"Beyond" free for Horizon owners - LEP musings

[ndrwc]

A company will always prefer to give free content (or a voucher) rather that actual cash, if they have the choice. Product has a margin, so the cost to the company is reduced while the perceived value to the customer remains unchanged.

If there are no future paid expansions to make up the value of the LEP, they could always cash out store credit.

 

[Riverside]

If there are no future paid expansions to make up the value of the LEP, they could always cash out store credit.

They could, yes and in their position I guess I'd make that offer, and hope some would take it.

However as the customer if I bought a bunch of stuff on Amazon, and some of it didn't arrive because it was no longer available, I'd expect a refund for goods not delivered. I may accept an offer of a voucher, but I would expect a refund. If the product was significantly delayed I might appreciate some concession by way of apology, but I wouldn't expect it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

They could, yes and in their position I guess I'd make that offer, and hope some would take it.

However as the customer if I bought a bunch of stuff on Amazon, and some of it didn't arrive because it was no longer available, I'd expect a refund for goods not delivered. I may accept an offer of a voucher, but I would expect a refund. If the product was significantly delayed I might appreciate some concession by way of apology, but I wouldn't expect it.

As other expansions where never given a date, then nothing has been delayed and we now know that there will be more paid for premium content coming next year sometime. They really do not need to offer a partial refund or store credit yet.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

The only people that really means anything to are PvP people. But that means without horizons it is a time to win game, basically the more time you get the better ship you have.

Also when I bought horizons I wasn't suddenly better then anyone else. In fact I didn't even touch the engineers for about 5 months after they got released.

No real difference.

no npc have RNGneer mods too, anyone that dont have horizons will be at a disadvantage against them npcs

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

It isn't pay2win simply because Horizons is a fundamental part of the game and everyone who plays Elite is supposed to own it. It's not just the most recent version of the game, it's also the way development is funded and everyone enjoying their free updates without paying for the expansions is a parasite (hyperbole!!! I consider everyone to be beautiful people). The term pay2win comes from games where you can buy specific buffs that will directly improve your chances against others, making twice as much damage, more healing potions, etc. You can buy these buffs immediately before or during combat. Horizons on the other hand is more like an expansion that raises the maximum character level, if that's pay2win than every MMO would be pay2win by your definition and you wouldn't have a point anymore.
If people want to compete they should get the newest version of the game. It's not a single perk or buff, but simply the journey and direction this game and development is heading. Don't like things changing? Don't buy a game that is in constant development.



Because we must always assume the worst. I am pretty sure that Zac is the reincarnation of Hitler, at least he didn't say he isn't. That's very suspicious.

if its a fundamental part of the game should it not have been in there from the begining ?

 

[babelfisch]

if its a fundamental part of the game should it not have been in there from the begining ?

No, because FDEV always said that there will be no complete game in the beginning and that it will be under constant development for many years to come. Horizons is one part of it.

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

No, because FDEV always said that there will be no complete game in the beginning and that it will be under constant development for many years to come. Horizons is one part of it.

well whats your point then.... why is RNGneers fundamental to the game

this "The term pay2win comes from games where you can buy specific buffs that will directly improve your chances against others, making twice as much damage, more healing potions"
is exatly whgat RNGneers is

 

[WR3ND]

no npc have RNGneer mods too, anyone that dont have horizons will be at a disadvantage against them npcs

The NPCs don't have much, and I think they removed most if not all of the weapon mods for them. The only things I've engineered on my ships so far are the FSDs for jump range, and I have no problem getting along just fine, even piloting mostly only small ships as I prefer to.

Benefits for playing the game over the min/max meta, I suppose. This is my main exploration ship. → https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vul...loBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=&bn=The Ronin WR3-1V

 

[Mr_Foxhound]

The NPCs don't have much, and I think they removed most if not all of the weapon mods for them. The only things I've engineered on my ships so far are the FSDs for jump range, and I have no problem getting along just fine, even piloting mostly only small ships as I prefer to.

Benefits for playing the game over the min/max meta, I suppose. This is my main exploration ship. → https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vul...loBhAOEoUwIYHMA28QgIwV0A=&bn=The Ronin WR3-1V

so what

 

[WR3ND]

so what

Even without using Engineers, people aren't at a significant disadvantage contending with the NPCs in the game, if at one at all. They've been fairly well kept docile for the sake of ease for the apparent majority that had a hissy over having to deal with a competent challenge in the game back when 2.1 came out.

