Can we drop the "ED is not EVE" moaning?

[Phosphora]

Then if thats how youre playing. Then you shouldnt have a problem with your influence reduced to 0 in that mode. You arent playing for anyone else but yourself.

There are plenty of real world instances where you can affect other people without facing threats of physical violence. I can buy and sell in the real world and affect markets by a tiny amount, and Elite is a virtual version of that. I'll continue to nudge the real world without facing violence, and I'll keep doing the same in Elite, thanks very much.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Stigbob]

Then if thats how youre playing. Then you shouldnt have a problem with your influence reduced to 0 in that mode. You arent playing for anyone else but yourself.

I did my research before backing the game and I'm happy with the three modes and the BGS as they are, mostly because I knew what I was buying before I bought it and thought it was a clever approach.

A little more reading before buying would benefit you in future.

 

[Martian Successor]

Sidereply: Just because I made that application doesn't mean I'm taking the game at all seriously - in fact, I've gotten way more enjoyment programming that than I have from playing this game. The lessons, skills, and techniques I learned from doing that have been WAY more valuable to me than any time I wasted playing the game

Fair enough. You must have taken the game at least halfway seriously to be motivated enough to make a website and 3rd party tool based on it though?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Fair enough. You must have taken the game at least halfway seriously to be motivated enough to make a website and 3rd party tool based on it though?

I used my already-existing site at first, then I wanted some practice with some python-based CMS software, to augment my Python skills, so created a new Python-based site to go with the Python-based Captain's Log.

Everything I do, is most definitely for selfish reasons

An altruist I am not

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Well, if someone starts to go on about Modes being a problem - that is Hotel California territory!

Of course it is. Thats the best way to to end an argument. And at the same time. There is a reason it exists when it shouldnt at all.

Its a major flaw within this game. It started out as a great idea. But as the game has evolved its become to root of all the problems. And its why the game is a mile wide and an inch deep. Im sure youve heard that before.

If it wasnt a problem. people would be fighting over territory. PVP wouldnt be in the spot its in. Like do you people around here really think they created this game so PVPers would 1v1? And traders wouldnt be attacked. Lets get real here. Use your brains for 2 minutes.

This balancing act is heavily one sided to solo and private, and we havnt even touched engineers yet.

How many threads have you seen where someone comes in crying they got killed in open? Yet they can do everything in this game without ever stepping foot in it.

Once again, that thread exists for a reason. #1 its obviously a major problem. #2 anytime its brought up its shoved to the back burner. Well I got news for you people around here. You cant run from it forever.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I did my research before backing the game and I'm happy with the three modes and the BGS as they are, mostly because I knew what I was buying before I bought it and thought it was a clever approach.

A little more reading before buying would benefit you in future.

Yeah I read it too, Or hunt other commanders was on there too. Hard to do that when there is nothing to fight over. And killing X amount of ships that Are NPC, you know they thing you did when you started the game. They expect you to do that to fight over territory. Once again, thats why powerplay is only used for modules and people are singing kumbaya in colonia with a drum circle.

You guys really suck the Dangerous out of Elite Dangerous.

There are plenty of real world instances where you can affect other people without facing threats of physical violence. I can buy and sell in the real world and affect markets by a tiny amount, and Elite is a virtual version of that. I'll continue to nudge the real world without facing violence, and I'll keep doing the same in Elite, thanks very much.

Cheers, Phos.

This aint the real world. This is a game First and Foremost. Get over that hurdle and maybe you can see the problems here.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Of course it is. Thats the best way to to end an argument. And at the same time. There is a reason it exists when it shouldnt at all.

Its a major flaw within this game. It started out as a great idea. But as the game has evolved its become to root of all the problems. And its why the game is a mile wide and an inch deep. Im sure youve heard that before.

If it wasnt a problem. people would be fighting over territory. PVP wouldnt be in the spot its in. Like do you people around here really think they created this game so PVPers would 1v1? And traders wouldnt be attacked. Lets get real here. Use your brains for 2 minutes.

