Squadron wars

[Vicktore Beskor]

Hello commanders
With the advent of Squadrons coming to Elite Dangerous and taking some time to reflect on my last thread I have been thinking about how best can Frontier create a gameplay mechanics that would provide Squadrons to have wars against each other in a fair and enjoyable way.

Now I know their are going to be players who are against this idea right from the start but let me say some of the games that I have played in the past allowed this type of gameplay and it has always been enjoyable for those who like to participate in it.

So with that thought in mind I felt like it was something that could be discussed on the forums so that the developers can look at some of our ideas.And in order to keep the discussion objective I would like to say we keep the current conflict of the EDF and AEDC out of the discussion. The only thing I will say about it is there is room for improvement within that conflict I that is why I felt if there was some kind of gameplay mechanics that could be used it could make conflicts between Squadrons fun with less drama.

Now I am going to list a few of my thoughts and to make things easier let’s assume that squadrons are in some way connected to the minor factions that they support.

1-both sides have to agree to have a conflict
2-during a conflict their are no pilot Federation bounties for fighting on either sides.
3-during the conflict both sides are overt to each other’s systems
4-no outsiders can participate in the conflict
5-The conflict should come with some kind of cost and effect the BGS in some way for both sides
6-there should be some kind of goal system so that way we have a winner and loser and that the conflict dose not go on for ever
7- a ceasefire mechanism should be in place of one of the sides decide to end the conflict early
These are just a few ideas of mine I am interested on hearing more from the community.

Thank you
Founder Vicktore Beskor (EDF)
Fly Strong

 

[Koen]

4-no outsiders can participate in the conflict

So, if one commander in a wing would be attacked by a wing consisting of commanders his faction is in war with, his wingmates cannot defend him?

 

[Tadeus72]

The obvious war objective would be the carrier. Consecutive strikes should be able to disable it and bringing it up again would require time (autorepairs) or a lot of money (hiring an external npc repair crew to get it fast back again). But there should be also something you can gain - besides fun. The problem is that it would give squadron players an advantage vs the rest which a lot of ppl don't want. But I'm ok with squadron wars. This game needs some structured constructive pvp.

Maybe you could steal something from the enemy carrier once it's severely damaged that helps keeping the maintenance costs on you carrier low? Whatever it is it should be only a benefit within the new squadron system so it's fair vs the other gamers.

 

[Certacito]

Sorry OP, just sounds a bit like a thinly veiled way of getting the C&P lifted to allow non-consensual PvP again. Whilst I am with you on some of it and would like for the Squadron carriers to be employable in a number of ways, I think this plan as laid out in your post is a highway to disappointment and salt.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

So, if one commander in a wing would be attacked by a wing consisting of commanders his faction is in war with, his wingmates cannot defend him?

I would think if you are in a wing that your wing mates should be able to help you in the fight right at that moment but once the wings is broken up if they are not apart of the squadron then they wouldn’t be able to help.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Sorry OP, just sounds a bit like a thinly veiled way of getting the C&P lifted to allow non-consensual PvP again. Whilst I am with you on some of it and would like for the Squadron carriers to be employable in a number of ways, I think this plan as laid out in your post is a highway to disappointment and salt.

I respectfully disagree with you because the lift on pilot Federation bounties would only apply to those in the conflict anyone else would be subject to C&P rules

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Hello commanders
With the advent of Squadrons coming to Elite Dangerous and taking some time to reflect on my last thread I have been thinking about how best can Frontier create a gameplay mechanics that would provide Squadrons to have wars against each other in a fair and enjoyable way.

By not doing it.

#1 - This goes against what Elite, especially Elite in Open play is.
#2 - Is doable, but will take considerable recoding, and probably more trouble than it's worth.
#3 - See #2
#4 - Good luck with that - see #1. The first time someone can't stick their nose in someone else's business, it's an Exploit.
#5 - Isn't this Power Play anyways?
#6 - Like what? Kill X-number of The Other Guy? Now this is sounding like a CQC Team Deathmatch.
#7 - Surrender?

Honestly, this just sounds like turning Elite into CQC Team Deathmatch overall. Count me out.

 

[Certacito]

I respectfully disagree with you because the lift on pilot Federation bounties would only apply to those in the conflict anyone else would be subject to C&P rules

I wasn't suggesting YOU wanted a way to lift C&P, I meant (and didn't do a very good job of articulating), I think it would be open to abuse and exploitation as it is offered in your original post. I do like the idea, but there needs to be a proper mechanic around it or it will be a salt fest

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

I wasn't suggesting YOU wanted a way to lift C&P, I meant (and didn't do a very good job of articulating), I think it would be open to abuse and exploitation as it is offered in your original post. I do like the idea, but there needs to be a proper mechanic around it or it will be a salt fest

I very much agree with you I would not want it be a griefer fest and I would not like it to set the Galaxy on fire as well.

 

[Tadeus72]

IndigoWyrd. I think you didn't think this over. Everyone can attack any other player in Open and this idea won't change that. But normally this would give them the PD bounty and rebuy penalty. There is already an exception from this - opposite powerplay factions. Giving squadron the option to agree to a war changes nothing in the game. You can still attack whoever you wish, but it will come with C&P if it isn't a powerplay target or an enemy squadron (and both squadrons agreed to the war).

