Star Citizen Thread v6

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Is that the latest alien species in the 'Verse?

I hope the aliens from the Hemorrh system don't show up. ;)

Edit: on topic. Partial transcript by SomethingJones on the SA forum.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Cockpits: Enhancing the Experience
Oct 12, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNoDLNkILM#t=370s
@ 04:50

Wilmslow QA Dev
Once we've figured out the last 10001 disconnect issue, we've got a build here from the UK, just deployed from... that was kicked off earlier this afternoon that should... the fixes for the disconnect seem like they've 'taken', we could get another code build done or a full build if we absolutely needed to, go through the process of putting that up to the Evocati so that we can get them... those fixes rolled out to them today, ah.. which is good... a couple of...

Chris Roberts
Eh, ahhh I wanted... to mention it at project leadership meeting but it's important that the... QUALITATIVE feedback, uh... is filtered through, ah... TARD... and we'll make priority calls on it 'cos... there's some STUFF like you know, the 10001 error codes, yes with them we're definitely... we're definitely fixing, but then you know there's some SUBJECTIVE feedback of like, "I don't like THIS or I do like THIS" or whatever, now some of those issues they're calling out we already know about we're already working at addressing...

I always get a bit WORRIED because first of all we're getting ah... kind of SUBJECTIVE feedback that's sort of ANECDOTAL and so you know someone can have a strong OPINION but you know like, that could be THEIR opinion and maybe different to someone ELSE'S opinion as to whether it's a bug or not... so it has to go through the FILTER of us on the very HIGH LEVEL of the kind of DESIGN SIDE to make sure that you know, it's something that we wanna AGREE because a lot of the times people can't see the BIG PICTURE when they're making, ah... you know... FEEDBACK 'cos they don't know where the, you know, they're like, "WELL THIS IS MISSING! I NEED THIS!" and we're like 'yeah, no we know it's missing', it's kind of like on our TASK LIST, we're working on it right now, and we understand that... you know... it hurts your ability to dogfight if you can't see the status of your TARGET... or the status of your SHIP

Um, so... so I just wanna make sure we do that 'cos we're all worried that we automate it, some of these like subjective feedback get re-upped to JIRA, they get put in somebody's BUCKET, maybe they get ASSIGNED and you know... we'll spend some time working on stuff that needs to have... kind of... ahh... DIRECTION and... and... and... and... ORDER and PRIORITY called out.

SOMETIMES what people want to get FIXED, the solution is SOMEWHERE ELSE to fix the issue they're complaining about... so on the subjective stuff I kinda wanna make sure that, um... we're going through a FILTER on that.
 
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I hope the aliens from the Hemorrh system don't show up. ;)

Edit: on topic. Partial transcript by SomethingJones on the SA forum.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Cockpits: Enhancing the Experience
Oct 12, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNoDLNkILM#t=370s
@ 04:50

Wilmslow QA Dev
Once we've figured out the last 10001 disconnect issue, we've got a build here from the UK, just deployed from... that was kicked off earlier this afternoon that should... the fixes for the disconnect seem like they've 'taken', we could get another code build done or a full build if we absolutely needed to, go through the process of putting that up to the Evocati so that we can get them... those fixes rolled out to them today, ah.. which is good... a couple of...

Chris Roberts
Eh, ahhh I wanted... to mention it at project leadership meeting but it's important that the... QUALITATIVE feedback, uh... is filtered through, ah... TARD... and we'll make priority calls on it 'cos... there's some STUFF like you know, the 10001 error codes, yes with them we're definitely... we're definitely fixing, but then you know there's some SUBJECTIVE feedback of like, "I don't like THIS or I do like THIS" or whatever, now some of those issues they're calling out we already know about we're already working at addressing...

I always get a bit WORRIED because first of all we're getting ah... kind of SUBJECTIVE feedback that's sort of ANECDOTAL and so you know someone can have a strong OPINION but you know like, that could be THEIR opinion and maybe different to someone ELSE'S opinion as to whether it's a bug or not... so it has to go through the FILTER of us on the very HIGH LEVEL of the kind of DESIGN SIDE to make sure that you know, it's something that we wanna AGREE because a lot of the times people can't see the BIG PICTURE when they're making, ah... you know... FEEDBACK 'cos they don't know where the, you know, they're like, "WELL THIS IS MISSING! I NEED THIS!" and we're like 'yeah, no we know it's missing', it's kind of like on our TASK LIST, we're working on it right now, and we understand that... you know... it hurts your ability to dogfight if you can't see the status of your TARGET... or the status of your SHIP

Um, so... so I just wanna make sure we do that 'cos we're all worried that we automate it, some of these like subjective feedback get re-upped to JIRA, they get put in somebody's BUCKET, maybe they get ASSIGNED and you know... we'll spend some time working on stuff that needs to have... kind of... ahh... DIRECTION and... and... and... and... ORDER and PRIORITY called out.

SOMETIMES what people want to get FIXED, the solution is SOMEWHERE ELSE to fix the issue they're complaining about... so on the subjective stuff I kinda wanna make sure that, um... we're going through a FILTER on that.

