Can we play yet?

[Sup3rfluiD]

Sooo, as we come to the end of another yawnfest week of "cart random crap" cg's,
can we now please have some content for the 6-7000 combat pilots which the cg left home for the last fortnight or so?

Or are you seriously expecting trade pilots who benefit little from developing anti thargoid combat weapons to advance the script,
whilst ignoring the target audience completely?

The day I befoul my combat ships with cargo holds will just never come.

 

[Brett C]

Cutting to the chase here...

whilst ignoring the target audience completely?

What is the 'target audience' to you?

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

Cutting to the chase here...


What is the 'target audience' to you?

the combat pilots who will use the weapons these trade cg's are being used to advance

look at the participation rates, then tell me how sensible it is to exclude combat players from the plot development

 

[Sphinx2k]

It is surprising that there are no combat CG's to complement the trading ones.... zzzz

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Sooo, as we come to the end of another yawnfest week of "cart random crap" cg's,
can we now please have some content for the 6-7000 combat pilots which the cg left home for the last fortnight or so?

Or are you seriously expecting trade pilots who benefit little from developing anti thargoid combat weapons to advance the script,
whilst ignoring the target audience completely?

The day I befoul my combat ships with cargo holds will just never come.

Maybe you should broaden your horizons.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

It is surprising that there are no combat CG's to complement the trading ones.... zzzz

The disappointing thing here is that it is not surprising at all.
Many combat orientated pilots, myself included have partitioned and posted for a long time that there is a definitive trade bias in cg events.

To me this is ludicrous considering all bounty cg participation numbers have eclipsed trade related ones in every single instance.

Maybe you should broaden your horizons.

Im e3, I know what I like.

Blaze your own trail, but if you want to fight bugs, first you must trade.... seriously?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

What is wrong with having the traders do the hard work in getting the combat people what they need?

How would combat help in the development of new technologies?

My only beef with the CGs is how you can buy goods that are not Thargoid stuff to advance the Thargoid related CGs. If it was collect alien stuff only, it would make a lot more sense.

 

[M00ka]

I was under the impression that one of the latest CG's turning into a bounty-fest because of the blockade - surely that would be combat related!

 

[Sandmann]

Isn't "hauling stuff" what traders do? Just what do you want to shoot at in order to advance weapon technologies?

 

[Kaocraft]

Cutting to the chase here...


What is the 'target audience' to you?

Every one of these CGs was portrayed as a request for Alien materials to do "research". These materials required would-be participants to engage with the Thargoid content in order to acquire them. If the CGs had been balanced solely around these materials, then they would be more thematically appropriate and would be oriented towards people who were interested in Thargoid content.

Unfortunately, and possibly because Frontier were afraid of insufficient participation, the CGs also included requests for market commodities. This reduced every CG to a defecto hauling CG.

It's tempting to claim that players have the choice to participate by whatever method they prefer, but sorry that's not how it works. One method is unbelievably easy and generic, the other is very difficult and specific.

If you allow both methods to move the needle, you are effectively excluding one of the methods. This effect is made worse when the simple easy method moves the needle exactly as much as the complex difficult method.

So, Target Audience. Maybe a CG centered around an Alien Invasion story, where the rewards are new weapons to fight the aliens, should be designed in such a way as to reward (and require!) interaction with the aliens?

 

[Sandmann]

So, Target Audience. Maybe a CG centered around an Alien Invasion story, where the rewards are new weapons to fight the aliens, should be designed in such a way as to reward (and require!) interaction with the aliens?

Since "the game" tries to cater to everyone, wouldn't that effect exclusion of a large section (traders) of the "target audience" (ie: everyone) while strongly rewarding a small part of that audience (those who enjoy shooting thargoids)?

 

[Alex Brentnall]

You mean the traders have to trade to get the combat players weapons to fight the Thargoids almost as if the two are working together as some sort of a community to save themselves from the aliens?
Colour me shocked, shocked I say!

Ok, cutting the sarcasm out: I kinda get it I really do but it's the blank refusal to join in I don't get, there's plenty of ways without actually having a combat CG. Buy a cheap ship or a not so cheap ship to join in so you don't have to put cargo racks in your combat ship. Even though with module storage I don't get the big fuss about that anyway.