 

[Nevada]

In addition to all the content talked about at Frontier Expo, we also have some pretty cool things in the works which will be available to purchase.

Another year of waiting for such "pretty cool" things.

 

[two quiet suns]

Lord almighty! 2.4 hasn't even played out yet!

 

[Jex =TE=]

Even without using Engineers, people aren't at a significant disadvantage contending with the NPCs in the game, if at one at all. They've been fairly well kept docile for the sake of ease for the apparent majority that had a hissy over having to deal with a competent challenge in the game back when 2.1 came out.

Yep don't think there's much issue with the AI at all right now with modded items and the issue only presents itself if you a) want to play PVP or possibly b) where you're in SP but you're trying to swtich a system over and someone else in SP is doing the same but has modded stuff?

Even in PVP though, everyone should remember that you're either G5 or you're not participating so even then is it really pay-to-win since you don't pay and then win - you pay - grind - grind - grind - grind - win?

Nobody with G3 rolls is going serious PVP put it that way.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Engineers is a big perk and so its pay to win. I'd expect the same for Beyond. I do not have a problem with this, its a good game business model.

Rubbish, Horizons is paid content. I do wonder about some peoples ability for comprehension.

 

[Blaze Stark]

Kudos to Zac!

Players were asking a reasonable question and got a reasonable answer.

I do feel reassured. Thank you.

----

Regarding the contentious issue of a 10 year plan:

Before seeing today's good news from Zac, I went digging through Frontier's 2017 Annual Report for lifetime expansion pass info and found this nugget:

"Non-current deferred income is due to be recognised over the expected remaining life of the franchise period. At 31 May 2017 the expected remaining life of the franchise is considered to be four and a half years.The deferred revenue is in respect of Elite Dangerous lifetime expansion passes purchased during the financial year and Elite Dangerous:Horizons revenue in respect of future promised content.The carrying values of deferred income are considered to be a reasonable approximation of fair value."

So it would appear the official plan runs through 2022. The game launched at the end of 2014, so let's call it eight years. Make of that what you will.

Quoting without source, though... Sound like something for the shareholders and general guestimating.

 

[Blaze Stark]

The 'E' in 'LEP' stands for 'Expansion'. I don't think that making up the value of the LEP with cosmetics would be a good move and I don't think it's something that FDev would try to pull. I never liked the idea of exclusive ships because they can't make them anything other than average as it would be unfair to others. I have access to the CobMkIV but I don't think I ever flew it outside of the initial beta. It really has to be something substantial which adds gameplay and is available to others for purchase or the level of meltdown would make offline-gate seem tame in comparison.

That's the speculation I'm going with.

When i bought in, it was just called 'Lifetime Pass' IIRC.

 

[Blaze Stark]

I wish Frontier would be more clear when throwing around statements like "Free" and "Premium".

Right now there are a lot of CMDRs expecting all of the beyond updates to be free however Zacs said statement seems to indicate this is not the case at all.

It may be in frontiers interest to let people know exactly what is free in beyond and what is paid for.

"We are not ready to talk about it" is not a good move when you have a large section of the player base expecting to get something for free when clearly this isn't the case.

Geez, the statement came up in the first place because people started to complain in this thread. So now they got an answer and the complaininmg contuinue. I dont want to switch with FD, the crowdcontroll would be to much and i would start to insult people.

 

[Toumal]

Do NPCs have LEPs too? Do we care? Is this discussion what "lifetime" means kinda stupid?

The answer to all of the above is blue.

 

[Montague]

Quoting without source, though... Sound like something for the shareholders and general guestimating.

I thought "Frontier's 2017 Annual Report" made it clear what the source was.

Here's the link: https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...eleases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf

It's on page 45.

That's about as official as it gets. FD is accountable to its shareholders.

So I assume 2022 is the end of the plan. Those of us who thought there was a ten year plan were only two years off. Plans, of course, can change and I certainly hope the game lives beyond 2022.

 

[Blaze Stark]

OK, sorry i actually missed that part. Thank you for the link! Still, i think that these informations are rather conservative and im sure ED 'hope' to let the game life much longer than that. Anyway, the future will tell.