 

[IndigoWyrd]

IndigoWyrd. I think you didn't think this over. Everyone can attack any other player in Open and this idea won't change that. But normally this would give them the PD bounty and rebuy penalty. There is already an exception from this - opposite powerplay factions. Giving squadron the option to agree to a war changes nothing in the game. You can still attack whoever you wish, but it will come with C&P if it isn't a powerplay target or an enemy squadron (and both squadrons agreed to the war).

So basically Power Play without Power Play for people who want to play Power Play without committing to Power Play.

See, all thought out.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

IndigoWyrd. I think you didn't think this over. Everyone can attack any other player in Open and this idea won't change that. But normally this would give them the PD bounty and rebuy penalty. There is already an exception from this - opposite powerplay factions. Giving squadron the option to agree to a war changes nothing in the game. You can still attack whoever you wish, but it will come with C&P if it isn't a powerplay target or an enemy squadron (and both squadrons agreed to the war).

Both side agreeing to the war I feel is very important and there has to be some kind of end games rule set so that the War dose not last for ever.

 

[Tadeus72]

Yeah, like powerplay but actually more fair if it comes to griefing. There are a lot of powerplay players who don't want any pvp and in the current system are still pvp targets who can be killed without any C&P. As a squadron member you and your friends as a group would first have to agree to pvp (and get to select against which group).

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Both side agreeing to the war I feel is very important and there has to be some kind of end games rule set so that the War dose not last for ever.

Which is what makes this Team Deathmatch/Power Play without Power Play.

But then, I have no interest in shooting at other players whatsoever.

You guys want to camp out at this station in this system, go right ahead. There's plenty of room for every ship. Enjoy.
There's absolutely zero point to killing each other over it.

"War does not prove who is wrong or right, only who is left."

Seeing as how there are more star systems than players in the game, arguing about a single system... ever watch a pair of two year olds with a stack of blocks, where each one wants the blocks the other one has? At the end of the day, they both end up crying, and 49 of 50 blocks still sit in the same pile.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

And I would like to see faction be apart of it so that let’s say both sides are Federation you could have some kind of election mechanism so that non-combat like trade could win the conflict

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

Which is what makes this Team Deathmatch/Power Play without Power Play.

But then, I have no interest in shooting at other players whatsoever.

You guys want to camp out at this station in this system, go right ahead. There's plenty of room for every ship. Enjoy.
There's absolutely zero point to killing each other over it.

"War does not prove who is wrong or right, only who is left."

Seeing as how there are more star systems than players in the game, arguing about a single system... ever watch a pair of two year olds with a stack of blocks, where each one wants the blocks the other one has? At the end of the day, they both end up crying, and 49 of 50 blocks still sit in the same pile.

I respectfully disagree with you there many commanders out there fighting BGS wars already this would provide a structure and rules set to follow

 

[Crank Larson]

Seeing as how there are more star systems than players in the game

If this is ever not the case, then we're in trouble. This planet couldn't support 400 billion players.

I'll be watching the Squadron debates with interest, though have little intention of getting involved.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I respectfully disagree with you there many commanders out there fighting BGS wars already this would provide a structure and rules set to follow

To what end? What do these commanders gain from all this trouble? Their name in lights? A stipend from the station administrators in those systems? Discounts on tea? Free parking?

That's the real problem with the whole "fighting over space" here. It's 100% pointless. You gain nothing. No one gains anything.

Oh, so your faction is listed as the Controlling Faction in Some System.

And?

Can you direct the system authority ships to patrol a specific reason?
Set the trade prices on commodities?
Impose tariffs on goods from other systems?
Dock without permission?

No. You get nothing.
No benefit whatsoever.

So, it's pointless.

 

[Vicktore Beskor]

To what end? What do these commanders gain from all this trouble? Their name in lights? A stipend from the station administrators in those systems? Discounts on tea? Free parking?

That's the real problem with the whole "fighting over space" here. It's 100% pointless. You gain nothing. No one gains anything.

Oh, so your faction is listed as the Controlling Faction in Some System.

And?

Can you direct the system authority ships to patrol a specific reason?
Set the trade prices on commodities?
Impose tariffs on goods from other systems?
Dock without permission?

No. You get nothing.
No benefit whatsoever.

So, it's pointless.

I can understand your point of view if the BGS means nothing to you and all you want to do is be a space hobo. But some commanders enjoy manipulating the BGS for the fun of it and some commanders enjoy fighting in wars what this will provide is a way so that they can do so with it being a long drawn out event and keep it with in some kind of rule set. And as always if you don’t want to participate you don’t have to you can go on living your life as a free and happy space hobo forever.

And I would like to make one point I have been an advocate for proper fleet mechanics for over two years now and I have gotten a ton of negative comments about it and was told it would never happen and now we have squadrons coming to Elite Dangerous. So I felt that this should be the next logical discussion.
This discussion is about creating gameplay mechanics that squadrons can participate in and making them enjoyable and immersive.

 

[Koen]

"fighting over space"

Why does it have to be fighting over space?

I could, for example, imagine a slave trading squadron being at war with an underground railroad squadron.