So, what i take away from that is the UK office is now working on the actual builds? Guuess they really are waiting on stuff from SC before they can finish SQ42.... or CR has basically said forget SQ42, let's focus on SC.
 
So, what i take away from that is the UK office is now working on the actual builds? Guuess they really are waiting on stuff from SC before they can finish SQ42.... or CR has basically said forget SQ42, let's focus on SC.

More inclined to think it's the latter. They've done it when pushing to get show demos together on time.
 
I hope the aliens from the Hemorrh system don't show up. ;)

Edit: on topic. Partial transcript by SomethingJones on the SA forum.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Cockpits: Enhancing the Experience
Oct 12, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNoDLNkILM#t=370s
@ 04:50

Wilmslow QA Dev
Once we've figured out the last 10001 disconnect issue, we've got a build here from the UK, just deployed from... that was kicked off earlier this afternoon that should... the fixes for the disconnect seem like they've 'taken', we could get another code build done or a full build if we absolutely needed to, go through the process of putting that up to the Evocati so that we can get them... those fixes rolled out to them today, ah.. which is good... a couple of...

Chris Roberts
Eh, ahhh I wanted... to mention it at project leadership meeting but it's important that the... QUALITATIVE feedback, uh... is filtered through, ah... TARD... and we'll make priority calls on it 'cos... there's some STUFF like you know, the 10001 error codes, yes with them we're definitely... we're definitely fixing, but then you know there's some SUBJECTIVE feedback of like, "I don't like THIS or I do like THIS" or whatever, now some of those issues they're calling out we already know about we're already working at addressing...

I always get a bit WORRIED because first of all we're getting ah... kind of SUBJECTIVE feedback that's sort of ANECDOTAL and so you know someone can have a strong OPINION but you know like, that could be THEIR opinion and maybe different to someone ELSE'S opinion as to whether it's a bug or not... so it has to go through the FILTER of us on the very HIGH LEVEL of the kind of DESIGN SIDE to make sure that you know, it's something that we wanna AGREE because a lot of the times people can't see the BIG PICTURE when they're making, ah... you know... FEEDBACK 'cos they don't know where the, you know, they're like, "WELL THIS IS MISSING! I NEED THIS!" and we're like 'yeah, no we know it's missing', it's kind of like on our TASK LIST, we're working on it right now, and we understand that... you know... it hurts your ability to dogfight if you can't see the status of your TARGET... or the status of your SHIP

Um, so... so I just wanna make sure we do that 'cos we're all worried that we automate it, some of these like subjective feedback get re-upped to JIRA, they get put in somebody's BUCKET, maybe they get ASSIGNED and you know... we'll spend some time working on stuff that needs to have... kind of... ahh... DIRECTION and... and... and... and... ORDER and PRIORITY called out.

SOMETIMES what people want to get FIXED, the solution is SOMEWHERE ELSE to fix the issue they're complaining about... so on the subjective stuff I kinda wanna make sure that, um... we're going through a FILTER on that.

Further along, same source:

Chris Roberts
I think what Erin... Erin was saying was actually what I was gonna kind of bring up, which was... you know... the way I look at it we're in Evocati now, we've got 800 testers instead of 70 testers... and we should be looking to deliver a build every day if we can to them 'cos we have the DELTA PATCHER... but... the key is not so much about, 'oh we've got one blocker, there's a crash here or a deadlock here', which was sort of the approach we were taking in like getting it to Evocati... the KEY is like, 'OK! What bits of the thing we've still left to do are vying for this coming MONDAY', what about this coming TUESDAY cos... I don't wanna have like only one blocker fixed, right? Cos we've got people finishing CONTENT, you know, doing LIGHTING, you know...

OK? And we... you know... these... these three areas have now being LIT, have they gone in? This SHIP has now been brought over to item two point zero has it gone in? That's kind of it, cos what we actually want to do is have a steady stream of... ah... you know... things are getting like... FINISHED OFF or FIXED UP... putting in... and we want an... "Ok, here's an Evocati, here's the things that have gone in that we think we've fixed', cos you're basically... you've just got to sort of manage that over time so we've... we've got to get into that MODE as opposed to the... you know... what three bugs have we got to fix before we CAN go to Evocati

Quite astute there, Chris old boy. The problem is indeed that you are so focused on finishing content when there's no game to finish it for; that you've been so caught up in the last 5 years with making splashy things, and not paying attention to fundamental game and engine mechanics; that all you're doing is ships, ships, ships, when what you should be doing is network, physics, network, game loops, network, network, economy, oh and network.

That sounds about the only sensible thing that you'e said since this old thing:

“We're now a year in. Two more years to make it to release, beyond that it starts to get stale.”
— Chris Roberts, late 2012.
 
I haven't been keeping up with this thread or with SC development. However, I watched the recent "10 for the Chairman". It was allegedly about professions in Alpha 3.0. Alpha 3.0 is allegedly coming out soon (ish). But listening to Mr Roberts's answers, he appears to be uncertain about what features and functionality will be in Alpha 3.0. Phrases like "we'd like to" and "I would say we'll" don't sound like a developer with a pinned down feature list. I'm pleased however to hear that "changing a fuse" still counts as compelling gameplay in some future version of Star Citizen.

