Frontier- You Have My Support
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NecoMachina
N
Really? Because what I found sickening is how Frontier handled the situation. Some people were interested in the game, but refused to buy in until they were assured that there would be an offline mode. Did Frontier try to do an offline mode? I'm 100% confident they did. I attribute no malice at all to them on this.
But when it was announced that there wouldn't be offline after all, some people who were ONLY interested if offline was a thing, wanted a refund. Frontier took WAAAAAAY longer than a reasonable timeframe to get back to them. We're talking weeks and weeks. And then when these people did hear back from Frontier, they were offered a 70% refund (I believe? I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was not a full 100% refund). And IIRC the reasoning that a FULL refund was not offered was because they were "playing" and testing the game for some time during the pre-release alphas and betas?
That was a pretty scummy move by Frontier. That was not how an honorable, upstanding company should have handled that situation. Were some of the customers angry? Absolutely. Was there a level of vitriol? Yes, absolutely. That does not excuse Frontier's handling of the situation. If you change the product before launch, and you take out a key feature that was the ONLY reason these people were interested in the game (and they were VERY clear about that), then when they ask for a refund, a full refund should be given, no questions asked. And it shouldn't have taken over a month for those people to even have heard back from support.
Quite frankly, Frontier was the one that acted in a disgusting manner in that situation.
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I barely spend any time on the forums now and less in the game than I used to due to the incessantly unpleasant and negative tone of a large portion of the community.
It's nice to read an OP like this occasionally, even if it's now a bit messed up with the usual acid drops. Heck there have been times I've been pretty disappointed in what's happened but good lord the way people go about it :/
Oh well back off to lurk elsewhere
It's nice to read an OP like this occasionally, even if it's now a bit messed up with the usual acid drops. Heck there have been times I've been pretty disappointed in what's happened but good lord the way people go about it :/
Oh well back off to lurk elsewhere
I love these threads and I'll gladly chime in to offer FD my support as well.
Grew up playing Wing Commander my loyalties *should* with Chris Roberts and Star Citizen but I really like Elite, the kind of game it is, and what is coming for it in the future.
Grew up playing Wing Commander my loyalties *should* with Chris Roberts and Star Citizen but I really like Elite, the kind of game it is, and what is coming for it in the future.
...I wonder if it's possible to eventually link our Forum account to our Frontier account .. makes sense in my view.
BrettC, care to weigh in?
100% agree - and on the Planet Coaster forum there is a watermark showing whether the poster owns the game or not - so it is do'able.
I remember Brett C stating that he might do something similar for the ED forums quite some time ago, but nothing has come of that, sadly
Oh man I remember that thread... Went on for like 20 pages and OP never replied to any of it after attempting a smackdown rant on Obsidian Ant of all people for not being a true believer of Elite Dangerous. Just goes to show that Horseshoe Theory applies to more than just politics. There's a spectrum haters and salt miners but also players who post legitimate complaints, just as on the other side there are white knights and Pollyannas who can see the devs do no wrong down to fans who make legitimate complaints... But the ones who hold extreme views are closer to each other than the side they identify with. Some people think that the devs can do nothing right, the other side thinks they can do no wrong. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.
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NecoMachina
N
Me too actually. There's alot of excuses of why games are always gonna be riddled with bugs, or why a smaller teams of devs can't produce quantity and/or quality, or why games have to cost so much, or why copy-protection systems, which are essentially mal-ware in many cases, MUST be used, or why companies can't have more customer-friendly policies.
Every time I just think - CD Projekt Red is doing it. Small, self-published company. No DRM. Game Prices about half what you see others charge, for twice the content. And the quality of the graphics, audio, writing, gameplay systems, etc are PHENOMINAL. How does the company stay in business? Because they treat customers with respect. They don't feed them over-hyped nonsense. They don't promise what they can't deliver. Other companies could learn a thing or two...
I agree. This game isn't like a 10/10 but I have fun playing it and FDev seems like they try to treat people right when they have a grievance, give people rebuys back, and continuously updates the game. Compared to a big company like EA, a company which is legendary for how bad their customer service is, I'd much rather play a Frontier game and deal with FDev. This game wasn't a finished product when it came out and it wasn't as good as it is now, but I still enjoyed myself then, and I still like the game now.
If anything I hope FDev doesn't listen to all the grinders out there whining every time they shut down an exploit that they can make billions of credits off of. "OH MY GOD THEY SHUT DOWN QUINCE I CAN'T MAKE 50 MILLION TO SCAN ONE DATA POINT ANYMORE" "THEY NERFED PASSENGER MISSIONS I CAN'T MAKE 50 MILLION TO CARRY ONE PASSENGER TO RHEA ANYMORE". I guess to those people if you can't make silly money off of something grinding it isn't worth playing the game anyways. Oh and also these people are the ones that want interdictions taken out because they want to grind silly money with no risk.
