This community is 'different'

[[VR] Mad Mike]

On a slightly different topic, I am quite saddened to hear that two people who posted here evidently got banned. It was never my intention to make this such an emotive thread, although in hindsight maybe I should have just shut up and not said anything.

Bans are not permenant (unless they went totally off the reservation) so don't worry too much

 

[Patrick_68000]

The community is fantastic, David said. No problem

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well said Mike! It might surprise some here but even (apparently) me, the Whitest Knight going have had a few messages from the Mods telling me to I have stepped over the line and each and every instance was when I was complaining about some aspect of the game. Yes, me complaining, who would have thunk that!

I can't remember if I have seen anyone religiously post only upmost praise for the game and vehemently attack any and all that disagree. In my time here I have got to recognise a few of the regulars and apart from a couple, most are fairly well done the line, they support the game but also will bring up faults and problems as they see them. The difference is a lot of the posters I am talking about complain constructively. Not only raising (or agreeing) the problem, but explaining why they don't like it and even suggesting ways it could be fixed. My original rant was those who jump on the forum and their posts basically state: 'FD Sucks', or 'This game is so boring, I quit a month ago', 'There is only grind here, I want my money back', or the now classic 'Star Citizen is a million times better than this heap of biological waste'. Those are just trolls and unfortunately, us 'White Knights' (who are sometimes black or at least a dark grey) will defend the game and speaking only for myself, I make no apologies about that.

On a slightly different topic, I am quite saddened to hear that two people who posted here evidently got banned. It was never my intention to make this such an emotive thread, although in hindsight maybe I should have just shut up and not said anything.

Ha, many of us have been banned once or twice, its nearly always just a cool-off periods. We're basically kids in FD's house, and the mods are the reluctant babysitters.

 

[Whiterose]

Well lets face it, people who spend all their free time playing a space game are hardly likely to be the pillars of society.

 

[V'larr]

Well lets face it, people who spend all their free time playing a space game are hardly likely to be the pillars of society.

Uh...well...your mom...is a pillar of society....

No no...uh...takes one to know one?

No, wait! I know you are but what am I?! [noob]

 

[Tikigod]

**** WARNING - MINI RANT ABOUT TO COMMENCE ****

A bit of background - I have been a gamer since gaming started on computers - played to exhaustion the original Elite. And if a game captures my attention, and there is a forum for it, I tend to get involved in it. Most game forums talk about the game, and you can get a lot of good information from them. They can also be fun, and at times biting.

But this forum is different. There seems to be a not so small minority that every thread, every post is an attack on the game. If FDev make an announcement I can just about list who will respond immediately attacking everything that is said, everything that wasn't said and everything that is inferred. If a player makes a thread these same people will hijack the tread to again voice their displeasure about the game. According to them, nothing works, everything is broken, all other space games are far superior and Frontier Development are either going broke, have shelved the game, or are conspiring with the devil. The strange thing is there is a lot of 'complaints' but very little constructive criticism and a dearth of suggestions to remediate these often perceived problems. I am beginning to wonder if some of these vocal opponents of the game still play it or in truth, every played it!

Are these people actively trying to push players away? Do they realise that new or even prospective players might read the forums before deciding to buy the game, see all the doom and gloom posts, the attacks on anyone who might disagree with them and decide not to buy or play the game? And god forbid if a player comes here to ask a question, the post is normally ignored, the player is ridiculed or told to 'git gud' and the post quickly disappears off the first page, never to be seen again - if it wasn't take over by someone's pet peeve of the month.

I am even hesitant to mention the quality of the complaints, never in the annals of history has there been so many top level, expert programmers playing a game - because they all think a major change to the code can be whipped out before finishing work for the day. Hey they can imagine it, so why can't FDev drop everything and program it right now.

Look, I am all for robust and entertaining discussions here in the forum, hell I encourage it. I use to love some of the epic war of words in the Battlefield 2 forums about which gun was better, are all medics stupid etc. And whilst there were complaints, not to the extent I see here. It seems whatever Frontier Development do, they do it wrong. If they advise the community that they will be working on existing features to fix bugs, they are attacked for not developing new content. If they advise they are bring new content out, the very same people will complain that the company should be fixing what is already there first.

