PvP Griefers are seriously making me consider quitting

[Ian Skippy]

Wonder what his favourite spell is.

Modulus explotiax

Ha! I dont even get the point of this. Why 'misremember' what 'griefing' is, or even how it is spelled, what ships he flies, or his typical use of gimballed weapons in engineered ships (heck, YT can show you that easily)? Its just plain weird. If you spend so little time building a reputation, why not just say:"Yes, I like trolling people with my gimballed weapons because it is easy and I like it when people complain about me." It is allowed, it isnt cheating or exploiting and its very well known. Why go through the effort to pretend its about anything else? Surely he didnt attack my Sidewinder at an engineer base in his cutter because he was looking for a challenge? And surely he didnt fail because he is such a Master of Fixed Weapons? It is fine. We aren't Isinona with his FA off skills etc, noone will look down on you when you are just honest.

Weird stuff.

 

[besieger]

Yeah, no system is immune to being avoided or subverted. I've said before that nothing other than a PvP flag or open PvE mode will solve the problem with griefing while still allowing people who enjoy PvP (including those who enjoy having to avoid it) to do their thing, and I stand by that.

Ultimately, I was just quoting Sandro to point out that the definition of griefing you presented isn't in line with Frontier's definition. Not to endorse the effectiveness of karma or C&P.

I fully understand what frontier might regard as griefing but its not the correct definition, again people keep using the word to describe a situation they do not like... this is not griefing at all. its also bad practice to rely on frontier commenting on such words used in gaming for year given their stance on the 15-sec loggout. by definition it IS combat logging only its allowed.

I don't care what frontier think of these terms when they are quite clearly set in stone through years of gaming in hundreds of games and their communites, sure frontier make the rules and I play within them but frontier will have little effect on the very definition of what combat logging or griefing is when its already known.

Ha! I dont even get the point of this. Why 'misremember' what 'griefing' is, or even how it is spelled, what ships he flies, or his typical use of gimballed weapons in engineered ships (heck, YT can show you that easily)? Its just plain weird. If you spend so little time building a reputation, why not just say:"Yes, I like trolling people with my gimballed weapons because it is easy and I like it when people complain about me." It is allowed, it isnt cheating or exploiting and its very well known. Why go through the effort to pretend its about anything else? Surely he didnt attack my Sidewinder at an engineer base in his cutter because he was looking for a challenge? And surely he didnt fail because he is such a Master of Fixed Weapons? It is fine. We aren't Isinona with his FA off skills etc, noone will look down on you when you are just honest.

Weird stuff.

Isinona would get creamed by most PVPers these days... his FA-off flying is nice but he can't aim with it...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Isinona would get creamed by most PVPers these days... his FA-off flying is nice but he can't aim with it...

Sure, but he isnt a PvP'er. He is someone who just learned to fly FA off really, really well. And inspired a lot of people with, which is commendable. I am not sure if you'd understand this, but its a lot harder to have any kind of respect for someone who tries to kill me when I fly a Sidewinder, they fly a Cutter, and they fail. Followed by them taunting me over comms when I went out of range in a rather infantile way. You know?

Dont get me wrong, it is nothing personal. Maybe you have cleaned up your act a bit and you are a legitimite PvP player now who communicates respectfully with other people. Fighting actual PvP ships and actually hitting them, and not questioning people's sexual preferences, for a start. I wouldn't know, because I am not a PvP player. I fly Open because I enjoy people actually putting me at risk, which the AI is simply unable to do as we all know. Jason seems positive about you, and I take his opinion into account. But my numerous experiences with you so far left me... underwhelmed. And that includes both flying and communication skills, in-game. Lots of gimballed, lots of swearing. Not a fan of either.

 

[besieger]

Sure, but he isnt a PvP'er. He is someone who just learned to fly FA off really, really well. And inspired a lot of people with, which is commendable. I am not sure if you'd understand this, but its a lot harder to have any kind of respect for someone who tries to kill me when I fly a Sidewinder, they fly a Cutter, and they fail. Followed by them taunting me over comms when I went out of range. You know?

Dont get me wrong, it is nothing personal. Maybe you have cleaned up your act a bit and you are a legitimite PvP player now. Fighting actual PvP ships and actually hitting them. I wouldn't know, because I am not. I fly Open because I enjoy people actually putting me at risk, which the AI is simply unable to do as we all know. Jason seems positive about you, and I take his opinion into account. But my numerous experiences with you so far left me... underwhelmed. And that includes both flying and communication skills, in-game. Lots of gimballed, lots of swearing. Not a fan of either.

you honestly are just some forum dude who claims to have seen me... I have never had an interaction with you at all, I know this because I don't shoot at sidewinders. "legitimate PVP" haha!

