For not the first time, you have misunderstood what this game is. Yamiks as well apparently, a sad day. Materials collection needs addressing. Everything else is fine.
For not the first time, you have misunderstood what this game is. Yamiks as well apparently, a sad day. Materials collection needs addressing. Everything else is fine.
NecoMachina
N
Yes, but at the same time the game has one of the steepest learning curves. (Not saying that's a bad thing)
IMO they need to decide what Elite is. Is it an approachable game that anyone can learn and get into? Then the learning curve may be too high, as every one of my "gamer friends" has been turned off by the learning curve. Or is it a complex game that caters to players who don't mind putting in a lot of time to learn the game and then alot more time to master it? I which case, we could lower the grind and add in some skill-gating on the ships, ranks, etc.
Right now, I feel like Elite is trying to cater to both casual and hardcore gamers, and not doing particularly well at either.
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I've said before, E.D. is not a game, it's not a sim, it's not a sandbox. It's an experience.
The problem, for me at least, that experience is getting very very repetitive and way too much based on random dice rolls.
NecoMachina
N
If you have a Corvette on the PS4, you ARE grinding. On the one hand you say you're not grinding. On they other hand, IN THE SAME POST you're saying you're focused on getting 3 ranks a day. You're contradicting yourself. Kinda hard to take your statements seriously.
NecoMachina
N
I hate this excuse. No one is forcing you to go to work every day to make money to feed yourself either. Doesn't change the fact that most people would like to eat every day. Do you tell someone who hates their job that "no one is forcing you to work"?
NecoMachina
N
You're trying to apply logic to Elite. Please stop before you melt the brains of some of the "game designers" in the FDEV offices. [yesnod]
Well, maybe try one for yourself and you will understand why ppl want it so much? And you are very wrong with "not being best for anything" its one of the best multi purposes vessels in game. If you like to tell people how to play the game you should at least try all the ships dont you think? [haha]
That's your opinion and that is fine. For me ED is exactly good for that, because it does not force aims, goals, whatever. I just play it and I progress naturally.
I understand you want everything to be forced upon you in games, but this isn't that kind of game, and obviously never will be for you.
Grinding for money, well if you really need an expensive ship fast, then thats what you'll do. But it's your decision. Anything in the game can be done with almost any ship.
Grinding for Engineers materials is up to you, if you really need those upgrades. You can just fly with stock modules too and perform well.
Grinding for rank is also up to you. Do you really want that corvette or cutter? then go for it. It's your choise.
In the end, reason for why you grind in Elite is found in the mirror.
Grinding for Engineers materials is up to you, if you really need those upgrades. You can just fly with stock modules too and perform well.
Grinding for rank is also up to you. Do you really want that corvette or cutter? then go for it. It's your choise.
In the end, reason for why you grind in Elite is found in the mirror.
I often thought access should come through remaining loyal to the Fed/Empire for a long time. Work for them, and slowly, over time, gain access. Not stupidly grind, just work for them. Perhaps a year of play, running missions, and then, you get access.
I wonder how people would feel if instead of having to grind for ranks for the Cutter or Corvette, instead you had to pledge to the Federation or Empire. To make it have some downsides, you would become automatically hostile in the opposing systems. KOS.
After 1 year (real time) of pledge, you got access to that ship.
There you go, grind removed
I wonder how people would feel if instead of having to grind for ranks for the Cutter or Corvette, instead you had to pledge to the Federation or Empire. To make it have some downsides, you would become automatically hostile in the opposing systems. KOS.
After 1 year (real time) of pledge, you got access to that ship.
There you go, grind removed
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After 1 year (real time) of pledge, you got access to that ship.
There you go, grind removed
Are you crazy I want my Cutter after 3 days of playtime ;D
I've tried the Anaconda a time or two in various Betas. Like all big ships, its Supercruise handling sucks. When I fly for fun and profit, I prefer better Supercruise handling. When I fly just for fun, I prefer excellent Supercruise handling. I very rarely fly just for profit, so I see no point in rushing to acquire an Anaconda if there isn't a job I need it for. It's like going out and buying an expensive pneumatic nail gun, when all you need to do your hobby woodworking is a $2 hammer.