I think that to some degree the presenters drifted off-topics to discuss future builds, but the general impression I got was that Alpha 3.0 is still being designed, let alone developed or tested. So the called-out ( e vocati) troupe of unpaid testers may be testing a pre-Alpha build of Alpha 3.0. What I take away from this is that I shouldn't expect Alpha 3.0 anytime soon, or at best it will be a minimal shell to be built on by future releases.

On a different topic, I was pleased to hear Ed Lewis refusing to say anything negative about Star Citizen on last night's FD stream. There's no need for tribalism amongst gamers, and there's plenty of room for more space games. Seems to me there's nothing FD would like more than a flourishing ecosystem of space games.

EL need to be a professional, you don't bash your competitors even if you don't like them, it will boomerang back in your face one day, just look at CR and SC.

There are numours of examples where they bashed other games even ED. So I'm pleased too that they keep the professional relation on all levels.

However I still chuckle at some of the wild announcements from CIG.

"Our ProcGen will be like no one has ever seen before" yup that's true, it's like giving a monkey a set of color pencils and selling it as a Rembrandt painting.
 
I think FD just operates with different logic than online gaming community, which can be very tribal. FD sees it as friendly competition - even if Chris sometimes gets irked about comparitions - and they know that do ED succeed or not it's in their own hands. People have been always saying 'ED will die when SC arrive' and I have always wonder why do you even want that to happen?

It is just very different in real life.

A little confused about what you mean. FD's behavior is very common in the real world among "professionals" or "adults". Plus even tho they are both supposed to be space sims they are not doing the same or have the same approach. PLUS we are talking about a video game which means you dont have to "make a decision" but you can have both. If the real world is anything its all things being different but able to co-exist. This counts for different species as well as for humans which are all individually unique. Children usually dont know that initially and react threatened or scared whenever they encounter an opposing opinion or a vastly different thing. For some people "handling opposing opinions" is a life-long development which they never quite master.

Why Chris is using other games as an example.....

1. he needs other games to establish a base line because his own game is unable to provide that. The idea of a remake Wing Commander was sufficient for kickstarter but was outdated afterwards. Too many people who havent played the original WC, if you wanted to evoke positive feelings or nostalgia you needed something the todays gamer can relate to. CoG is a prime candidate because even tho its discussed controversial when it comes to the community the game itself obviously was successful beyond believe and captured millions attention. So even tho CiG had NOTHING on its own they could show for FPS purposes all they had to do was take CoD as an example and claim SC is going to be "more deadly" and "realistic". I remind you that even back at the time of this statement Chris had NO examples on how to achieve that. He simply piggybacked another games success. ED which soon outpaced SC in development progress tho both games started at about the same time had to provide the same baseline. But because Chris felt "threatened" by FD's progress he had to add all kinds of things ED doesnt have or make sure to mention that SC's features will be superior (PG for example). The reason for being threatened is that Star Citizen being unable to provide its own living breathing universe yet held a very weak attention span. Fans only had their dreams to hang on to and thats not very nourishing. ED was considered "boring" by many but at least you were able to lose yourself in it for hours at a time or enjoy screenshots readily whenever you like.

In this regard Star Citizen is like a leech sucking off other companies successes without achieving any of its own. Its vision is unique and has not been achieved yet but then not even CiG is able to show a success on that goal. If anything the more details we get about its features and mechanics the more it becomes apparent that Star Citizen will be unable to fulfill its own goals and worse, its creators themselves have no idea how to do it. Every patch for Star Citizen wasnt given voluntarily by CiG. Pretty much every major patch was "forced" out of them after the community started to become restless. And because of that every major patch fell flat on its face upon release. CiG never was "ahead of development" because they were always busy catching up to other companies successes. They managed to establish a "wait and see until OUR game comes out" attitude but because development never sleeps other companies announcing new content or features had a direct impact on Star Citizen which was still struggling to even reach the OLD versions. All of a sudden they found themselves in a competition they are not ready nor qualified for. That they were able to compete for all these years is only possible because there are so many SC backers who were willing to "take words for facts from CiG" while at the same time demanding hard evidence from everybody else. Well reality has caught up with them and as expected, whatever they can provide is subpar and only demonstrates that they were running on fumes for the last few years.

2. a sizable fanbase demands results and a company of CiG's size needs a large fanbase to keep it running (somebody has to pay the 2-3 million dollar tab each month). Pretty much everything these days has a fanbase. The average blogger or streamer who isnt yet quite recognized or has achieved celebrity status STILL has a fanbase of dozens to hundreds of people. Take any sports team regardless how sucky they are when it comes to success will STILL hold a small pool or people hanging on and being loyal. And most of these people dont do it for the money but do something thats fun to them and pay out of their own pocket to do it. And then you have the internet celebrities who are so popular and command so much attention that they are able to make it their way of living and not even exist but prosper by doing it, having large luxury houses, driving sports cars or jetting around the world all funded by other peoples money. Of course this level of attention doesnt come free else everybody would do it. It requires "something" in return that captivates people and there are no boundaries to achieve that. Presenting yourself as the fool or clown, being charismatic, covering interesting topics every day, being unique in a sea of shapeshifters all trying to copy you, having female physical assets (sorry girls but its the truth, the way most female bloggers sell their body for attention sickens me), clickbait or outright cheating others for a one-time success.




