Can we drop the "ED is not EVE" moaning?

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I've campaigned in elections, knocking on doors, writing and posting leaflets, commenting on websites, etc. I'm sure I only had a small effect on the world, but my political opponents couldn't physically attack me - they either had to accept I affected the world or do better than me in the door knocking/leafleting/commenting business. I enjoyed not being physically attacked in the real world, and I enjoy not being attacked in Elite.

Elite has set up a game world where not all actions can be stopped with violence. That's one reason why I bought the game.

Cheers, Phos.

Yet you feel you should be able to attack a player group in solo. I see. Ya'll wonder why features of the game are only used for modules month per month. And people are holding each others hands in colonia.

This is a game with lasers and multicannons. Just like spells and stuff in guildwars 2.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Almost true but not quite Ian. We are all playing with others via the BGS, whether we want to or not. There is no "opt out of BGS" mode.

Yet you feel you should be able to attack a player group in solo.

Whatever.

I 'hide' from the Xbox players on my PC. They never see me and I never see them. It's like I'm in Solo as far as another platform is concerned...... now - tell me about the problem that is that I never go into open with Xbox or PS4 players.

 

[Goose4291]

You'd be surprised how many people that don't agree with the way the 3 modes are set up, don't fall into that simple of a pigeon-hole. I can only speak for myself, but I don't like the way the 3 modes have equal weight when it comes to the BGS because it makes it unbalanced in favour of surprise influence shifts/attacks, whether intended or unintended by another player, from Solo/PG in my opinion. It allows for a toxic play style to just flourish with there being no means of retaliation when one side is completely hidden and thus completely immune. No consequences for one side basically. It pretty much incorporates the worst aspects of the internet, i.e. trolls and toxic types granted immunity from their actions via anonymity.

It's not always about being able to shoot people in the face. In simple terms it's about wanting to see who your potential challenger/opponent is, to see what you're up against and to have a means of communication with them rather than being confused as to why there is suddenly a knife sticking out of your back one day, so to speak, and not even able to ascertain why/how/when.

Just to clarify, I have no issue with there being 3 modes of play in ED. I think it's a good thing to be able to freely choose whenever you want to play with random players, or just your friends or just by yourself depending on your mood or for whatever reason. It's the equal weighting on BGS transactions that I find issue with and I really hope at some point Sandro Sammarco gets back to his idea of giving bonus weighting to players who work the BGS in Open. I just don't see it as being fair that all 3 modes have equal weighting on the BGS when the risk is not equal across the modes. Shutting off players in Solo/PG entirely from the BGS is far too draconian for my liking ergo I find Sandro's idea of bonus weighting while in Open would be a much fairer system than the way things are currently.

Which is the way most people I know look at it too.

Sadly people on the other side of the discussion will disregard that viewpoint it as misdirection pvp chest pumping.

 

[xzanfr]

If the current mode system is retained then this won't be an issue, whatever floats your boat.
If I have to interact with other players in my solo game then I'm not at all keen. I'm happy to have no influence in the bgs of other players, just don't force me to deal with multiplayer types.

 

[Sentience]

"ED is not EVE online!"
"Let's not turn this into EVE"
"Oh this is becoming EVE now, I'm out!"

This has been a topic brought up multiple times in the past, but never as often as recently, after FD announced the upcoming player "Squadrons" being able to own what's essentially a mobile base. So essentially a guild system.
A lot of people have long since argued that for long-time players to remain invested, you need to create something for them to care for, to maintain and own. On the other side of the argument, often times more of a reflex than an articulated opinion with reasons behind it, was the "ED is not EVE" movement. And to be perfectly honest I'm sick of hearing the same old complaint to be brought up time and again.

Yes, ED is not EVE. And a guild system won't turn it into EVE either. There's no way for player groups to restrict your movement in Elite. Space is really really big and you can always get to wherever you want. This is in sharp contrast to EVE online, with its less than 10.000 star systems. And here's the thing: Few people are even able to say anything beyond that initial "ED is not EVE" complaint. It's this weird reflex that anything EVE-like is bad, without justification.

