The AX nerf problem is that there is no obvious reason why, please explain...

[Achilles7]

Frontier were right to buff the Thargoids - as end-game PvE combat, Thargoids need to be scary - however their weapon of choice ie to become 'AX murderers' (double pun before 9am - just bow down before me!) is questionable.

They should, imo, have made the Thargoid vessels faster than all but the fastest stripped down human ships & more evasive to stop the insult to exciting varied combat that is reverski!

 

[stripealipe]

I'll throw in my completely asinine and pointless suggestion for FDevs, one made by someone who doesn't know biowaste about game design:

How about this for adapting?

1. 20 CMDRs come to gank the goid? They one shot it, everybody congratulate each other that it was so easy...then "unknown signature detected" and 5 goids warp in tomato red and start tearing everybody. Everyone scrambles to turn while shooting at each other and feeling somewhat more damp in the nether regions. They adapted! Total classic Aliens moment of dread.

2. Reverski? It just dodges. Claimed to be fixed but I wouldn't know.

3. Easy wings? Hostile the moment hardpoints are deployed. Still isn't easy.

Now I'll shut up about it and go back to getting back to the bubble.

Something like this... throwing out patch notes and then some lame Galnet article wasn't exactly inspired. Just say nothing to us about it and simply make more start appearing and up the challenge should you wanna shoot first.
This kind of gameplay was invented in the late 70's/early 80s arcade games..

 

[bubbabenali]

... and there is a Galnet article explaining that the Thargoids are adapting to our weapons.

By hacking into the weapons and nerf them against any form of target...
Bullsh** excuses are bullsh**.

 

[tagos]

They already confirmed that it was intended and there is a Galnet article explaining that the Thargoids are adapting to our weapons.

Will there be another Galnet article explaining how the Thargoids adaptation magically spread to every other ship in the galaxy?

 

[racer1]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

Maybe the thargoids adapted, probably always part of the story.

 

[tagos]

Maybe the thargoids adapted, probably always part of the story.

But they didn’t adapt. The weapons just magically became ineffective against any target.

 

[Achilles7]

My issue that cant be handwaviumed away is if the thargoids have adapted and the missiles no longer as effective why have human ships adapted as they are not as effective on them either? .. smells like a rush job and not thought through gents, bad form.

Thargoid ships are organic, therefore it isn't incongruous to suggest that they would adapt to weapons used in the same way a virus adapts to drugs or how bacteria develops increased resistance to antibiotics.

Probably the best analogy is the way cockroaches have become immune to many types of insecticides, therefore it is not unreasonable to give Frontier the benefit of the doubt here because we don't have a comprehensive breakdown of the constituent reasons that these new weapons are effective. They may well have a biochemical component.

Disclaimer: I'm playing Devil's Advocate...as my previous post alluded, this is not my own horrific opinion!

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

I suspect the multicannons will be released and will be just as effective as the ax missiles (which have just been evolved against) - don't expect the multicannons to be the new thargoid killing weapon as it will probably still take lots of effort (just as much effort) as the ax missiles. I also suspect our weapons are not tuned properly because we have not yet found the "unique layout" guardian ruin that probably has the missing tech required to stay on top of the thargoids (I think there may be two unique ruins to find and melville found just the one: delta/epsilon).

 

[gooddoc]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

It's probably because FD, as always, listens to the shouts of the pewpew fankiddies. When threads appear all over the forum with comments such as 'Can take down a 'goid in 5 seconds'........'goids too are weak'......'killed goids easily on my own'.....

These are the types of comments that FD takes notice of....& ignores the rest.

Most game makers seem to rely on the this pewpew mentality to sell their products, bringing on board PS4 & Xbox consoles players would have exaggerated this thought. The last thing FD wanted the read was 'how easy is this pewpew!'

It's no surprise to me though, that they've gone the other way now, just to appease these fanboys & ignore the rest of the player group.

Sadly that's the game industry, it's the reason why Elite is the only game Iv bought in years, I can leave all the pewpew & do what I want to do.

Don't blame FD, the fanboys have got what they wished for!

 

[kofeyh]

It would be fine if this was just thargoids, but the weapon was nerfed against all target types, including our own species. So apparently the thargoids have quite literally reached out and touched us all (well, anyone with an AX launcher).

I am going to need therapy after that, thanks Ed!

Spoiler

 

[Vardaugas]

It would be fine if this was just thargoids, but the weapon was nerfed against all target types, including our own species. So apparently the thargoids have quite literally reached out and touched us all (well, anyone with an AX launcher).

I am going to need therapy after that, thanks Ed!

Spoiler

https://orig00.deviantart.net/e2f8/f/2012/216/7/d/who_touched_sasha___by_animations4you-d59r95c.gif

Did it ever do any meaningful damage against normal ships to begin with?