Like every big fanbase there will be tribalism among each other (our team versus their team) and its not uncommon for companies or sport teams to make a good show in order to underline the differences always presenting you in the best possible light. In sports its relaxed entertainment good for laughs and helping you to enjoy yourself. Friendly banter and ribbing the opposing team is common. Of course there are always these certain individuals who take it too far or too personal. Every fanbase has them and they never represent the fanbase as a whole but are exceptions. They are dead serious about what they do, perceive other teams or different teams fans as "enemies" and feel threatened by other teams successes. Some of them are so deranged that they are even willing to use illegal actions or active sabotage even physical violence to "help their cause". They often perceive themselves as "the chosen ones" the only true loyalists and the ones "deserving" special treatment and think that their own actions are responsible for their idols success (buying TWENTY tickets instead of just one you need, silencing opposing voices etc)

So everything in our world has this kind of people. The difference is of course that no respectable company can afford to be associated with them in any capacity because outside of their special bubble people realize that these individuals are dangerous and taking things too serious. So whenever one of these individuals comes into the spotlight due to an action and connections to company X are made you can be damn sure that the company in question will IMMEDIATELY come out and distance themselves from said individual. The last thing you want to do is to approve these people because next thing that happens is they think they are on a mission and "chosen to do something" so when theres a stabbing or any violent action by these people the connected company will also be guilty and responsible for it.

This is exactly what happens with CiG, SC and the SC fanbase. Chris nurtures the "we versus them" feeling in many of his statements, talks down competition and describes himself and his product in unrealistic and often falsified ways. That in itself isnt different to many other people but Star Citizen has some verified individuals who are taking it too far. They become personal, they invest their LIVES into the game, they stalk and harass people with opposing views and they dont hold back to utilize the worst tools to "defend" their chosen entity (active sabotage, lying, review bombing, false advertising). We have these actions and enough examples on record, everybody can see this behavior as soon as you go to a SC related media site. There is no reason to believe (apart from a few suspected shills) that these people are on CiGs payroll or orchestrated in their actions. But we have ample evidence that CiG does NOT condemn or distance themselves from this behavior even on their own forums. Moderators are biased and invoke forum rules for the smallest infractions (if "bad") or outright ignore rule breaches (when "good"). This laps over into different sites as can be seen on the official Star Citizen WIKI site whos moderators goal is not to provide facts but present Star Citizen in a good light. Inaction and ignorance in this case is the same as approval. Chris Roberts official statement to the Escapist is at best a directed hate letter raging and naming an individual who is suddenly at the center of attention by these deranged and usually unwelcome individuals of SC's fanbase. The consequences of this official latter which was obviously NOT checked or approved by his in-house lawyer can be felt to this day and are possibly the reason why it was withdrawn (because if anything physical happens, this letter will be used as prime evidence against CiG).

So evoking extreme loyalism or feelings of protection against outside factors, nurturing and rewarding personal sacrifice (we know you need to pay your bills but WE need your money more then YOU do, please buy an Idris) in statements and treatment. All ways to keep the show on the road despite the fact that all it "can" show is air and smoke. The toxic part of SC's community has taken a live of its own by now. Too numerous are the echo chambers where yet more fantasies are born keeping the dream alive and where atrocities can be committed against those "haters" freely without CiG being able to do anything about it. The corruption is so wide-spread by now that that it reaches unrelated third-party sites and affects peoples decisions who hold power (website moderators or game reporters for example). The whole thing has a life of its own and even if CiG wanted to terminate it....it couldnt. Instead I see CiG trying to keep up with its fanbase expectations and dreams which is of course impossible in the end. The only way to stop this nonsense as I see it is to come clean, show everything you have, drop your pants so to speak and speak clearly in a way that doesnt allow multiple interpretations (try to be NOT vague for a change Chris). The people living in their dream world regarding Star Citizen need to wake up for their own good before something bad happens either to them or to others.

Of course this step would mean the sudden and dramatic end of Star Citizen and CiG. It would also open up CiG for legal and financial repercussions. Still I hold no sympathy or understanding for Chris Roberts or CiG even if I see the necessity for keeping this whole thing up. If the man had EVEN A TINY SHRED OF INTEGRITY LEFT he would come clean by now and try to save whats left to save. That he does not only continues but also tries to revive this dead horse only proves what kind of man he is.


