Frontier- You Have My Support

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It is the use of language that puts so many posts in discredit. And why do some folks think critic and suggestions to the Devs must sound harsh? Is this working in RL? I don’t think so.
I welcome Commanders who point out shortcomings and bugs of ED, but too many critics are just childish rants garnished with swear words.
 
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It is the use of language that puts so many posts in discredit. And why do some folks think critic and suggestions to the Devs must sound harsh? Is this working in RL? I don’t think so.
I welcome Commanders who point out shortcomings and bugs of ED, but too many critics are just childish rants garnished with swear words.

This: also not everything YOU ( the critic not you specifically ) don't like is bad game design, purely obnoxious or just plain boring -other ppl feel different about the same things.
 
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I'm a huge Elite fan. I played the other three games to death and then some in the 80s and 90s.

So when Frontier launched their Kickstarter to do Elite IV I backed big... bigger than was really sensible at the time (>£1000) because I was desperate to see the game made.

I contributed to the DDF, spent hours on here formulating my thoughts and thinking about the specifications FD were presenting and using all my dev experience (30 years) to find holes in what they were putting forward. It was an enjoyable and exciting time.

Offlinegate sickened me. Truly. Both figuratively and literally. I won't go into details, but it wasn't good. Frontier deserve zero credit for how they handled that. Similarly, the way they discarded and ignored the DDF's work was (and is) disgraceful. Since then, I had a love hate relationship with this game, and by extension, Frontier themselves. I threw the game away in disgust, and didn't touch it for about a year.

Then, last year, when I was off work sick, I decided to load it up... just to see. Ended up pumping about 500 hours into it. I realised then that what E: D was, was a nice version of FFE, with modern graphics. And at the end of the day, that was all I really wanted when I backed the game on Kickstarter. I think that goes for a lot of backers tbh.

I've now put over 1000 hours in (which means I got my money's worth by my criteria of £1=1 hour gameplay) and taking a break again because there isn't much left for me to do in the game (that I want to do), and I don't want to reset my save and do it all again. So I'm eagerly awaiting Beyond.

TL;DR Frontier have my support, but it is guarded (always will be after Offlinegate) and in terms of making the game enjoyable for older players, utterly dependant on what comes next in Beyond. There are things in the game I absolutely adore, but just as many things that annoy me or even make me angry. I will always call them out when I see them.
 
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I'm a huge Elite fan. I played the other three games to death and then some in the 80s and 90s.

So when Frontier launched their Kickstarter to do Elite IV I backed big... bigger than was really sensible at the time (>£1000) because I was desperate to see the game made.

I contributed to the DDF, spent hours on here formulating my thoughts and thinking about the specifications FD were presenting and using all my dev experience (30 years) to find holes in what they were putting forward. It was an enjoyable and exciting time.

Offlinegate sickened me. Truly. Both figuratively and literally. I won't go into details, but it wasn't good. Frontier deserve zero credit for how they handled that. Since then, I had a love hate relationship with this game, and by extension, Frontier themselves. I threw the game away in disgust, and didn't touch it for about a year.

Then, last year, when I was off work sick, I decided to load it up... just to see. Ended up pumping about 500 hours into it. I realised then that what E: D was, was a nice version of FFE, with modern graphics. And at the end of the day, that was all I really wanted when I backed the game on Kickstarter. I think that goes for a lot of backers tbh.

I've now put over 1000 hours in (which means I got my money's worth by my criteria of £1=1 hour gameplay) and taking a break again because there isn't much left for me to do in the game (that I want to do), and I don't want to reset my save and do it all again. So I'm eagerly awaiting Beyond.

TL;DR Frontier have my support, but it is guarded (always will be after Offlinegate) and in terms of making the game enjoyable for older players, utterly dependant on what comes next in Beyond. There are things in the game I absolutely adore, but just as many things that annoy me or even make me angry. I will always call them out when I see them.

Nothing wrong in how you feel, I guess a lot of us are in a hate love relationship with ED and even Frontier themselves. However if someone just write I'm leaving or rambling off the rails without any reasoning behind it, it will be just that, old men shaking fist at clouds. (Btw I'm a old dude myself).
 
Finally read through the whole of this thread after searching it for "axe" quotes...

Now I don't believe for one second the timing of the announcement that offline wouldn't be achievable was anything but them trying up till the last minute to give what hey promised and the frankly appalling way some reacted when the announcement was made sickened me.
See, here's the thing. I don't have a personal or professional relationship with any of these people beyond being a customer and watching their streams, but I have no reason to doubt what you say about their loyalty and integrity. And I agree with almost all of the points you raised. Except this one.

The reveal that Offline had been cancelled wasn't an announcement, it was a virtual burial. Weasel-worded away in the last sentence of the eleventh paragraph of a section about technical achievements in a newsletter only a fraction of players actually read. It was a despicable and cynical attempt to hide bad news. As for the aftermath and refunds debacle, NecoMachina already covered it.

