PvP Aliens are ruining PvP

[Mike Reacher]

I wonder what ED would be like if there was a more human like alien whose way of life was pirating and taking over planets. (In groups)
And humans would have to gang up and take the planet back. Then have truces to work out differences ........
But these Thargoids got in the way of a developing story. (Just my 2 bits)

 

[rootsrat]

Probably, the trouble is, I don't see another way a collaborative curated story could be played out.

Well, the CG's as a story progression is not a bad tool at all - I'm fine with that. But somehow these particular ones were a little bit meh in my opinion. More than a bit actually. They were just plain boring and dull. There was no real challenge, just "haul as much stuff as you can". Most of the items were just ordinary stuff you can get at any starport. They could have been thought out a bit better IMHO.

Remember the Cerberus Plague? Where players had to choose which starports to save? There was a choice to be made - we either try to help all and fail or focus our efforts on a single starport and win. That was engaging. It forced the community to actually cooperate to achieve a common goal. I personally loved it. I still think this was the best CG storyline to date.

The Aegis ones could possibly ditch the ordinarily available goods and focus purely on Thargoids tech instead. Let the players use all that new content that was introduced to the game.

We have Barnacles, we have Meta Alloys, we have alien ship crash sites, we have alien bases, there is also all this new salvage stuff - scientific data, encrypted correspondence, damaged escape pods, all that kind of stuff that involved Thargoid related gameplay. And all that could have been used as Aegis CG goods to be delivered. I'd be the first one trying to grab all that salvage from Non-Human Signal Sources, right from under Goids' noses. I'd happily search the alien bases for the required stuff - and if there were Thargoids there do defend the stuff and stop me from getting it - even better!

That's much more interesting and fun than good old "haul me some explosives, some nerve agents and some whatever-the-other stuff-is". Been there, done that, yawn, boring. I don't know, maybe FDEV have other plans for all that new stuff that is in the game, but at the moment all we can do with it is just visit it. Once you experience it once, there is no reason to come back really. How many times can you watch alien ships scooping the escape pods? How many times can you activate the weird machine at their bases? Let us actually DO something interesting with all that shiny and cool stuff. Because it really is new, cool and shiny - and I LOVE this new content. A shame that all we get is hauling explosives back and forth...

All the ideas I've listed above can be easily realised with the current CG mechanics. There is no need to reinvent the wheel - like I said, generally CG as a story progression tool are perfectly fine. It's the contents that's just old and boring.

 

[Ozram]

Could you flesh those ideas out a little more?
I don't see how a large group of people could benefit from triggered events that would be activated by a single person?

Each trigger may only benefit a single or a small group of commanders, but these would keep the story going in a fluid way as it would take an actual player to set things in motion. That part keeps it personal. The gal net updates can be read and shared by all (along with the names of involved commanders immortalised at each stage of the ongoing saga). Technologies discovered would likewise trigger the galnet (and set in motion repercussions and new sets of triggers) but also allow new toys for all commanders to play with (and while these would have Thargoids in mind, they would also shake things up a bit and be useful for all gameplay where weapons, resistances, scanners and whatever else is possible is concerned.
This creates individual rewards in terms of recognition and an overal sense that it is the players driving the story (or at least the pace of the story) as it unfolds.
This can have a lasting effect on all aspects of the game, from exploration and mining to combat and the delivery of goods (both rare and bulk). It allows new things to enter and old things to become obsolete in a fluid, in game way. In my opinion it would give the game a sense of history in the making as opposed to the only static feel it has now.

 

[Kerrash]

The trouble is tho, any event that is a unique trigger is a lot of work. Not only that, but FD have taken flak in the past for similar things.

 

[Ozram]

The trouble is tho, any event that is a unique trigger is a lot of work. Not only that, but FD have taken flak in the past for similar things.

Sounds like you’re just making excuses now. You asked for alternatives that might be more engaging and I provided. Setting a trigger in the scope that I’m sugesting would barely require more than a good storyteller and an automatic notification to be sent to the devs once the conditions of the trigger have been met.
This isn’t even a new way of doing things; it’s not like my suggestion reinvents the wheel.

 

[Red Anders]

So I just noticed the fourth Aegis initiative CG barely made it above tier 2.

It's kind of sad, really. The Thargoid invasion could have been a lot of fun.

I think this goes a long way toward supporting the argument that not many wanted AX weapons to work quite the way they do.

I think the main thing it tells us is that from memory we've had trade CGs for eight of the last ten weeks and frankly, that's about three weeks too many.

 

[Kerrash]

Sounds like you’re just making excuses now. You asked for alternatives that might be more engaging and I provided. Setting a trigger in the scope that I’m sugesting would barely require more than a good storyteller and an automatic notification to be sent to the devs once the conditions of the trigger have been met.
This isn’t even a new way of doing things; it’s not like my suggestion reinvents the wheel.

No, wasn't meaning to be short, my next round on Fortnite started

My point was, that anything that is a one off event needs to be something that a large group of people can take part in and run for a reasonable period of time.

The treasure hunt CGs were a good example of where your ideas might fit.

 

[Ozram]

No, wasn't meaning to be short, my next round on Fortnite started

My point was, that anything that is a one off event needs to be something that a large group of people can take part in and run for a reasonable period of time.

The treasure hunt CGs were a good example of where your ideas might fit.