Usually when you are successful you can be humble and respectful to others especially if you realize that you were benefited in any way (luck, good genes, a "quirk" etc) responsible for your success. Even if you are successful through your own hard work it normally enables you to relate to others who are trying the same thing. Empathy is only one option of many in this case. Others gloat or perceive themselves as natural winners so them being successful is a given (Usain Bolt is a good example for this "sense of self" going too far IMO). If you overcame obstacles on they way to success it also makes you realize how easily it all can slip from you again. Again this can make you humble and thankful or fiercely protective and aggressive against competitors. Of all the examples and behavioral traits I listed only ONE stands out positively tho in the publics eye. We might agree with gloating people and see it as a deserved reward but apart from the schadenfreude beast in us it doesnt enable us to feel noble or just about it.

Dont take me wrong, you absolutely NEED self confidence in order to succeed but that doesnt prevent you from being humble or respectful to others. Thats what I see in David Braben and in a lot of other company CEOs talking about competing games. I m pretty sure he feels threatened by other games as well but that only spurs his motivation to work harder or set himself apart. And he managed to do that with ED. Chris Roberts might have started out with too much self confidence because god knows his life story does anything but confirm him in his achievements so he could be labeled deluded himself (EA kicked me out of the project but hey, I am still the winner in this) but because he doesnt achieve anything on his own he needs to points at others and their weak points constantly in order to elevate his own position. Because that alone is not enough to keep the company running he also continues to add features and makes promises on top of old debts which are non-existent to this day which of course will be his downfall because payday is coming closer and closer :)

Star Citizen is remarkable in its success as a "Luftnummer", smoke and mirror which managed to keep around despite heavy wind and observant eyes. I have no doubt that the group of people refusing to acknowledge anything negative about SC or admit that it has problems by now are a minority/small group but obviously its numerous enough to enable CiG to keep going. These people dont pay to "make it happen" by now....they pay to "prevent a collapse" and they know it. Or at least I hope they do. At least when the collapse does eventually happen these folks can admit they were wrong and see the error of their ways. If there are REALLY people left in SC's community who believe and see the glorious light in everything the PTU provides then I do indeed fear we ll read about SCs collapse in every newspaper of the world because these people might do stupid things once their bubble pops. The "risk" I see from Star Citizen is that other companies will take it as a template to create their own scams targeting a group of gullible people whos RL info is stored on CiG's servers. This company asset is unquestionably worth a LOT to outsiders. Scams themselves are neither unique nor uncommon. In fact every single one of us probably avoids scams multiple times a day by utilizing common sense, suspicion and experience. So while CiG / Star Citizen might be just a scam among others its course will make it a worthy subject for future investigation/observation.

I doubt it can be reproduced easily. Not by Chris Roberts for sure and certainly not with the same promises but the mechanics at work and the subtle effects on its community which made it a successful scam in the end are worth examination IMO.

P.S. Should I spoiler these posts or something? :)
 
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I don't read em Fritz sorry. There's far too much text wall mate :( the shorter ones I do read are good though. You make good points but just a little longer than I have patience for.

Apologies again. It's a me not you thing I suppose :)
 
A little confused about what you mean. FD's behavior is very common in the real world among "professionals" or "adults". Plus even tho they are both supposed to be space sims they are not doing the same or have the same approach. PLUS we are talking about a video game which means you dont have to "make a decision" but you can have both. If the real world is anything its all things being different but able to co-exist. This counts for different species as well as for humans which are all individually unique. Children usually dont know that initially and react threatened or scared whenever they encounter an opposing opinion or a vastly different thing. For some people "handling opposing opinions" is a life-long development which they never quite master.

Why Chris is using other games as an example.....

1. he needs other games to establish a base line because his own game is unable to provide that. The idea of a remake Wing Commander was sufficient for kickstarter but was outdated afterwards. Too many people who havent played the original WC, if you wanted to evoke positive feelings or nostalgia you needed something the todays gamer can relate to. CoG is a prime candidate because even tho its discussed controversial when it comes to the community the game itself obviously was successful beyond believe and captured millions attention. So even tho CiG had NOTHING on its own they could show for FPS purposes all they had to do was take CoD as an example and claim SC is going to be "more deadly" and "realistic". I remind you that even back at the time of this statement Chris had NO examples on how to achieve that. He simply piggybacked another games success. ED which soon outpaced SC in development progress tho both games started at about the same time had to provide the same baseline. But because Chris felt "threatened" by FD's progress he had to add all kinds of things ED doesnt have or make sure to mention that SC's features will be superior (PG for example). The reason for being threatened is that Star Citizen being unable to provide its own living breathing universe yet held a very weak attention span. Fans only had their dreams to hang on to and thats not very nourishing. ED was considered "boring" by many but at least you were able to lose yourself in it for hours at a time or enjoy screenshots readily whenever you like.