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Its kinda funny seeing threads like this pop up, people thinking its too hard or impossible to defeat Thargoids now is probably exactly what FD wanted


At least to me its obvious that the Thargoids are supposed to be a overwhelming enemy where all the odds are against Humans. And whatever Weapons and Tactics Humans come up with the Thargoids will counter it, I like it. Keeps things interessting instead of already having a Youtube guide of what to do for people to follow.

 

[Winterwalker]

It would be fine if this was just thargoids, but the weapon was nerfed against all target types

I say it's sabotage ..
Some bleeding heart liberal doesn't WANT me to have my fun!! Waaaaaa.

Aegis wants to tighten up it's security if it wants to be an effective civil defence.
A handful of hunt saboteurs could doom us all.

Meanwhile I want to poink the Thargoid threat with a big stick.

Spoiler

 

[raymondo the great]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

My personal theory:

After a week of scouts we were supposed to get better ships to fight that we'd need the new guns for and would be immune to these.
But the new ships are not ready yet - the lovely thing about dripfed content is it doesn't all need to be ready on time, you can just blag that!
So they had to nerf the hell out of the AX because otherwise we will be murdering them in seconds with the new weapon or the new weapon would be useless v the next wave of goid ships.

Add into the mix that they had very few testers for this, meaning likely only employees, and anyone who's watched live streams knows most of the devs are crap pilots they probably couldn't even kill a goid with a team! And I'm not being rude here, I remember a stream where they were demoing multicrew in a fed corvette, they had the extra pip and a fighter and they lost the corvettes shields fighting a conda IIRC. Losing to the NPCs in 1v1 is something that most players move past around the 100hrs of combat mark, but they were truly dreadful! So it's kinda unsurprising that they would make the weapons "too strong" in the first place for what they intended. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was disappointed that people were soloing goids within a few hours of the AX being available.

The main problem (As usual) is the devs have handled the situation all wrong!

 

[Taranis Dekker]

...so please, FD, here's your chance to explain what exactly the problem was. I'm not baiting you, I don't expect a response, but I wanted to give you the opportunity to explain. WHY?

What was it about the way the encounters were going down that you didn't like? What exactly was unintended? One (godlike player in godlike ship) soloing them? 20 players instakilling them? 5 players having a mediocre difficulty encounter? Does the fact we are killing them easily at this stage break the story that has yet to be revealed? All of the above?

Perhaps if I can see the logic, I'd be on your side instead of the other.

To other posters, I'm aware of the potential candidates (for the problem that required this), but I'm curious which it was that tipped the balance.

I'd also like to ask you formally if you are SURE that the degree of the nerf was fully intended. Was it?

Best guess... FD didn't expect the "thargoid down" videos and posts on the forums quite so quickly after 2.4 dropped. The big bad scary aliens we've been hearing about for months weren't quite so big and bad as we expected. Either the aliens needed a buff, or the weapons needed a nerf.

In any case, going from "invasion" to alien destruction within a fortnight of release is a little too fast.

 

[tagos]

Did it ever do any meaningful damage against normal ships to begin with?

Yes and as it should be otherwise an anti thargoid build will be helpless against any passing human enemy.

The missiles weren’t overpowered super weapons against human ships.

 

[Valorin]

It's just part of the narrative. All this speculation about what Frontier did and not did isn't even relevant. You guys just don't seem to know what a story is. Elite is not an arcade shooter about killing "xenos", there is a timeline and a story behind what happens. So the game changes with its timeline and now the Thargoids adapted to the new weapons, and you blame the developers for changing stuff in a way that you triggerhappy cowboys can't win anymore for now? That's almost funny.

 

[gooddoc]

In any case, going from "invasion" to alien destruction within a fortnight of release is a little too fast.

Now I can go with that cmdr!

FD's lore pace is usually at a 'slug hit with a hammer' setting

 

[Muetdhiver]

What would make me very happy is if so far we were killing scouting sidewinders so to speak.

Then imagine FD unleashing a wing of vultures with a FDL equivalent lol.

 

[raymondo the great]

It's just part of the narrative. All this speculation about what Frontier did and not did isn't even relevant. You guys just don't seem to know what a story is. Elite is not an arcade shooter about killing "xenos", there is a timeline and a story behind what happens. So the game changes with its timeline and now the Thargoids adapted to the new weapons, and you blame the developers for changing stuff in a way that you triggerhappy cowboys can't win anymore for now? That's almost funny.

If it was "part of the narrative" then they wouldn't be less effective against human ships....I know sometimes taking off the rose tinted glasses is hard...but if you honestly think the devs handled this in the best way possible I genuinely pity you for your low expectations!