If I were a 100% combat pilot I would either be doing the thargoid tissue samples myself or offering to protect traders/scientists so they can go gather them. You get to fight thargoids and even PvP if you protect them all the way back and they advance the CG. It's a win-win. As far as I'm aware all the CGs from Aegis have all featured thargoid tissue samples. Get yourself a science friend to protect so you can indirectly help.


I do entirely disagree with your "Target Audience" though. Not everyone fits into "Trade pilot" and "Combat pilot", I'd argue most of the players in the game change up their activities regularly (at least in my experience). Otherwise nobody would be Triple Elite, I know in the space of a single play-session I've done combat/exploration/trading and fuel ratting before. So that CG I may have joined to trade in has benefited me later in the week when I go to shoot Thargoids. Just because you identify as a specific pilot only doesn't mean other people restrict themselves to a singular activity.

 

[Aashenfox]

I haven't participated in any non-combat CGs. I have no interest in carting stuff around in vulnerable ships in this game, I want to be in a ship that I can defend myself optimally in, and that means no cargo. I'm happy for traders to do the CGs for me, but it would be nice to participate sometimes.

 

[Kaocraft]

Since "the game" tries to cater to everyone, wouldn't that effect exclusion of a large section (traders) of the "target audience" (ie: everyone) while strongly rewarding a small part of that audience (those who enjoy shooting thargoids)?

But we're not talking about the entire game. We're talking about a specific set of CGs oriented around the Thargoids. There have been many different CGs at different times and they all have been exclusionary. And most of them have been trade oriented and exclusionary to other activities. But there have of course been mining CGs and Combat CGs as well. The problem with this particular set of CGs is that they are inclusive of an activity which doesn't have much of anything to do with the theme or content, while also being exclusionary to the very people that the Thargoid content is oriented towards.

 

[Chainguns]

Unfortunately, and possibly because Frontier were afraid of insufficient participation, the CGs also included requests for market commodities. This reduced every CG to a defecto hauling CG. It's tempting to claim that players have the choice to participate by whatever method they prefer,

The thing is, this is a game and player behaviour is ultimately determined by in-game reward. If you offer the same reward for both 5 mins hauling and 2 hours Thargoid jumping, then at best a small fraction of players will do one Thargoid run just to see the new assets / tick a box. But it shouldn't rely that heavily on roleplaying and personal goals because at some point during that you just feel like a fool being in the top 75% when dumber and lazier CMDRs that spent half the time you did are in the top 10% and looking at a 30m CR pay cheque

 

[Kaocraft]

You mean the traders have to trade to get the combat players weapons to fight the Thargoids almost as if the two are working together as some sort of a community to save themselves from the aliens?
Colour me shocked, shocked I say!

Ok, cutting the sarcasm out: I kinda get it I really do but it's the blank refusal to join in I don't get, there's plenty of ways without actually having a combat CG. Buy a cheap ship or a not so cheap ship to join in so you don't have to put cargo racks in your combat ship. Even though with module storage I don't get the big fuss about that anyway.

If I were a 100% combat pilot I would either be doing the thargoid tissue samples myself or offering to protect traders/scientists so they can go gather them. You get to fight thargoids and even PvP if you protect them all the way back and they advance the CG. It's a win-win. As far as I'm aware all the CGs from Aegis have all featured thargoid tissue samples. Get yourself a science friend to protect so you can indirectly help.


I do entirely disagree with your "Target Audience" though. Not everyone fits into "Trade pilot" and "Combat pilot", I'd argue most of the players in the game change up their activities regularly (at least in my experience). Otherwise nobody would be Triple Elite, I know in the space of a single play-session I've done combat/exploration/trading and fuel ratting before. So that CG I may have joined to trade in has benefited me later in the week when I go to shoot Thargoids. Just because you identify as a specific pilot only doesn't mean other people restrict themselves to a singular activity.

Youre missing the point. There is no reason to contribute Thargoid tissue samples, or assist someone else in doing so, if you can just buy explosives at a store and drop those off instead. In fact, the ability to contribute by hauling explosives, is a good reason why you actively *shouldn't* bother with Thargoid Tissue Samples!

Now, your rebuttal is going to be that you still have the *choice* of going out and gathering tissue samples if you *want*. And you're right - you CAN still do that. But the only REASON to go and gather Thargoid Tissue Samples instead of explosives is because you *feel* like it. You can already do that anyway, without a CG. In which case the existence of the CG factors in precisely not-at-all, and might as well not accept the Tissue samples in the first place.