 

[Ian Skippy]

you honestly are just some forum dude who claims to have seen me... I have never had an interaction with you at all, I know this because I don't shoot at sidewinders. "legitimate PVP" haha!

Fine, as you wish. You are, by the way, not the only person who has a different forum name compared with the cmdr name...

 

[Tel Prydain]

Not going to read this whole thread, and I’m sure someone has said this already, but just want to restate it… I despise seal-clubbers and griefers, but in the examples given it sounds like actual, fair PvP piracy. ‘Pirate’ should be a valid path – and given that it pays less than trading, we should be thanking those that take the time to make mundane trading more exciting.

If someone takes the time to message me a “drop your cargo” message before they open fire, I’ll do my best to reward them for taking the time to interdict me (either dropping cargo or hiring them to escort me). Playing super-cruse hide n’ seek with a pirate is not at all the same as some dillweed shooting traders/explorers for lolz.

If you don’t want ANY PvP, consider a PvE group. But leave the good PvP roleplayers alone.

 

[Avago Earo]

you honestly are just some forum dude who claims to have seen me...

If your Avatar is anything to go by, I'd love to meet you. Gives me the right horn

 

[Ozram]

Fine, as you wish. You are, by the way, not the only person who has a different forum name compared with the cmdr name...

Don't think it was the name he was talking about, but rather the specifics of the interaction. I've had my ship destroyed by HP plenty of times but he's never griefed me.
On the other hand, I think it's odd SDC (who have excelent pilots btw and some pretty cool characters) is headed by a logger and a cheat. Sort of ironic really.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Don't think it was the name he was talking about, but rather the specifics of the interaction. I've had my ship destroyed by HP plenty of times but he's never griefed me.
On the other hand, I think it's odd SDC (who have excelent pilots btw and some pretty cool characters) is headed by a logger and a cheat. Sort of ironic really.

I can only talk about what I experienced myself. He was hanging over an engineer base (cant remember which one) with his cutter and attacked me for no apparant reason. Considering I was hundreds of m/s faster, had chaff and flew a tiny ship, it was pointless in every conceivable way. I dont have any proof, so he can claim as he wish. Btw, didnt they kick the cheating/logging leader of SDC away a year ago or so? Or is this a new cheating/logging leader of SDC?

 

[Ozram]

I can only talk about what I experienced myself. He was hanging over an engineer base (cant remember which one) with his cutter and attacked me for no apparant reason. Considering I was hundreds of m/s faster, had chaff and flew a tiny ship, it was pointless in every conceivable way. I dont have any proof, so he can claim as he wish. Btw, didnt they kick the cheating/logging leader of SDC away a year ago or so? Or is this a new cheating/logging leader of SDC?

I didn't realise. Perhaps my info is outdated but he's still top dog (or whatever the official title is) at the Discord.
And no, I'm not accusing HP of any wrongdoing nor was I aiming that comment at him.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I didn't realise. Perhaps my info is outdated but he's still top dog (or whatever the official title is) at the Discord.
And no, I'm not accusing HP of any wrongdoing nor was I aiming that comment at him.

ha, I know. Just to be clear, is this the 'got caught combat logging and giggling like a schoolgirl' thing? If so, AFAIK he is no longer with SDC.

 

[sovapid]

I know this because I don't shoot at sidewinders.

Wait, what? Really?

I've found a loophole!

All I need to do is engineer up a sidewinder and I can finally beat harry since he won't shoot back!

 

[Ozram]

ha, I know. Just to be clear, is this the 'got caught combat logging and giggling like a schoolgirl' thing? If so, AFAIK he is no longer with SDC.

He is currently still at the head and active in the SDC Discord and I'm currently discussing him on my Discord with one of their members.

 

[Ian Skippy]

He is currently still at the head and active in the SDC Discord and I'm currently discussing him on my Discord with one of their members.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Makes you wonder about their earlier 'manifesto' they posted here about 'zero tolerance' and 'taking responsibility'. A shame, really. I wish there was a ED player group that consisted of 'legit' borg-like dangerous people. But every time you think you found a group that could fullfil that role and add some danger to Open you discover its tainted with cheats, exploits and lame behavior.

 

[Ozram]

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Makes you wonder about their earlier 'manifesto' they posted here about 'zero tolerance' and 'taking responsibility'. A shame, really. I wish there was a ED player group that consisted of 'legit' borg-like dangerous people. But every time you think you found a group that could fullfil that role and add some danger to Open you discover its tainted with cheats, exploits and lame behavior.