This balancing act is heavily one sided to solo and private, and we havnt even touched engineers yet.

How many threads have you seen where someone comes in crying they got killed in open? Yet they can do everything in this game without ever stepping foot in it.

Once again, that thread exists for a reason. #1 its obviously a major problem. #2 anytime its brought up its shoved to the back burner. Well I got news for you people around here. You cant run from it forever.

You continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding.

Those modes are merely client connectivity modes set against the one game that we are all playing.

The mile wide inch deep problem is down to extremely "simple" sets of disjointed minigames which comprise the whole - don't blame that on client connectivity modes.

 

[Harley Quinn]

EvE doesn't actually force a player into anything, aside from having a healthy level of paranoia and self-preservation instincts. One of many playstyles the game allows to exist is the Lone Wolf pirate, looking for 1v1s or outnumbered fights in LowSec. Many of the awesome PvPers in that game flourished in that regard. Although in the last 3 years the game has catered to said playstyle less and less. Having so many different playstyle options, from the station trader/market manipulator to the wormhole exploration loner, it's true that you can't do all the things, all the time, I can agree with that.

But introducing Squads and mobile bases in ED is hardly content locking. We already have Solo, PG and many other things that cater to the lone players. We definitely need more co-op stuff, and group vs group stuff in ED. It's multi-player after all…

I remember wormeholes being added. Even then it was moving to force you into groups if you wanted something like a POS for crafting and the organised groups had a louder voice and more influence over changes.

It was fun poking around some alliances null sec space via wormholes but even as a loner a few of us created our own corporations and alliance to gain access to what we needed. I was lucky with getting to know the right few people with us all having different but complimentary game styles, although the other [insert appropriate insults] members voted me in as boss so I just gave full access to everybody and we got on with things. But if I hadn't been lucky content would have been closed unless I joined others petty politics. Done that in other MMOs and regretted it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You continue to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding.

Those modes are merely client connectivity modes set against the one game that we are all playing.

The mile wide inch deep problem is down to extremely "simple" sets of disjointed minigames which comprise the whole - don't blame that on client connectivity modes.

No I get it. I know exactly how it works and whats going on. Im not misunderstanding anything.

 

[Harley Quinn]

Just this should be enough to dismiss anything you say. Can't discuss things like an adult, so why bother?

When other people complain, it's crying, when you complain it's constructive criticism right?

Well it is if I'm doing it

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

No I get it. I know exactly how it works and whats going on. Im not misunderstanding anything.

Then why continue to foam at the mouth blaming everything on client connectivity?

 

[Martian Successor]

Not being able to play with Xbox or PS4 CMDRs is exactly the same as not being able to play with Commanders in Solo or a private group. There is no difference in anyones effect. There is a difference in play experience between the 3 modes. The same difference is also experienced on the Xbox platform and on the PS4 platform.

It is not a problem there....

I think you may be missing my point. I'm talking about BGS transactions having equal weighting across all 3 modes when the risk is not equal across those modes. My opinion is that is not balanced well because 2 of those modes do not have the same consequences as working the BGS while in Open, i.e. in Open you can be seen by the other guy and thus either communicated with or shot on sight = increased risk.

There is no way for PC, Xbox and PS4 CMDRS to ever see each other no matter what, so that's a moot point because of a technical restriction. There is however a point in suggesting to implement Sandro's long lost idea of bonus weighting for BGS transactions performed in Open, across all the platforms. Basically all platforms get a small bonus weighting to BGS transactions made while in Open. It just seems fairer to me than the current system but that's just my opinion.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I think you may be missing my point. I'm talking about BGS transactions having equal weighting across all 3 modes when the risk is not equal across those modes. My opinion is that is not balanced well because 2 of those modes do not have the same consequences as working the BGS while in Open, i.e. in Open you can be seen by the other guy and thus either communicated with or shot on sight = increased risk.