If anything I hope FDev doesn't listen to all the grinders out there whining every time they shut down an exploit that they can make billions of credits off of. "OH MY GOD THEY SHUT DOWN QUINCE I CAN'T MAKE 50 MILLION TO SCAN ONE DATA POINT ANYMORE" "THEY NERFED PASSENGER MISSIONS I CAN'T MAKE 50 MILLION TO CARRY ONE PASSENGER TO RHEA ANYMORE". I guess to those people if you can't make silly money off of something grinding it isn't worth playing the game anyways. Oh and also these people are the ones that want interdictions taken out because they want to grind silly money with no risk.
i would have sworn from your posts that you were a teenager.
other than that i sincerely can't extract any meaningful message from your rambling. you're deeply hurt because a company has been mistreated or something. well, life's a biatch. what can i say, take it easy, bro, hope you feel better. rest assured, this is not the end of the world. maybe if you try to get out a bit more?
Dude, he writes books, can you believe that?!
CD Project Red is a phenomenal game company. Is there any other game dev thats really even playing in the same league?
Hmm, maybe Larian?
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Indeed that's the message I've been wanting to write for while, you beat me to it though
Some people just want elite to be THEIR game, rather than the one that FD wants.
They don't even remember why they were whining a year ago
Actually for quite a few of us we'd just like the game DB outlined in the KS, that would be a start and something which WE are clear about even if FDev and others are not.
Than add a good spoonful of what was discussed in the DDF, that good people paid GOOD MONEY to be a part of in the belief it was going to be taken seriously, and yet afaik almost none of it is in the game.
After that... co crazy, whatever you want, but either give us what you said, or man up and say "I don't think we can do X,Y,Z in any reasonable timeframe" and players can at least get a reality check. It's the indicisive uncertainty of so many things just left in the SOON (tm) box that annoys.
Right now FDev are either misleading players or themselves on a number of hotly debated issues, and the longer that those things remain in the dark, the more people lose faith in general. Game development is like fishing, once hooked you have to keep them hooked, you might be able to play them on the line for a short time, but eventually they will work themselves off; and once off the hook that fish won't be fooled so easily twice.
I admire Shad's and others willingness to stand up and be counted as one of the faithful - but I have to say overly effusive threads on the topic of "I'm loving ED" have just the whiff of desperation about them like the overachieving mom yelling "go go I beleive in you!!" to the scrawny, awkward kid on the football pitch when he's got 2 left feet, no co-ordination and is thinking about dinosaurs.
I honestly wouldn't be here - prodding FDev to keep to their word - if I thought I was wasting my time . Why on earth would I subject myself to some of the hate and PM's I've had otherwise? RL is hard enough without painting a target on my back unless I thought it was worth it.
Would it be easier to walk? Of course it would, I'd be less stressed and probably sleep better some nights but there's a problem.
I loved the Elite game and FE2 and FFE...
and because I'm greedy I want the game DB told me about.
We are many who are labeled fan boys, I take that in this forum as a label of honor. God knows I give critique when I feel there is a need to.
However you're right this is getting ridiculous and is not helping.
The decision to give ED a year with free stuff is a good decision and as a LEP and frequent store shopper, I conquer with that decision.
BTW MoM I saw some of your minions having a coffee break the other day on the planets? They just sit there in the middle of nowhere powered down doing nothing? Ain't they supposed to be on patrol or something?
Rafe Zetter
Banned
***Mod hat of
I've said this a few times over the years but here's my thoughts on Frontier Developments.
Frontier primarily is run by people who have a true passion for the games they make, it starts from the top with david Braben and filters all the way through the company.
I've seen how they work and how passionate they are, it's been mentioned you're more likley to see David working with the Dev team than in his office and that's a pretty accurate description.
I've been lucky to have met a lot of the people who work at Frontier not only in a professional settings but in personal settings also and I can honestly say I've never met one of them who isn't 100% enthusiastic about the company, the games and the community that has grown around them.
In my capacity as one of the moderatiion team I've seen a lot of what's happened here on the forum and yes on a few occasions it's turned quite tough as in the Offline situation where Frontier initially didn't mention offline but with the demand that grew decided to include it in the kickstarter only to find later on it wasn't feasible, Now I don't believe for one second the timing of the announcement that offline wouldn't be achievable was anything but them trying up till the last minute to give what hey promised and the frankly appalling way some reacted when the announcement was made sickened me. I can understand the frustration but the way some staff were subject to the vitriol and aggression would not be tolerated in any other business type, the fact that they took it all on the chin, issued refunds to those who asked for them says a lot about the good intentions as a company they have to their customer base.
At no point do I beleve they set out to dupe anybody.