Indeed it does. Personally, I actually hold myself to more stringent standards than most as I do not use exploits of any sort including mode swapping to refresh menus etc but it's difficult to take a group seriously that makes such loud claims against it when sitting at the very head of the group is an individual that has been caught out using nearly every single one out there including the log and the engineering exploit that FD has recently dealt with.
To be clear, I actually like and respect many individuals within their group, but not the group itself because of the hypocrisy that comes from the very top.

 

[kofeyh]

But apparently that's not allowed.

Sorry? The developer designed the game to allow combat at a time that is expressly not of one's choosing, for reasons not of one's choosing. There are a number of aspects that are a part of the game, that you may not agree with; this doesn't automatically make them incorrect. There are, however, a number of player groups, who operate for all manner of reasons, as a potential option.

Piracy, ironically, is actually directly referenced in the game, there is a pirate lord who is the head of a powerplay faction. It has history and lore. So this is 100% intentional from the developer. Understand, that this can happen is entirely intentional. Frontier built the game specifically to encourage and support conflict, as well as exploration, and trade.

So, how to go forward from here. Suggest private groups; there are a number who are actively looking for like-minded people. Private groups, friend. Give them a shot. I'm typically in open, I prefer the notion I am not 100% in control (I can blaze my own trail, but so can everyone else, and that might include being shot at) and that's how frontier pitched and sold the game, but I will happily jump into a friend's PG if they are not comfortable in open. I'll then pop back to open when done.

The game does have huge potential, but it's worth remembering that a game that can challenge, that can offer morally ambiguous options and that has consequences to those morally ambiguous options (to their credit, frontier is finally starting to address this) allows the game to offer a lot more, than something that might be more one-dimensional and disinteresting.

You can also block folks, if they become a pest.

I'm not going to tell you to get gud, I'm not going to tell you, your experience is wrong. But I'm not going to say the ganker is specifically wrong, or the pirate, either. It's an electable choice. Even if it has negative consequences. Frontier has, again, started to redress some of the criminal code, but ultimately, some folks are just going to be bad, in a game that allows for that.

At the end of the day, we all have a choice; and we have three game modes that allow some degree of freedom. I'd encourage leveraging that to help improve your experience. Frontier will eventually get a handle on the criminal code; it will just take time and iteration to make it workable. The massive amount of work Sandro and his team has done with the pilot's federation bounty versus powerplay, shows they are actually well aware of some of the intricacies and are up to the task of improvements. That's actually a good sign.

Anyway, hopefully this provides some solutions to your quandary. Fly safe, cmdr! o7

edited.

 

[sollisb]

The only reason to choose 'open' play is if you want and invite PvP.

Especially anywhere where these kids hang out looking for targets they can win against.

Everything else you can do in PG or Solo, and not have to interact with them.

Simples.

 

[Powderpanic]

The only reason to choose 'open' play is if you want and invite PvP.

Especially anywhere where these kids hang out looking for targets they can win against.

Everything else you can do in PG or Solo, and not have to interact with them.

Simples.

Quite right, improving your in-game ability or being forced to think tactically. Its essentially griefing.

 

[StiTch]

The problem with this PvP vs PvE in the same instance is that there's no middle ground. PvE appears to be all co-op. PvP appears to be all conflict.

I saw this lovely little excerpt and just had to ask...what co-op play? I must have missed a memo; last chance I was playing ED, there was no actual co-op content as much as the ability to shoot the same hapless targets with a friend while having comms open with them and a nice little icon to display their health. Winged PvP or organised PP PvP is about the most "co-operative" play we get, and PvE combat is hardly lacking in conflict. You're basically going on an unopposed killing spree.

I could certainly make a strong argument for some true wing content, but it won't change much about the game mode argument landscape. Here's a radical notion, mind - perhaps the community might have perceived PvE as more conflict-centric, and be less hysterical about random CMDR attacks, if NPCs weren't all dimmed down to the point of being sanitary. Way to highlight the gap between NPC and player if it's only a player that makes one fear death in the first place.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

The only reason to choose 'open' play is if you want and invite PvP.

Especially anywhere where these kids hang out looking for targets they can win against.

Everything else you can do in PG or Solo, and not have to interact with them.

Simples.

I disagree.

Open play is also a non-restricted cooperative interaction with players. Open is not a default player VERSUS player but simply open. Delegating any cooperative action to group mode limits the amount of people you can play WITH and saying that open is exclusively for a PVP crowd is wrong on so many levels.

It allows for PVP but that is not and have never been it's core function.