In this regard Star Citizen is like a leech sucking off other companies successes without achieving any of its own. Its vision is unique and has not been achieved yet but then not even CiG is able to show a success on that goal. If anything the more details we get about its features and mechanics the more it becomes apparent that Star Citizen will be unable to fulfill its own goals and worse, its creators themselves have no idea how to do it. Every patch for Star Citizen wasnt given voluntarily by CiG. Pretty much every major patch was "forced" out of them after the community started to become restless. And because of that every major patch fell flat on its face upon release. CiG never was "ahead of development" because they were always busy catching up to other companies successes. They managed to establish a "wait and see until OUR game comes out" attitude but because development never sleeps other companies announcing new content or features had a direct impact on Star Citizen which was still struggling to even reach the OLD versions. All of a sudden they found themselves in a competition they are not ready nor qualified for. That they were able to compete for all these years is only possible because there are so many SC backers who were willing to "take words for facts from CiG" while at the same time demanding hard evidence from everybody else. Well reality has caught up with them and as expected, whatever they can provide is subpar and only demonstrates that they were running on fumes for the last few years.

2. a sizable fanbase demands results and a company of CiG's size needs a large fanbase to keep it running (somebody has to pay the 2-3 million dollar tab each month). Pretty much everything these days has a fanbase. The average blogger or streamer who isnt yet quite recognized or has achieved celebrity status STILL has a fanbase of dozens to hundreds of people. Take any sports team regardless how sucky they are when it comes to success will STILL hold a small pool or people hanging on and being loyal. And most of these people dont do it for the money but do something thats fun to them and pay out of their own pocket to do it. And then you have the internet celebrities who are so popular and command so much attention that they are able to make it their way of living and not even exist but prosper by doing it, having large luxury houses, driving sports cars or jetting around the world all funded by other peoples money. Of course this level of attention doesnt come free else everybody would do it. It requires "something" in return that captivates people and there are no boundaries to achieve that. Presenting yourself as the fool or clown, being charismatic, covering interesting topics every day, being unique in a sea of shapeshifters all trying to copy you, having female physical assets (sorry girls but its the truth, the way most female bloggers sell their body for attention sickens me), clickbait or outright cheating others for a one-time success.




Like every big fanbase there will be tribalism among each other (our team versus their team) and its not uncommon for companies or sport teams to make a good show in order to underline the differences always presenting you in the best possible light. In sports its relaxed entertainment good for laughs and helping you to enjoy yourself. Friendly banter and ribbing the opposing team is common. Of course there are always these certain individuals who take it too far or too personal. Every fanbase has them and they never represent the fanbase as a whole but are exceptions. They are dead serious about what they do, perceive other teams or different teams fans as "enemies" and feel threatened by other teams successes. Some of them are so deranged that they are even willing to use illegal actions or active sabotage even physical violence to "help their cause". They often perceive themselves as "the chosen ones" the only true loyalists and the ones "deserving" special treatment and think that their own actions are responsible for their idols success (buying TWENTY tickets instead of just one you need, silencing opposing voices etc)

So everything in our world has this kind of people. The difference is of course that no respectable company can afford to be associated with them in any capacity because outside of their special bubble people realize that these individuals are dangerous and taking things too serious. So whenever one of these individuals comes into the spotlight due to an action and connections to company X are made you can be damn sure that the company in question will IMMEDIATELY come out and distance themselves from said individual. The last thing you want to do is to approve these people because next thing that happens is they think they are on a mission and "chosen to do something" so when theres a stabbing or any violent action by these people the connected company will also be guilty and responsible for it.

This is exactly what happens with CiG, SC and the SC fanbase. Chris nurtures the "we versus them" feeling in many of his statements, talks down competition and describes himself and his product in unrealistic and often falsified ways. That in itself isnt different to many other people but Star Citizen has some verified individuals who are taking it too far. They become personal, they invest their LIVES into the game, they stalk and harass people with opposing views and they dont hold back to utilize the worst tools to "defend" their chosen entity (active sabotage, lying, review bombing, false advertising). We have these actions and enough examples on record, everybody can see this behavior as soon as you go to a SC related media site. There is no reason to believe (apart from a few suspected shills) that these people are on CiGs payroll or orchestrated in their actions. But we have ample evidence that CiG does NOT condemn or distance themselves from this behavior even on their own forums. Moderators are biased and invoke forum rules for the smallest infractions (if "bad") or outright ignore rule breaches (when "good"). This laps over into different sites as can be seen on the official Star Citizen WIKI site whos moderators goal is not to provide facts but present Star Citizen in a good light. Inaction and ignorance in this case is the same as approval. Chris Roberts official statement to the Escapist is at best a directed hate letter raging and naming an individual who is suddenly at the center of attention by these deranged and usually unwelcome individuals of SC's fanbase. The consequences of this official latter which was obviously NOT checked or approved by his in-house lawyer can be felt to this day and are possibly the reason why it was withdrawn (because if anything physical happens, this letter will be used as prime evidence against CiG).