Of course, after 500 hours of play since my last reset, I have all the modules needed to outfit an Anaconda, already engineered, and I could buy the hull pretty easily at the moment by selling the little used ships of my fleet. But as I said, I presently have no job for it to perform that isn't done better by my Python. Not only is the Python's Supercruise handling better, but it can dock with outposts.
The only thing I envision using an Anaconda for is deep space exploration. Until exploration is fleshed out more, I see little point in using nearly 300 million credits worth of ship to transport less than two million credits worth of exploration equipment. If it wasn't for the fact that I like driving the SRV, the Hauler would still be my exploration ship of choice.
Until then, I'll keep flying for fun, and sometimes even put profit in my proverbial crosshairs, and get that Anaconda hull without having to grind at all in this game.
You think that's crazy? You should hear some of my other ideas for how i would like the game to work.
Oh man, if i was in charge there would be so much salt on these forums people would be having heart attacks
Exploration challenge? Seriously? It's zero-ask repetition. Slight sanity was added when they superbuffed the payout for ELW's incentivising that over the old neutron farming which to quote Yamiks "felt like having your soul sucked out of your anus". But now it's basically spot the blue ball in the system map and match it with the holodisplay. If you're going to fire up a spreadsheet and work out goldilocks zones the Cr/hr crashes compared to just 'spot the marble and zoom' and there's no reliable method of getting terraformables by this skill.
Trading is go to inara.cz and then dock/undock 10,000 times A-B-A. And you can even skip that by docking 10,010 times with 4t less cargo and a docking computer instead. So the ultra deep challenge ... is to press the '+' button next to the correct commodity (and once every 100 runs swat a tissue paper eagle that's come for "all that tasty cargo")
Combat is fleshed out but essentially unbalanced by the big 3 having 8 utility slots and therefore insane shielding. On top of insane firepower. PvP is complex and thrilling but has no overlap with PvE and no in-game reward.
Mining ... the less said the better. There's a reason "Beyond" is working on mining and exploration.
A great game is easy to learn and difficult to master. ED is the exact opposite - extremely difficult to learn and dead easy to master. After the learning phase everything is repetition of the same few easy, virtually riskless tasks. Saying "you have choice" as to which easy risk free carrer you want to do is missing the point. It's no improvement that instead of doing 600 brain dead trading loops, I can do 200 brain dead trading loops plus 200 brain dead mining rock shoots plus 200 brain dead DSS scans. What Yamiks is saying is - let people progress faster by taking high skill engagements.
NecoMachina
N
THIS! Holy crap, I've been searching for the words to explain my core frustration with Elite for 3 years now. This sums it up nicely.
I had a TON of fun during the initial learning curve stages of the game. There was alot to learn, and a sense of wonder to it all. Then once I moved past the "new player" stage, it hit a wall for me. There was nothing but "same-ness" everywhere. Nothing but doing the same things over and over (grind).
In most games, there is a learning curve, and then at the end there is an endgame where all you've learned is tested. But in Elite, after the learning curve....nothing. No challenge, other than the grind for the big ships, if you choose to make that a goal. The only "end game" is PVP, and that's never been something I enjoyed.
I'd love to go out exploring more. I think that COULD be my "endgame", but the mechanics are just...ugh. Jump, scan while fuel scooping, target body, move to within range and point nose at it for 10 seconds. It's hard to think of a more basic, stripped-down, boring implementation of how exploration could have been done. Hopefully this will change Q4 2018. I wish I could believe that without any doubts. But this is the team that took the exact same missions we've always had, smooshed two or three of them together and stamped a chain icon on them and claimed the mission system was improved. If exploration is "improved" with the same level of imagination and effort...