There is no way for PC, Xbox and PS4 CMDRS to ever see each other no matter what, so that's a moot point because of a technical restriction. There is however a point in suggesting to implement Sandro's long lost idea of bonus weighting for BGS transactions performed in Open, across all the platforms. Basically all platforms get a small bonus weighting to BGS transactions made while in Open. It just seems fairer to me than the current system but that's just my opinion.

IIRC, Sandro was only suggesting weighting for PP activities, not for the BGS.

 

[Phosphora]

If it wasnt a problem. people would be fighting over territory

I'd personally find fighting over territory utterly tedious. Your mileage may vary and that's what I like about the modes. Frontier has embraced the richness of human diversity by allowing most people to find a niche they enjoy. Diversity exists, and so should the modes.

Cheers, Phos.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Once again, that thread exists for a reason.

It was closed when the forums were reorganised.

#1 its obviously a major problem.

In the opinion of some players, no doubt. Definitely not in the opinion of all players.

#2 anytime its brought up its shoved to the back burner.

The modes debate has its own forum now.

 

[Stigbob]

Yeah I read it too, Or hunt other commanders was on there too. Hard to do that when there is nothing to fight over. And killing X amount of ships that Are NPC, you know they thing you did when you started the game. They expect you to do that to fight over territory. Once again, thats why powerplay is only used for modules and people are singing kumbaya in colonia with a drum circle.

You guys really suck the Dangerous out of Elite Dangerous.

I play in open (and solo and group) and I like PVP.

If three modes having one BGS breaks the game for you and you knew about that setup before buying you really only have yourself to blame for how desperately unhappy you sound. Maybe you should play a different game, and try to avoid making the same mistake in future.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Then why continue to foam at the mouth blaming everything on client connectivity?

Its like im talking to brick walls around here. Is this a place of denial? On on Fdev forums people.

Powerplay is only used for modules, There is nothing to fight over in Elite Dangerous. PVP is looked down upon in this game because there is no context for it. People feel griefed in return. Solo and private allow people to play this game with the same reward open gives. Although open has more risk because of player dynamics.

Something has to give here.

Its not hard to see. Its pretty straight forward. And every single time this comes up. It turns out, "oh well I play in solo anyways" Or I play in open" yeah what do you do? Im a splorer" Well you arent really taking part in the things we are talking about anyways.

This also comes down to experience and getting involved with player groups, attacking through the BGS and PVP.

Ive done it all in this game. And so have many others. Me and many others see the design flaw here. This is a multiplayer game, but multiplayer activities suck because of it.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I play in open (and solo and group) and I like PVP.

If three modes having one BGS breaks the game for you and you knew about that setup before buying you really only have yourself to blame for how desperately unhappy you sound. Maybe you should play a different game, and try to avoid making the same mistake in future.

No. The game doesnt break it for me. Its broken for everyone. Yeah im using the word EVERYONE, because every single bit of it effects everyone. Just like engineers does from the top down. Just like the time vs time battle the BGS is. And so on. But hey, I dont know anything right? I havnt taken part in any of these things to know, its not like I havnt taught this stuff to anyone or anything...

 

[Robert Maynard]

IIRC, Sandro was only suggesting weighting for PP activities, not for the BGS.

Indeed - and, when asked, several months later, whether the pin had been pulled on the hand grenade he stated that it had not nor were there plans to do so.

 

[Martian Successor]

I used my already-existing site at first, then I wanted some practice with some python-based CMS software, to augment my Python skills, so created a new Python-based site to go with the Python-based Captain's Log.

Everything I do, is most definitely for selfish reasons

An altruist I am not

Dang selfish altruists! Always making things other people can use for free. I'm on to you mister!

IIRC, Sandro was only suggesting weighting for PP activities, not for the BGS.

I stand corrected in that case. Then I would be keen to see it implemented for the BGS as well if he ever revisits the idea.