"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[EdzUp]

it's a year for them to get stuff down sort of a breather if you will, yes they will add content bit will also flesh out the rest of the game. 2019 will be the year when they may return to a pay for architecture. For me the amount paid so far has been completely smashed by the fun I've had playing the game well worth the money I can tell you

 

[Rob At Work]

LEP holder here, I am happy with my purchase.

I am proud that I helped fund a vision that's actually bearing some fruit and the prospect of more fruit for at least the next 12 months.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes, knowing FDEV's performance so far, Q4 2018 means 2019 realistically. Imagine that... The game came out in 2014 and the second expansion is only finished in 2019... I like this game but waiting seems to be baked into its DNA, from development to super cruise.

How do you work that one out. From what I can gather Horizons is about 4 months late give or take a few days.

 

[Dan Diplo]

One thing (I don't think) has been mentioned is that there are sound technical reasons for trying to consolidate the game around Horizons. Currently FDev have to support two versions (branches) of the game (base and Horizons). This adds a lot of overhead in terms of coding and testing. If you add another branch to support, then it quickly becomes untenable. The code would end up with lots of corner cases, switch statements, branching logic etc. It would be a nightmare to maintain. Much better to merge everyone into the latest branch

 

[Riverside]

One thing (I don't think) has been mentioned is that there are sound technical reasons for trying to consolidate the game around Horizons. Currently FDev have to support two versions (branches) of the game (base and Horizons). This adds a lot of overhead in terms of coding and testing. If you add another branch to support, then it quickly becomes untenable. The code would end up with lots of corner cases, switch statements, branching logic etc. It would be a nightmare to maintain. Much better to merge everyone into the latest branch

Better for FDev, yes.

From earlier in the thread:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/382948-quot-Season-3-quot-free-for-Horizon-owners-LEP-musings?p=6006015&viewfull=1#post6006015

 

[Dan Diplo]

Better for FDev, yes.

Surely reducing development/QA cost and time, reducing likelihood of bugs as well as increasing the player base is better for everyone?

 

[Riverside]

Surely reducing development/QA cost and time, reducing likelihood of bugs as well as increasing the player base is better for everyone?

My main issue is the amount of time development is taking, so yes I'd like to cut to the chase (I'm waiting for atmospheric landings primarily) but as I mention in the post I linked to, a non-branched solution is likely to disappoint either LEP owners, or non-LEP players. Branched is the ideal, cumulative works if the non-LEP player is happy to buy all expansions.

Base + Horizons seems likely to become the desired new minimum requirement.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

One thing (I don't think) has been mentioned is that there are sound technical reasons for trying to consolidate the game around Horizons. Currently FDev have to support two versions (branches) of the game (base and Horizons). This adds a lot of overhead in terms of coding and testing. If you add another branch to support, then it quickly becomes untenable. The code would end up with lots of corner cases, switch statements, branching logic etc. It would be a nightmare to maintain. Much better to merge everyone into the latest branch

Currently FD really, really want everybody move to Horizons. It's a win/win for them - way less technical issues, possibility to say goodbye to DX10, less support costs, and of course money from sales. That's why they are seriously sweetening the deal.

Also this time is bought by abandoning season concept. I assume some of ED developers are working in Season 3 in background (whatever it is hard to speculate), while rest of team keep upgrading core game, base stuff which rest of the game builds upon. I suspect unnamed expansion 3 announced at next Frontier Expo in 2018.

Reason why FD would want Horizons to be new base game is obvious from technical stand point - it uses all shiny tech they have developed for developing new things (like planet surfaces). To move forward they really have to move as much playerbase as they can to EDH.

I expect them to face similar problems in future when let's say they will need to move to DirectX12 due of performance requirements. Although with their own rendering team which seems to have very professional people who deliver results it might be less of an issue. I guess DX11.3 will stay true de facto render for ED for foreseeable future.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

My main issue is the amount of time development is taking, so yes I'd like to cut to the chase (I'm waiting for atmospheric landings primarily) but as I mention in the post I linked to, a non-branched solution is likely to disappoint either LEP owners, or non-LEP players. Branched is the ideal, cumulative works if the non-LEP player is happy to buy all expansions.

Base + Horizons seems likely to become the desired new minimum requirement.

It was their original goal which people openly rejected with Steam review bombing. Idea was that previous expansions are rolled into update with new season. For example, Season 3 would cost 60 USD, it would include base + Horizons + Season 3.

As this idea is cast aside, there's now a problem how to handle people who don't want to buy extensions sequentially. As for first season it is very special case - I don't expect Season 3 not to use DirectX11 rendering or 64-bit support. So in support scenario it doesn't change that much.

So I suspect it will end up Horizons being base game and next expansion will just add new gameplay only accessible to owners, but it won't change much of technical parts of code.