 

[Kaocraft]

The thing is, this is a game and player behaviour is ultimately determined by in-game reward. If you offer the same reward for both 5 mins hauling and 2 hours Thargoid jumping, then at best a small fraction of players will do one Thargoid run just to see the new assets / tick a box. But it shouldn't rely that heavily on roleplaying and personal goals because at some point during that you just feel like a fool being in the top 75% when dumber and lazier CMDRs that spent half the time you did are in the top 10% and looking at a 30m CR pay cheque

Which is why the Alien Research CGs with their headline Requests for Alien Materials should ONLY accept Alien Materials and nothing else.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Youre missing the point. There is no reason to contribute Thargoid tissue samples, or assist someone else in doing so, if you can just buy explosives at a store and drop those off instead. In fact, the ability to contribute by hauling explosives, is a good reason why you actively *shouldn't* bother with Thargoid Tissue Samples!

Now, your rebuttal is going to be that you still have the *choice* of going out and gathering tissue samples if you *want*. And you're right - you CAN still do that. But the only REASON to go and gather Thargoid Tissue Samples instead of explosives is because you *feel* like it. You can already do that anyway, without a CG. In which case the existence of the CG factors in precisely not-at-all, and might as well not accept the Tissue samples in the first place.

What would be nice would be if the tissue samples somehow counted for more. Say, each ton of samples counts as 25 tons in the CG.

 

[Sandmann]

But we're not talking about the entire game. We're talking about a specific set of CGs oriented around the Thargoids. There have been many different CGs at different times and they all have been exclusionary. And most of them have been trade oriented and exclusionary to other activities. But there have of course been mining CGs and Combat CGs as well. The problem with this particular set of CGs is that they are inclusive of an activity which doesn't have much of anything to do with the theme or content, while also being exclusionary to the very people that the Thargoid content is oriented towards.

To exclude a group because they don't WANT to perform a given activity is different to excluding somebody because they are incapable of performing an activity due to skill lack, especially when the proposed reward is unable to be gained in any manner that requires different skills.

Combat pilots CAN haul stuff and simply choose not to. Trade pilots are neither equipped nor in many cases skilled to be able to perform difficult combat.

Only having missions that do not cater to your particular interests even though you can do them is not the same thing as only having missions that you're unable to do.

 

[Sup3rfluiD]

You mean the traders have to trade to get the combat players weapons to fight the Thargoids almost as if the two are working together as some sort of a community to save themselves from the aliens?
Colour me shocked, shocked I say!

Ok, cutting the sarcasm out: I kinda get it I really do but it's the blank refusal to join in I don't get, there's plenty of ways without actually having a combat CG. Buy a cheap ship or a not so cheap ship to join in so you don't have to put cargo racks in your combat ship. Even though with module storage I don't get the big fuss about that anyway.

If I were a 100% combat pilot I would either be doing the thargoid tissue samples myself or offering to protect traders/scientists so they can go gather them. You get to fight thargoids and even PvP if you protect them all the way back and they advance the CG. It's a win-win. As far as I'm aware all the CGs from Aegis have all featured thargoid tissue samples. Get yourself a science friend to protect so you can indirectly help.


I do entirely disagree with your "Target Audience" though. Not everyone fits into "Trade pilot" and "Combat pilot", I'd argue most of the players in the game change up their activities regularly (at least in my experience). Otherwise nobody would be Triple Elite, I know in the space of a single play-session I've done combat/exploration/trading and fuel ratting before. So that CG I may have joined to trade in has benefited me later in the week when I go to shoot Thargoids. Just because you identify as a specific pilot only doesn't mean other people restrict themselves to a singular activity.

Ok your views, sarcasm included are pretty solid, so i'll boil it down to a few simple points.

If cg's are to be used as the vehicle for the community to advance the thargoid content-

why not actively engage the vast majority of combat relevant commanders sitting around waiting for a scripted role.
let us fight for our prize. sure let the traders trade, the science/canon collect and the sherrif/cowboy element pvp,

but why stifle the fantastic collaborations of pilots that were actively engaging the enemy by nurfing our tools moments after they became effective?
and if doing this was always the plan then why not write combat cg participation into incremental roll out of the update.