Is it the ganking? We already got that here. At least ED has private groups and/or solo, so problem solved.
Is it the toxicity of the community? No game feature will make that better or worse. In fact, I'd argue that a proper C&P system does more to fix that, than a guild system could do to make it worse.
Is it elitism in game events? Well, remember Salome? Remember "all defending ships must be unarmed"? Tell me more about how there isn't already at least some scum and villainy, and how having actual player organisations in the game will make it "bad like EVE"...

No seriously. Stop moaning about Squadrons "turning ED into EVE". It's not.

Or if you think it is, and you have arguments to back up your complaint, bring them up. If they are able to stand on their own, then you probably don't have to mention EVE in the process, as if it was some kind of stigma.

Haven't seen anyone moaning about it until you started moaning.

Can we drop the "stop moaning about moaning" moaning threads?

People have different opinions on stuff. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Goose4291]

Whatever.

I 'hide' from the Xbox players on my PC. They never see me and I never see them. It's like I'm in Solo as far as another platform is concerned...... now - tell me about the problem that is that I never go into open with Xbox or PS4 players.

I think the difference (at least to me) is a technical wall rather than a player constructed one.

I fear we're veering off into hotel territory though...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Whatever.

I 'hide' from the Xbox players on my PC. They never see me and I never see them. It's like I'm in Solo as far as another platform is concerned...... now - tell me about the problem that is that I never go into open with Xbox or PS4 players.

Yeah, and if it were the same reduced influence in solo and private, Open would be worth the risk and reward. Otherwise whats the point of open period?

 

[AnotherVoice]

Because things like powerplay and player factions dont mean much. People feel griefed when they get shot at. Lots of features dont work because of it. Its not hard to see.

Even if we consider that to be true, Frontier isn't going to ditch all the old school Elite players from 10 years ago by deleting solo / private group.

These players are a considerable part of the community, and are looking for a similar experience from previous Elite version.

Actually, we could even say that Open was implemented for "new" people like you and me who probably expected something different from what this game was originaly aimed at.

That being said, i understand your point, but considering the history of the franchise, i don't believe mode fusion is going to happen anytime soon.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I think the difference (at least to me) is a technical wall rather than a player constructed one.

I fear we're veering off into hotel territory though...

Cause that the root of all the problems here.

 

[Martian Successor]

Whatever.

I 'hide' from the Xbox players on my PC. They never see me and I never see them. It's like I'm in Solo as far as another platform is concerned...... now - tell me about the problem that is that I never go into open with Xbox or PS4 players.

I don't know why you've instantly adopted a hostile stance toward my reply but okay. I never suggested you are "hiding". Feel free to read my reply a few posts back as per my stance on the whole 3 modes BGS thing, or not. Choice is yours.

EDIT: not being able to play with Xbox or PS4 CMDRs in Open is a technical issue and not really a problem of the way weighting in the BGS is equal across all game modes.

 

[Harley Quinn]

As long as it is not exclusive and the rewards not only obtainable for members of a guild - nothing. It usually isn't that way.

Giving squadrons control over territory will simply destroy the lore of the game and make all the background stories irrelevant. Removing content from lone players who are interested in the story of Elite.

FD already showed that they absolutely don't care about the lore of Elite if they can please some player group. They give lore relevant systems to player groups. Inject player groups alligned to a superpower into the space of an other superpower.

Step by step they are ruining their own lore.

Squadrons will make this faster and affect everybody.

It's not so much lore for me but realism. Half a dozen pilots could not control Earth now with its billions and I see no reason why they should in the future.

I'm ok with us tipping the balance on BGS stuff, we are supposed to be better than a standard commercial pilot or military pilot as we are pilots federation, and are an extra factor in mix, but controlling systems makes no sense.

Carriers and even bases, fine but I agree with you, only if anybody can. If the only barrier is cost so a group pooling resources can do it quicker that's ok. If I am excluded from content and benefits as I don't want to be in a group and I'm forced to join petty politics to gain a level playing field I think I'd get a bit salty.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Open, group, solo, are just game client connectivity modes. Each game client connects to the exact same game. Any arguments about 'hiding' are therefore moot.

Anyone arguing about group and solo, on an assumption that open is the one true connectivity mode, is being wilfully ignorant of the above to suit their own agenda.