So evoking extreme loyalism or feelings of protection against outside factors, nurturing and rewarding personal sacrifice (we know you need to pay your bills but WE need your money more then YOU do, please buy an Idris) in statements and treatment. All ways to keep the show on the road despite the fact that all it "can" show is air and smoke. The toxic part of SC's community has taken a live of its own by now. Too numerous are the echo chambers where yet more fantasies are born keeping the dream alive and where atrocities can be committed against those "haters" freely without CiG being able to do anything about it. The corruption is so wide-spread by now that that it reaches unrelated third-party sites and affects peoples decisions who hold power (website moderators or game reporters for example). The whole thing has a life of its own and even if CiG wanted to terminate it....it couldnt. Instead I see CiG trying to keep up with its fanbase expectations and dreams which is of course impossible in the end. The only way to stop this nonsense as I see it is to come clean, show everything you have, drop your pants so to speak and speak clearly in a way that doesnt allow multiple interpretations (try to be NOT vague for a change Chris). The people living in their dream world regarding Star Citizen need to wake up for their own good before something bad happens either to them or to others.

Of course this step would mean the sudden and dramatic end of Star Citizen and CiG. It would also open up CiG for legal and financial repercussions. Still I hold no sympathy or understanding for Chris Roberts or CiG even if I see the necessity for keeping this whole thing up. If the man had EVEN A TINY SHRED OF INTEGRITY LEFT he would come clean by now and try to save whats left to save. That he does not only continues but also tries to revive this dead horse only proves what kind of man he is.


Usually when you are successful you can be humble and respectful to others especially if you realize that you were benefited in any way (luck, good genes, a "quirk" etc) responsible for your success. Even if you are successful through your own hard work it normally enables you to relate to others who are trying the same thing. Empathy is only one option of many in this case. Others gloat or perceive themselves as natural winners so them being successful is a given (Usain Bolt is a good example for this "sense of self" going too far IMO). If you overcame obstacles on they way to success it also makes you realize how easily it all can slip from you again. Again this can make you humble and thankful or fiercely protective and aggressive against competitors. Of all the examples and behavioral traits I listed only ONE stands out positively tho in the publics eye. We might agree with gloating people and see it as a deserved reward but apart from the schadenfreude beast in us it doesnt enable us to feel noble or just about it.

Dont take me wrong, you absolutely NEED self confidence in order to succeed but that doesnt prevent you from being humble or respectful to others. Thats what I see in David Braben and in a lot of other company CEOs talking about competing games. I m pretty sure he feels threatened by other games as well but that only spurs his motivation to work harder or set himself apart. And he managed to do that with ED. Chris Roberts might have started out with too much self confidence because god knows his life story does anything but confirm him in his achievements so he could be labeled deluded himself (EA kicked me out of the project but hey, I am still the winner in this) but because he doesnt achieve anything on his own he needs to points at others and their weak points constantly in order to elevate his own position. Because that alone is not enough to keep the company running he also continues to add features and makes promises on top of old debts which are non-existent to this day which of course will be his downfall because payday is coming closer and closer :)

Star Citizen is remarkable in its success as a "Luftnummer", smoke and mirror which managed to keep around despite heavy wind and observant eyes. I have no doubt that the group of people refusing to acknowledge anything negative about SC or admit that it has problems by now are a minority/small group but obviously its numerous enough to enable CiG to keep going. These people dont pay to "make it happen" by now....they pay to "prevent a collapse" and they know it. Or at least I hope they do. At least when the collapse does eventually happen these folks can admit they were wrong and see the error of their ways. If there are REALLY people left in SC's community who believe and see the glorious light in everything the PTU provides then I do indeed fear we ll read about SCs collapse in every newspaper of the world because these people might do stupid things once their bubble pops. The "risk" I see from Star Citizen is that other companies will take it as a template to create their own scams targeting a group of gullible people whos RL info is stored on CiG's servers. This company asset is unquestionably worth a LOT to outsiders. Scams themselves are neither unique nor uncommon. In fact every single one of us probably avoids scams multiple times a day by utilizing common sense, suspicion and experience. So while CiG / Star Citizen might be just a scam among others its course will make it a worthy subject for future investigation/observation.

I doubt it can be reproduced easily. Not by Chris Roberts for sure and certainly not with the same promises but the mechanics at work and the subtle effects on its community which made it a successful scam in the end are worth examination IMO.

P.S. Should I spoiler these posts or something? :)

I like your posts, Fritz...as usual, a very thoughtful read [up]
 
I don't read em Fritz sorry. There's far too much text wall mate :( the shorter ones I do read are good though. You make good points but just a little longer than I have patience for.

Apologies again. It's a me not you thing I suppose :)

I understand tho it makes me sad a little. Its because I am personally unable to bring across a point in 2 or 3 lines as I see others do on this forum. Its a remarkable quality I dont possess. I always try to avoid "rambling on" and try to post quality posts but I realize the sheer volume can be deterrent. Maybe my skill will improve one day for more people to read them :)

/cheers
 
I understand tho it makes me sad a little. Its because I am personally unable to bring across a point in 2 or 3 lines as I see others do on this forum. Its a remarkable quality I dont possess. I always try to avoid "rambling on" and try to post quality posts but I realize the sheer volume can be deterrent. Maybe my skill will improve one day for more people to read them :)

/cheers

tl;dr: SC dumb, CIG dumb, everything and everyone dumb-dumb.