I don't enjoy adding more negativity into what should be a positive thread, but I can't sit by while someone tries to defend FD for what they did in November '14. They knew exactly what they were doing, the community called them on it, and the backlash they got was exactly what they deserved. I just hope they remember this if they have to issue any similar "announcements" in future.
 
People who criticize Frontier need to go buy games from other companies to see just how well they have it here....

People have called me a fanboi in the past, because of my optimistic posts....

Haters, trolls and the eternally negative are entitled to their opinion. That's mine.

You say people are entitled to their opinion, but anyone that disagrees with your opinion is branded a troll, hater, or eternally negative.

Nice way to get people to agree with you! I don't, by the way. I guess that makes me a hater, or a troll? Because I disagree with your opinion and I have my own?

Opinion threads with optimism are fine. Condescending, arrogant opinion threads aren't. Or maybe you don't care what people think.
 
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Absolutely love the game, but it frustrates the #$%$#@@# out of me when they do stupid things that get a lot of their player base off side with them.

If they do something I like I'll share my happiness with them. As a paying customer and Elite Dangerous fan, I reserve my right to voice my displeasure when they do something dumb that potentially sabotages the game I love. (hint, Frontier... dial back the nerf hammer a bit).

If you see no fault with what they do then kudos to you.
 
As a paying customer and Elite Dangerous fan, I reserve my right to voice my displeasure when they do something dumb that potentially sabotages the game I love. (hint, Frontier... dial back the nerf hammer a bit).

As long as you realize, that there are quite a lot of ppl who want them to use the nerf hammer more often ( cut down on these insane mission payouts pls.) and voice this in your critique ( Less mission income takes away from the game for me NOT is a really dumb game design desicion and kills the game for everyone bc only unlimted funds is fun .. ) OP is with you.
 
We all have different opinions and expectations, like the game or not, there is no point arguing amongst ourselves.
 
Frontier and Elite in particular will always have my support.
played it for a very long time as a Kid on my C64 back in the days and can't stop playing Elite Dangerous now
that I'm old.
 
The reveal that Offline had been cancelled wasn't an announcement, it was a virtual burial. Weasel-worded away in the last sentence of the eleventh paragraph of a section about technical achievements in a newsletter only a fraction of players actually read. It was a despicable and cynical attempt to hide bad news. As for the aftermath and refunds debacle, NecoMachina already covered it.

I don't enjoy adding more negativity into what should be a positive thread, but I can't sit by while someone tries to defend FD for what they did in November '14. They knew exactly what they were doing, the community called them on it, and the backlash they got was exactly what they deserved. I just hope they remember this if they have to issue any similar "announcements" in future.

Exactly this.

I'd like to believe that they have learned from the (catalogue of) mistakes they made in November 2014, and I saw just enough at FX17 to rekindle a small amount of HOPE about E: D and its future direction. In terms of communicating both good and bad news to the community, I think Ed Lewis deserves an enormous amount of credit for his integrity and the way he has helped re-knit the community that was basically shattered back then.

We move forward.
 
We all have different opinions and expectations, like the game or not, there is no point arguing amongst ourselves.

I don't think thats true. Arguing amongst ourselves helps us to value other points then our own. It helps if these points are brought forwards in a reasonable way instead of a profanity laden word salad.
 
***Mod hat of

I've said this a few times over the years but here's my thoughts on Frontier Developments.

Frontier primarily is run by people who have a true passion for the games they make, it starts from the top with david Braben and filters all the way through the company.

I've seen how they work and how passionate they are, it's been mentioned you're more likley to see David working with the Dev team than in his office and that's a pretty accurate description.

I've been lucky to have met a lot of the people who work at Frontier not only in a professional settings but in personal settings also and I can honestly say I've never met one of them who isn't 100% enthusiastic about the company, the games and the community that has grown around them.

In my capacity as one of the moderatiion team I've seen a lot of what's happened here on the forum and yes on a few occasions it's turned quite tough as in the Offline situation where Frontier initially didn't mention offline but with the demand that grew decided to include it in the kickstarter only to find later on it wasn't feasible, Now I don't believe for one second the timing of the announcement that offline wouldn't be achievable was anything but them trying up till the last minute to give what hey promised and the frankly appalling way some reacted when the announcement was made sickened me. I can understand the frustration but the way some staff were subject to the vitriol and aggression would not be tolerated in any other business type, the fact that they took it all on the chin, issued refunds to those who asked for them says a lot about the good intentions as a company they have to their customer base.

At no point do I beleve they set out to dupe anybody.

Yeah I'm a fan of the games they make and I know I'm in a lucky position to have the levels of contact I've had over the years all the way back to when the forum started and I was searching to a sequal to First Encounters; at that time there were only a few posters who regularly posted and a lot of us are still here (they know who they are). But in all honesty I really would have not stuck around if I didn't think that they were a great bunch who are really trying hard to make the best games they possibly can.