Honestly, to be taking a goddamned videogame this seriously to be having such an argument... *shakes head* Are people so sad to be taking things this seriously?

 

[Phosphora]

Yet you feel you should be able to attack a player group in solo. I see. Ya'll wonder why features of the game are only used for modules month per month. And people are holding each others hands in colonia.

This is a game with lasers and multicannons. Just like spells and stuff in guildwars 2.

I'm playing a trading/mining/exploring game - I have no interest in PvP. If you don't like the tiny influence I have on the game you can trade to counteract it. Elite establishes a game world where not all actions can be stopped with violence.

The real world has rugby balls and baseball bats, but neither are compulsory.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Martian Successor]

Open, group, solo, are just game client connectivity modes. Each game client connects to the exact same game. Any arguments about 'hiding' are therefore moot.

Anyone arguing about group and solo, on an assumption that open is the one true connectivity mode, is being wilfully ignorant of the above to suit their own agenda.

Honestly, to be taking a goddamned videogame this seriously to be having such an argument... *shakes head* Are people so sad to be taking things this seriously?

A shame nobody reads the posts that aren't talking about "hiding" and are instead bringing up legitimate discussions about BGS weighting across the 3 modes. Ones that even the lead designer himself has mused on. Oh well.... everybody is too busy finding their inner salt.

Sidenote: not meaning to be mean or anything but if I recall correctly you are the guy who created the Captain's Log 3rd party tool. You saying that people are "sad" for taking a video game "this seriously" is a bit ironic

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I'm playing a trading/mining/exploring game - I have no interest in PvP. If you don't like the tiny influence I have on the game you can trade to counteract it. Elite establishes a game world where not all actions can be stopped with violence.

The real world has rugby balls and baseball bats, but neither are compulsory.

Cheers, Phos.

Then if thats how youre playing. Then you shouldnt have a problem with your influence reduced to 0 in that mode. You arent playing for anyone else but yourself.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that 1 lone player should be able to take on a whole group of players in the BGS?

Umm the fact I have, and have won 4 systems from them, kicked them out of another 3 and I'm busy dealing with them elsewhere.

Occasionally some friends give me a hand but it's mainly by myself, and that's because I play the BGS better than them and use better tactics.

So it's not that I think I should be able to, it's because I can and I am doing so. The fact I'm already at a disadvantage on numbers makes it hard, I don't need my enemy being given extra help on top of that. If they can't beat me on tactics with numbers they shouldn't be given extra help.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Sidenote: not meaning to be mean or anything but if I recall correctly you are the guy who created the Captain's Log 3rd party tool. You saying that people are "sad" for taking a video game "this seriously" is a bit ironic

Sidereply: Just because I made that application doesn't mean I'm taking the game at all seriously - in fact, I've gotten way more enjoyment programming that than I have from playing this game. The lessons, skills, and techniques I learned from doing that have been WAY more valuable to me than any time I wasted playing the game

 

[Ian Phillips]

EDIT: not being able to play with Xbox or PS4 CMDRs in Open is a technical issue and not really a problem of the way weighting in the BGS is equal across all game modes.

Not being able to play with Xbox or PS4 CMDRs is exactly the same as not being able to play with Commanders in Solo or a private group. There is no difference in anyones effect. There is a difference in play experience between the 3 modes. The same difference is also experienced on the Xbox platform and on the PS4 platform.

It is not a problem there....

 

[Martian Successor]

Umm the fact I have, and have won 4 systems from them, kicked them out of another 3 and I'm busy dealing with them elsewhere.

Occasionally some friends give me a hand but it's mainly by myself, and that's because I play the BGS better than them and use better tactics.

So it's not that I think I should be able to, it's because I can and I am doing so. The fact I'm already at a disadvantage on numbers makes it hard, I don't need my enemy being given extra help on top of that. If they can't beat me on tactics with numbers they shouldn't be given extra help.

Fair enough. But how do you feel they will be given extra help against you by essentially having a megaship?

 

[Ian Phillips]

I think the difference (at least to me) is a technical wall rather than a player constructed one.

I fear we're veering off into hotel territory though...

Well, if someone starts to go on about Modes being a problem - that is Hotel California territory!