Copy and paste as needed. :D
 
I understand tho it makes me sad a little. Its because I am personally unable to bring across a point in 2 or 3 lines as I see others do on this forum. Its a remarkable quality I dont possess. I always try to avoid "rambling on" and try to post quality posts but I realize the sheer volume can be deterrent. Maybe my skill will improve one day for more people to read them :)

/cheers

Don't be discouraged, Fritz...I had a similar issue with my occasional thought provoking walls of text on our Ex Forces forum... dubbed by others as 'Tales from the Mole locker'. Somehow, the Mole Locker stuff has since become so popular, I'm now struggling to keep producing them with enough regularity and readable content to stop folks asking if I'm dead when they don't appear every month.

I like 'wordsmiths', who are becoming all too few in this era of Facebook and social media like and share buttons...and you Fritz, are certainly in that 'wordsmith' category [yesnod]
 
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Don't be discouraged, Fritz...I had a similar issue with my occasional thought provoking walls of text on our Ex Forces forum... dubbed by others as 'Tales from the Mole locker'. Somehow, the Mole Locker stuff has since become so popular, I'm now struggling to keep producing them with enough regularity and readable content to stop folks asking if I'm dead when they don't appear every month.

I like 'wordsmiths', who are becoming all too few in this era of Facebook and social media like and share buttons...and you Fritz, are certainly in that 'wordsmith' category [yesnod]

I enjoy the long walls of txt I Try to keep it short and only deliver snappy punch lines :D
 
I've got refund recently, but I also kept basic package as I have both games included and many other nice pledge goal rewards.

Can't say I am not bit excited to test 3.0 when it finally comes out, but for now I am unable to find any kind of insider info from people playing Evocati.
If someone heard something would be nice to share with us here.
 
I hope the aliens from the Hemorrh system don't show up. ;)

Edit: on topic. Partial transcript by SomethingJones on the SA forum.

Star Citizen: Around the Verse - Cockpits: Enhancing the Experience
Oct 12, 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGNoDLNkILM#t=370s
@ 04:50

Wilmslow QA Dev
Once we've figured out the last 10001 disconnect issue, we've got a build here from the UK, just deployed from... that was kicked off earlier this afternoon that should... the fixes for the disconnect seem like they've 'taken', we could get another code build done or a full build if we absolutely needed to, go through the process of putting that up to the Evocati so that we can get them... those fixes rolled out to them today, ah.. which is good... a couple of...

Chris Roberts
Eh, ahhh I wanted... to mention it at project leadership meeting but it's important that the... QUALITATIVE feedback, uh... is filtered through, ah... TARD... and we'll make priority calls on it 'cos... there's some STUFF like you know, the 10001 error codes, yes with them we're definitely... we're definitely fixing, but then you know there's some SUBJECTIVE feedback of like, "I don't like THIS or I do like THIS" or whatever, now some of those issues they're calling out we already know about we're already working at addressing...

I always get a bit WORRIED because first of all we're getting ah... kind of SUBJECTIVE feedback that's sort of ANECDOTAL and so you know someone can have a strong OPINION but you know like, that could be THEIR opinion and maybe different to someone ELSE'S opinion as to whether it's a bug or not... so it has to go through the FILTER of us on the very HIGH LEVEL of the kind of DESIGN SIDE to make sure that you know, it's something that we wanna AGREE because a lot of the times people can't see the BIG PICTURE when they're making, ah... you know... FEEDBACK 'cos they don't know where the, you know, they're like, "WELL THIS IS MISSING! I NEED THIS!" and we're like 'yeah, no we know it's missing', it's kind of like on our TASK LIST, we're working on it right now, and we understand that... you know... it hurts your ability to dogfight if you can't see the status of your TARGET... or the status of your SHIP

Um, so... so I just wanna make sure we do that 'cos we're all worried that we automate it, some of these like subjective feedback get re-upped to JIRA, they get put in somebody's BUCKET, maybe they get ASSIGNED and you know... we'll spend some time working on stuff that needs to have... kind of... ahh... DIRECTION and... and... and... and... ORDER and PRIORITY called out.

SOMETIMES what people want to get FIXED, the solution is SOMEWHERE ELSE to fix the issue they're complaining about... so on the subjective stuff I kinda wanna make sure that, um... we're going through a FILTER on that.

Problem is that SUBJECTIVE feedback is in its way just as important as objective feedback.

As a games designer, if something isn't fun, if it's irritating or offputting, Chris needs to know that and understand why, and then determine if the issue is worth fixing. And you also have to consider if that problem is indicative of something, if they are voicing something every body else agrees with but aren't talking about, if they just have a lower tolerance so the stuff they hate is stuff everybody will hate in six months.

Although - to be honest, what is written here appears a bit rambling.
 
I've got refund recently, but I also kept basic package as I have both games included and many other nice pledge goal rewards.

Can't say I am not bit excited to test 3.0 when it finally comes out, but for now I am unable to find any kind of insider info from people playing Evocati.
If someone heard something would be nice to share with us here.

Depend on who you ask...some people are calling it a disaster, the leaks that I managed to catch weren't too encouraging, but the general consensus seems to be that it is both incredibly buggy and flawed, but fun, at least for a while.
 
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