Problem with grind is today's people mentality, I was watching my daily sports videos - this one perfectly describes today's people 'I want it now' mentality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnX25b9AKa8&feature=youtu.be&t=26
Nobody enjoys the process anymore...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnX25b9AKa8&feature=youtu.be&t=26
Nobody enjoys the process anymore...
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![[VR] Enexemander](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/119/119036.jpg?1621636716){kind=avatar}
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
If you're out exploring and hunting for blue balls, you're doing it wrong. You're leaving 10's, maybe 100's of millions of credits on the table. Terraformables can be any color, and they hand out fat stacks for finding them. They are reliably found in the goldilocks zone of the different star types.
I didn't say trading was challenging. But I think that's actually a pretty good thing. It's good to have some activity that everyone can do to work towards their goals. If you trap something behind an achievement - say, kill a deadly Anaconda in this unengineered and poorly fit eagle we give you for this mission - not many people are going to be able to do that. I doubt most people can even finish the tutorial combat challenges.
This game is somewhat hard to learn and difficult to master- if you focus on the flight model. I've bought the game for several friends and watched their first hour of play. That's the deal. I'll buy it, but you have to stream the first hour. It easily pays for itself in comedy factor. I was watching my friend dock (smart guy- chemist, good at video games in general) and I was literally crying I was laughing so hard. You have to get over a hurdle to even play the game, and from there it's pick your own adventure. If you want the game to have a challenge, do the challenging activities. Turn off training wheels (Cough) I mean Flight Assist. Use fixed weapons. Hunt in Corrupted Nav beacons with cargo so they come to you.
But don't sit in your ultra shielded safe ship doing A-B-A runs all day and tell me how easy the game is. Stop doing milk runs if you want adventure.
You're telling me the game doesn't reward skill- I'm telling you it does. If you can map an asteroid field and mine in a hazardous RES, your payout is going to be MUCH higher than if you just drop into a random ring (even if you know where to go). If you're better at combat, you're going to kill things faster and get a higher payout. That's obvious, isn't it?
NecoMachina
N
I think you missed alot of his point. He said great games are EASY TO LEARN, HARD TO MASTER. Even you yourself said your friends have a heck of a time learning the basics. You said people have a hard time finishing the tutorials. That backs up his point that this game is HARD TO LEARN. And then once you have got the basics down, what's "hard" about the game? The AI is generally a pushover if you're even remotely competent. Yes, there is a lot of "busy work". But what about searching the goldilocks zone for terraformable planets is a challenge? What about mapping an asteroid field is a challenge?
Does the game reward skill? Absolutely. I don't think that's quite the point he was trying to make though. The point was it's the exact opposite of "easy to learn, hard to master". All of the difficulty is on the front end. Learning to dock. Learning the basic of piloting. Figuring out all the idiosyncrasies of the game. Once you get the basics down and get a decently outfitted ship, almost all of the challenge goes away and it becomes mostly busy-work. The game should have MOST of the challenge later on, not right up front. But Elite does it backwards from what you see in almost any other game.
As for turning off flight assist and using fixed weapons, yes that makes it more challenging. But YOU are artificially making it challenging. It's like taking a game you find to be too easy, and doing a speedrun of it or something. Yes, there are ways to challenge yourself, but it's not built into the core game design. And it probably should be IMO.
Anyways, the point is the balance and the game design are all out of whack. Grind is being used because there really isn't any other way to keep progression-based players occupied.
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Obviously incorrect..
Take into account the randomness of ship builds and ship bounties, means you can take 5 mins to kill an elite Anaconda and get 90k and in another case kill a Master Anaconda in < 1 minute and get 300k.
Used to be FDLs were worth 200k + last night all the ones I killed gave < 100k.
Then add in the new pathetic flight model that see you fighting a wing of 3 ships, and then another ship floats in front of you and gets hit.
So you get a bounty and now that wings is on yer .
So you kill them all, and then have to wake to a new system.
Then wake back.
Then logout because the new bounty system is bugged and you'll still be 'Wanted' (logging back in clears it)
So, no.. You don't nec. kill faster, nor get higher payouts.