I guess in the end, I just can't understand why these people are here. They evidently despise the game, loath the Company that makes it and will do everything in the power to rubbish the product. Honestly, if, as they keep on telling us, there are better games out there put out by better companies, please go and play those and leave us to enjoy this game without being told endlessly how bad it is.

**** END OF RANT - FLAME SUIT ON ****

The forum community used to be much different during initial release, players would positively discuss their accomplishments like travelling to xxxx in a experimental Sidewinder build pushing the limits of what was possible with the ship and so forth.

Over the years though that has all kind of gone away, now it's mostly "My big ship should be able to do more!", "My xxx should have more slots so I don't have to consider trade offs and only get net gains from all decisions!" and such.

I can only guess many have either clocked lots of hour or exploited broken aspects of the game to get enough credits to have access to everything and now only settle for the most obviously practical tool for any job and using anything lesser for a challenge or to make things more interesting is simply not a option.... which leaves a lot of people sat around in stupidly effective at everything Pythons and the like waiting for Frontier to move the goal post up a notch or two, only for the players to immediately meet those new limits due to their insanely inflated credit balances.

(Doesn't help that last year for months many new players were exploiting a certain unintended hole to go from a Sidewinder to a full kitted Python in under a week... which then led to a influx of players who quite simply have never really experienced the game properly. They just rushed to the most unbalanced borked ship doing the same back and forth activity for a few days and then demanded Frontier give them more because they were supposedly already at 'end game'.... that period alone did a lot of harm to the community aspect)

If Frontier then try to introduce non-credit means of acquiring things, there is then outcries of things like "This sucks Frontier as I can't figure out how to game the system and bypass the period of having to play the game to get to the point I want! Screw you RNG Casino gameplay!".


Though Frontier are partly responsible for how things have gone, as their reaction time to broken holes in the game are often in the months, and they've neglected large aspects of the game just to keep on repeating a closed loop of mission board overhauls and combat & USS tweaks over and over and over again spanning 3 years now.

To top it all off it doesn't help that in the last year they've gladly inflated the payouts for combat involved activities but gone to great lengths to patch out anything that means non-combat activities are equally as attractive... it somewhat detracts from the appeal of investing 3-5 days hauling passengers to the other side of the galaxy for 4-8mil when you can earn 200,000-800,000 credits jumping 8LY and killing a single NPC simpleton in the space of 20 minutes.... yet everytime anything happens to boost the payout for such actions, rather than trim off the more silly fringe cases and keep the average payouts increased, Frontier opt to just stomp all non-combat payouts flat.

 

[zaikoji]

Whilst I'm scared of a lot of the posters on this forum, I often find their knowledge and insights to be useful. There are also a lot of golden-hearted folks too. I've never posted a query without receiving a number of helpful replies. I'm just damned careful how I word anything.

 

[Globusdiablo]

You have not been on many game forums, have you?
This is by far the friendliest forum I know of. On every board there will be haters, defenders, noobs and veterans, and of course trolls who are just there for the giggles.

If you don't possess the mental shields to withstand the humanity average spread, you can just keep yourself from Dangerous Discussion. Everywhere else, this forum is awesome.

Aye Commander.

It's been a while, but it never gets old:

Spoiler

Never argue with idiots. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

[NecoMachina]

Actually we had these posts from people both hating the game and OP but they got deleted by the mods because (as always) they were insulting and rude. IIRC two people got banned from the forums after posting in this thread, which should show you how bad it actually is.

Anyway, if people don't like a game so much that they will never play it again, it probably is the best if they move on to another game they like. It's very unlikely that FDEV changes the game into something completely different, and many people don't want that because they like certain aspects of the game. I can't see what's so wrong with relayers's post. "I'll stop playing / take my money elsewhere" just sucks as an argument.

Person X: "I'll leave the game if you don't change the flight model into something completely different. You are bad developers and you don't know what you are doing."

Me: "I'll leave the game if they do change the flight model, so get lost!"