Yeah I'm a fan of the games they make and I know I'm in a lucky position to have the levels of contact I've had over the years all the way back to when the forum started and I was searching to a sequal to First Encounters; at that time there were only a few posters who regularly posted and a lot of us are still here (they know who they are). But in all honesty I really would have not stuck around if I didn't think that they were a great bunch who are really trying hard to make the best games they possibly can.
On the flip side to above, the way the forum and community has grown firstly around ED and then other games has been incredible to watch, seeing groups like the Hutton mug lunatics, the Lave Radio nutters, the Fuel Rats and the Pixel Bandits to name just a few has been a joy to be a small part of, for those who attend the various offical and unofficial meets you can see what is for all intense purposes a huge family. Another example; Mike Brookes ran a small Drabble competition with the Writers in their forum and as part of my Mod duties I saw this and thought it would be fun if the main forum did the same, I asked and Mike said yes go for it and so I started a thread which caught the attention of some forum members and it grew and grew and took on a life of it's own with the likes of Psykokow, Smoof, Gal Midd, Alien etc etc etc... so I stepped back and let them run with it. Psykokow has been such a enormous source of creativeness and fun since he 1st joined, and he's not alone in being such a incredible influence in the community which has so many great contributers it would take all night to list them but who I consider good friends.. except MikeSnoz as he supports Ipswich (love ya really Alvi.. I mean Mike.
I've seen great generosity by many people who have given up not only their time but their money, my daughter ran the pretty muddy race this year and some of the community got wind of it and she ended up raising £600 which we were so very very greatful for, thanks again
At the recent FX17 event most of the time was spent chatting and laughing with great people whether it Staff or Community, and everyone was made to feel very welcome by everybody.
To summarise though, yes frontier don't always get it right, but hen who does? and I know they always listen to the community and on more than one occasion have performed a u-turn on a decision, that to me speaks volumes on what kind of a company they really are when they listen and understand the passion many of us have for a little game made by two university students in the 1980s.
It's a community I'm very proud to be a small part of.
I really don't know how to respond to this - I have one, but if I do it'll just look like sour grapes despite legitimate counters to what you said so I'll just say the 2 most pertinent:
1) FDev issuing refunds after offlinegate was a legal matter not a voluntary one, they can't claim or be given ANY "did the right thing" credit for doing something that was part of their legal obligations pursuant to doing business in the UK. No EULA issued by a UK trading company will stand up against any breach of UK law. They had no choice but to "take it on the chin"; it was that or a court issued writ.
Everything else is just "spin". T.J, you might be personally sickened by how some people reacted at the time, but remember more than a few of the people who requested refunds were the "big ticket" backers spending £500 or even THOUSANDS OF POUNDS; when that kind of money is involved all bets are off.
2) It's good that the community helped with your daughters charity run, but the people who attend the booths or other ED related events are those players particularly empassioned about the game so as to pay MORE MONEY to take part in those events. I have my doubts on how many of the "borderline - happy with X / not happy with Y" players would attend such things, ergo your experiences of the community members you've met are disproportionately biased.
If FDev were to do some sort of "open debate", a teamspeak version of a "town hall meet" or something, I doubt the result would be the same.
FDev might not have set out to dupe anyone, but the silence sure feels like it sometimes, and the longer it continues - even after YEARS NOW of requests to STOP WITH THE RADIO SILENCE - the more it feels like being duped.
The best way I can describe it is this - I have a younger brother who lives in USA, he moved there 4 years ago after meeting and marrying into a good family (VERY GOOD, "house in the Hamptons" good.) after 1 year he stopped contact, he was never that brilliant anyway but it just stopped. He still posts on facebook picures of his new son (no invites to his UK family for the christening) - but all direct contact has gone unaswered, thus essentially been severed, by him. The UK family have not even met his son despite it being my parents first grandchild.
Four months ago my father had a stroke, my brother didn't fly over from the USA - yes he can afford it, - no phone call, not even a card. nothing.
My father decided enough was enough and altered his will to cut him out, and Ben might find any future relationship with his UK family and three other brothers degraded beyond repair. Ben might love his father, but all evidence says otherwise.
FDev might appreciate the players support, even from the people whom go that extra step to show it, but most of the time there seems little reciprocation for that support.
If thier ability to swallow criticism and move forward is as robust as you make out then giving us the information we so desperatly seek - and accepting any more criticism that might come after, should be no problem for them, should it?
Communication is their single biggest failing by far, and their obvious lack of care to address it speaks volumes, despite your post.
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I don't disagree with you, but some of the posts are just rambling nonsense.
Those are the ones I'm addressing.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Sure I can ramble - I'm wordy, I feel it helps to clarify a position rather than be left open to a personal baised interpretion. Sure I could prolly edit them down, but I'd still have to write the whole thing first and I'm not getting paid here
TL: DR I like to write words.
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