing other than a PvP flag or open PvE mode will solve the problem with griefing while still allowing people who enjoy PvP (including those who enjoy having to avoid it) to do their thing, and I stand by that.

Ultimately, I was just quoting Sandro to point out that the definition of griefing you presented isn't in line with Frontier's definition. Not to endorse the effectiveness of karma or C&P.