My idea (excuse me if I’m not being clear RL gives me these brief moments) is for a standardised framework so while each trigger might be unique, the way to input it would not. In other words they could alter the parameters of each trigger but it would still be part of the same framework of conditions met, more content delivered. These would make for more frequent but smaller occurrences and when enough of these sub triggers are met they can deliver a larger change. Amimakinanysense? Uh, gotta go. Wish I had time to deliver this in a more robust response.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

These Thargoids really need to get past this wining and dining stage and go for a full blown invasion. To make this thing succeed CMDRs need to get a sense of urgency. The Thargoid threat needs to be such that all other things will have to wait until it is dealt with.

At the moment it's just an optional little side show. I want to see the Bubble burn damnit.

 

[Theodrid]

These Thargoids really need to get past this wining and dining stage and go for a full blown invasion. To make this thing succeed CMDRs need to get a sense of urgency. The Thargoid threat needs to be such that all other things will have to wait until it is dealt with.

At the moment it's just an optional little side show. I want to see the Bubble burn damnit.

Indeed Ziggy, I posted before the goids showed up that I wanted a 'shock and awe' invasion of human space and not a 'woohoo, over here, come and see us if you like' approach.

 

[Oggy85]

on topic of AX weapons and how they are useless against anything other than goids, I must say that it seems like FD does not think twice when they implement something.

this could have been a great chance to reduce influence of over engineered conventional weapons, but in returns they enforce you to use only AX weapons in your builds because goids have to be so powerful...

to make things worse aliens are so rare right now that you have to go to specific area and look for them in USS....

If they were manageable (not easily killed but challenging) with maybe 2 medium hardpoints, if another type of damage could be countered but would make defense system not immune to all types of damage (harder to get jack of all trades), if there were widely present, if they were actively aggressive and attacked unprovoked then we would have to take them into account and maybe then they would put some balance in what engineers have obviously unbalanced beyond recognition.

 

[besieger]

These Thargoids really need to get past this wining and dining stage and go for a full blown invasion. To make this thing succeed CMDRs need to get a sense of urgency. The Thargoid threat needs to be such that all other things will have to wait until it is dealt with.

At the moment it's just an optional little side show. I want to see the Bubble burn damnit.

Indeed Ziggy, I posted before the goids showed up that I wanted a 'shock and awe' invasion of human space and not a 'woohoo, over here, come and see us if you like' approach.

I never thought I would see you two on the PVP side the fence... not only that I never thought I would agree with you, for me this is another example of how trying to make everyone happy hurts the game... sure lots of PVE players are going to get burnt if the goids went full force on the bubble but lets be honest here, this is meant to be an invasion is it not? like ziggy said this is nothing more than an optional side show one that you have to explicitly opt into to through dropping into the NHSS out in deep space...

 

[Ozram]

Don't interdict easy targets if you can't stand the C-logging?

Maybe don’t condone or try and justify combat logging on these forums. I think I read somewhere it’s against forum rules. One would think you’d know that.

 

[Kerrash]

Maybe don’t condone or try and justify combat logging on these forums. I think I read somewhere it’s against forum rules. One would think you’d know that.

I have already explained several times after that post that this was not my position. Please check again.

 

[Kerrash]

And yet a week later people are still misinterpreting what I was saying...

 

[Gunnet]

Maybe don’t condone or try and justify combat logging on these forums. I think I read somewhere it’s against forum rules. One would think you’d know that.

From the mod posts I've seen on the subject, I believe it's just against the rules to encourage other people to use exploits or brag about using them yourself. There aren't (again, from what I've seen) overbearing crimethink rules preventing people discussing what motivates players to use exploits or what effects they may have on the game.

It's just factual to say that griefing (as defined by Sandro, i.e. attacking much weaker ships) significantly increases somebody's chances of seeing players combat log.

 

[Captain Willard]

Hard for me which side of the fence to jump to. Thargoids had no mercy on who was next in the original, I do believe everyone should get a small taste. PAIN, it lets you know you are alive.
Everyone in the bubble needs at least a chance to be pulled out of hyperspace, shut down then destroyed.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I never thought I would see you two on the PVP side the fence... not only that I never thought I would agree with you, for me this is another example of how trying to make everyone happy hurts the game... sure lots of PVE players are going to get burnt if the goids went full force on the bubble but lets be honest here, this is meant to be an invasion is it not? like ziggy said this is nothing more than an optional side show one that you have to explicitly opt into to through dropping into the NHSS out in deep space...

If anything, they could just be good bois and leave to Colonia. The CCN will welcome them

 

[Jack Schitt]

Got linked here from another thread and I'm only really reading it as background to the popcorn and beer, but I did notice that nobody seems to have responded to this:

It's not really mindless, it's faster to level up your combat rank against players than NPC's isn't it? (iirc)

The understanding I had from the earliest days of ED was that the complete opposite of this was true. That PVP kills (or murder of other PF members, if we're keeping it in-universe) does not contribute at all to PF combat rating progression.

If this has changed, can someone please cite where and when this change occurred? If it hasn't, perhaps it's something that needs reiterating from time to time so players don't waste their time targeting other players in the hope of affecting their combat rating.

 

[Kerrash]

... this is meant to be an invasion is it not? ...

That specific word has not been used by anyone from Frontier