On the flip side to above, the way the forum and community has grown firstly around ED and then other games has been incredible to watch, seeing groups like the Hutton mug lunatics, the Lave Radio nutters, the Fuel Rats and the Pixel Bandits to name just a few has been a joy to be a small part of, for those who attend the various offical and unofficial meets you can see what is for all intense purposes a huge family. Another example; Mike Brookes ran a small Drabble competition with the Writers in their forum and as part of my Mod duties I saw this and thought it would be fun if the main forum did the same, I asked and Mike said yes go for it and so I started a thread which caught the attention of some forum members and it grew and grew and took on a life of it's own with the likes of Psykokow, Smoof, Gal Midd, Alien etc etc etc... so I stepped back and let them run with it. Psykokow has been such a enormous source of creativeness and fun since he 1st joined, and he's not alone in being such a incredible influence in the community which has so many great contributers it would take all night to list them but who I consider good friends.. except MikeSnoz as he supports Ipswich (love ya really Alvi.. I mean Mike. :) )

I've seen great generosity by many people who have given up not only their time but their money, my daughter ran the pretty muddy race this year and some of the community got wind of it and she ended up raising £600 which we were so very very greatful for, thanks again :)

At the recent FX17 event most of the time was spent chatting and laughing with great people whether it Staff or Community, and everyone was made to feel very welcome by everybody.

To summarise though, yes frontier don't always get it right, but hen who does? and I know they always listen to the community and on more than one occasion have performed a u-turn on a decision, that to me speaks volumes on what kind of a company they really are when they listen and understand the passion many of us have for a little game made by two university students in the 1980s.

It's a community I'm very proud to be a small part of.

I don't think anyone expects perfection and nor are FD the antichrist but your appraisal of the past strikes me as looking through rose tinted glasses. The offline game thing didn't actually impact on me because I wanted a multiplayer Elite game however I thought the handling of it was worse than actually dropping that part of the KS.

Rather than make an announcement and an apology and come clean the news was slyly eluded to in a newsletter, if memory serves, and it was only after a lot of complaining that people got refunds which FD were reluctant to offer. I'm not saying folks issuing death threats is acceptable but the genuine anger was understandable and really not helped by Frontiers attempt to brush it under the carpet.

Some time back David kept offering his heart felt thanks to KS backers and yet in a number of ways his actions betray his words. Of course its not like they did a runner with the crowd funding money, they have delivered a game, but I can't quite understand why when they've not been able or wanted to deliver something folks paid for that they haven't put their cards on the table, explain why, and offer something else in return. A small gesture of good will.. Instead, they go silent and at times I've found the attitude of some of the key stake holders to be disgusting.

For example, the founders decal.. Where was it? when asked Brookes made some flippant excuse and it was only under pressure of complaints they delivered it. And the NLGPs? Where are those? Thats right they mysteriously vanished and a wall of silence appears when the subject is raised. Founders were meant to get special missions.. Where are those?

Sorry bud but there is a pattern of behavior here and these issues could have easily been resolved long ago.. Off the top of my head how about, 'Sorry guys for x reason we cant/don't want to delivere this as promised but heres y or z as a gesture of good will. If you find that unacceptable then we'll refund a portion of what wasnt delivered'.. Instead, they've stuck up the proverbial two fingers.

David is on record as having said he feels bad about the DDF NGLPs, I remember watching it in a video, but you know words are cheap. This sort of behavior isn't the actions of people who appreciate the support they were given. If I had done a KS, I would have bent over backwards to honour what I had said I would deliver to my backers, and if I couldnt I would have come clean, and looked after folks. I certainly wouldn't have stonewalled them.

And whilst a bit of a difficult topic to raise given the rules here the way this forum has been managed is also a rather large source of grievance, the bias being staggering at times.

It would be nice to have some closure but it seems the powers that be aren't ever going to do the right thing. And when it comes to supporting Frontier, I already did when I backed the KS, and look how they behaved.

So we all have a point of view but I do wonder if the tables were turned if you'd still have a glowing view. Its all in the past of course but as I've said before it casts a rather dark shadow over my enthusiasm for ED. Looking back I wish I had just bought the game after it was released and I could have saved myself the drama.

Still, we live and learn. I'm much wiser for the experience.
 
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Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Exactly this.

I'd like to believe that they have learned from the (catalogue of) mistakes they made in November 2014, and I saw just enough at FX17 to rekindle a small amount of HOPE about E: D and its future direction. In terms of communicating both good and bad news to the community, I think Ed Lewis deserves an enormous amount of credit for his integrity and the way he has helped re-knit the community that was basically shattered back then.

We move forward.

Very well said indeed.
 
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