 

[Kayweg]

How do you work that one out. From what I can gather Horizons is about 4 months late give or take a few days.

Well, the original roadmap FD posted had season 2 conclude in late 2016.
"2.4 an beyond" now extends that to late 2018. (and that's assuming no further delays happen).
Whatever we or they call it, in effect this is still season 2 going and will be throughout 2018.
Is that a problem ? No, not for me at least, i think FX17 was good news.
But no need to deny it either, season 2 will clock 3 years at a minimum.

 

[madbilly]

I'm hoping that after the Beyond Horizons content year is done they'll return to a game expansion DLC model for future content. As others have mentioned, for things like "space legs," atmospheric worlds, and so on.

Don't assume that atmospheric landings, space legs etc will be sold as expansions.... they might be sold as entirely separate standalone games. If you search for the history of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters on the matter of expansion packs you might find some interesting reading.
(I know many people said the same as you, yours is just the quote that made me remember).

 

[WR3ND]

Since the lifetime of the game is not over yet there is no reason to be disappointed (yet). There is currently no way you can know if buying the LEP was a good deal or not and it was always like that.

Yes, as of yet there are no additional benefits in effect for paying 3 times more for Horizons and not for at least the next year as well, presumably. If people were expecting value for their money, there are some reasons for disappointment, so far.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Don't assume that atmospheric landings, space legs etc will be sold as expansions.... they might be sold as entirely separate standalone games. If you search for the history of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters on the matter of expansion packs you might find some interesting reading.
(I know many people said the same as you, yours is just the quote that made me remember).

Not gonna happen. Assuming they come they will be part of ED

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Don't assume that atmospheric landings, space legs etc will be sold as expansions.... they might be sold as entirely separate standalone games.

Why would they though? For space legs separation is very clean and precise - you don't get to stand up and walk around aaand pretty much that's it. For atmospheric planets - you don't get to land aaaaand pretty much it.

People theorycrafted about how Horizons will split player base. I have yet to see evidence about that happening (sans Engineers).

 

[madbilly]

I think they said that "Beyond" will be free to Horizons owners to avoid a drop in Horizons sales. Imagine if they'd said "Look at all this, we're going to release it in 3-6 months time but none will be free to existing players (except LEP holders)" - nobody would have bought Horizons for the next few months waiting to buy Beyond. This would have reduced cashflow for FDev, which is not good for any company, especially one that is working on a new game (JWE) with no pre-orders.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Don't assume that atmospheric landings, space legs etc will be sold as expansions.... they might be sold as entirely separate standalone games. If you search for the history of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters on the matter of expansion packs you might find some interesting reading.
(I know many people said the same as you, yours is just the quote that made me remember).

One of the most radiculous things I have read. So they sell non atmoshperic as an expasnion, but if you want to go down on an atmospheric planet, you will need to quit this game and start up a seperate game.

Don't look at games that are donkeys years old. What you can do today and what you could do back then is very different.

 

[WR3ND]

I think they said that "Beyond" will be free to Horizons owners to avoid a drop in Horizons sales. Imagine if they'd said "Look at all this, we're going to release it in 3-6 months time but none will be free to existing players (except LEP holders)" - nobody would have bought Horizons for the next few months waiting to buy Beyond. This would have reduced cashflow for FDev, which is not good for any company, especially one that is working on a new game (JWE) with no pre-orders.

Having Beyond Horizons at no additional cost to Horizons owners is a good thing, in my opinion. However, that doesn't add any value for LEP owners which paid the equivalent of two additional seasons/expansions for 60 USD each already two years ago.

 

[szopin]

Having Beyond Horizons at no additional cost to Horizons owners is a good thing, in my opinion. However, that doesn't add any value for LEP owners which paid the equivalent of two additional seasons/expansions for 60 USD each already two years ago.

3, the price for owners of base game was 45 in the end

 

[WR3ND]

3, the price for owners of base game was 45 in the end

Two additional beyond (lower case) Horizons, but yes, three including Horizons, which was on pre-sale at the time. I received a 15 USD discount on the LEP for already owning the base game.

People also received a discount on the pre-orders of Horizons for owning the base game, since at that point Horizons included the base game. This also included the Cobra Mk. IV and Black Friday paint job.

For a while Horizons was actually listed on Steam as an entirely different game for that reason. Fortunately Frontier changed to the "season" model to make more since in this respect, having it changed and priced accordingly as a DLC expansion to the base game.

 

[szopin]

Two additional beyond (lower case) Horizons, but yes, three including Horizons, which was on pre-sale at the time. I received a 15 USD discount on the LEP for already owning the base game.

Nope, 180 was including horizons, so 135USD left over, so for 3 updates at 45 per pop