The post wasn't that bad on it's own. It's the cumulative effect. I took a break from the game when 2.4 released. Frustrated with more bugs than I feel is acceptable, and I felt like the devs were trying to slap a pretty coat of paint on an old rusty car when the engine didn't even run right - priorities of what is being worked on first was all wrong IMO. And on top of that what DID get added wasn't even fully fleshed out. Multicrew added, but only combat roles - no science officer or anything. Wings added, but no wing missions and incentives to NOT wing up because bounties were split between wingmates (has since been changed). Planetary landings, but not enough to do down there. And now 2.4 with Thargoids in signal sources, only thing to do with them is shoot them, science limpets, drop them cargo, or ignore them. I was hoping for so much more. Maybe that's coming, maybe it isn't - all I have to go on is the past 2 years of what they've given us which does not inspire me with confidence.

So I've taken a break, was gonna patiently wait it out until Q4 2018 when exploration gets some love. Was hoping to engage with the devs, express my frustrations with how things have unfolded over the past 3 years, and what I'd like to see change. But if I can't speak my mind on the forums without getting called a whiner or a special snowflake constantly, then screw it, I'm out. The devs, the mods, and the people who are happy with the game as it is seem to all want us disgruntled folks to just go away and play something else. I guess after 2 years of getting told to go away, I'm finally gonna give in and do just that.

I will admit to be quite bummed out about it. I was a HUGE fan of Elite since 1984. David's vision for Dangerous inspired and excited me like no other game ever has, and I doubt ever will again. But we haven't gotten the game as he described it back then; at least not yet. And I'm not gonna stick around and get talked down to and insulted while I wait to see if the game ever starts to head in that direction. It's not worth it - too many other good games - not great like I was hoping this one would be, but good enough. Too many other things in life to occupy my time to engage with a community who doesn't want you around.

 

[Ozram]

The post wasn't that bad on it's own. It's the cumulative effect. I took a break from the game when 2.4 released. Frustrated with more bugs than I feel is acceptable, and I felt like the devs were trying to slap a pretty coat of paint on an old rusty car when the engine didn't even run right - priorities of what is being worked on first was all wrong IMO. And on top of that what DID get added wasn't even fully fleshed out. Multicrew added, but only combat roles - no science officer or anything. Wings added, but no wing missions and incentives to NOT wing up because bounties were split between wingmates (has since been changed). Planetary landings, but not enough to do down there. And now 2.4 with Thargoids in signal sources, only thing to do with them is shoot them, science limpets, drop them cargo, or ignore them. I was hoping for so much more. Maybe that's coming, maybe it isn't - all I have to go on is the past 2 years of what they've given us which does not inspire me with confidence.

So I've taken a break, was gonna patiently wait it out until Q4 2018 when exploration gets some love. Was hoping to engage with the devs, express my frustrations with how things have unfolded over the past 3 years, and what I'd like to see change. But if I can't speak my mind on the forums without getting called a whiner or a special snowflake constantly, then screw it, I'm out. The devs, the mods, and the people who are happy with the game as it is seem to all want us disgruntled folks to just go away and play something else. I guess after 2 years of getting told to go away, I'm finally gonna give in and do just that.

I will admit to be quite bummed out about it. I was a HUGE fan of Elite since 1984. David's vision for Dangerous inspired and excited me like no other game ever has, and I doubt ever will again. But we haven't gotten the game as he described it back then; at least not yet. And I'm not gonna stick around and get talked down to and insulted while I wait to see if the game ever starts to head in that direction. It's not worth it - too many other good games - not great like I was hoping this one would be, but good enough. Too many other things in life to occupy my time to engage with a community who doesn't want you around.

I have plenty of gripes with ED (some the same as yours) and I’ve been fully allowed to express them sometimes even got dev responses.

 

[Old Duck]

So I've taken a break, was gonna patiently wait it out until Q4 2018 when exploration gets some love.

I used to love ED,
But I had to delete ED
I used to love ED, Oo, yeah
But I had to delete ED
I knew I'd miss ED
So I had to keep ED
It's buried in my recycle bin!
Oh yeah, Oo yeah, whoa, oh yeah

 

[OnePercent]

People are allowed to criticize, as long as it's constructive that aims to improve the game.

 

[Riverside]

Meh, everyone is easy to put in a box with sweeping generalisations until you get to know them, then everyone's different, with their own unique set of triggers.

I like this game, I enjoy a good debate. So I come here to debate topics I enjoy with whoever replies. Most of my friend list is filled with other players I have enjoyed discussing stuff with, whether they agree or not with my view is less important.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Who got banned. I didn't really see anything that bad when I last looked at this thread.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Well I am here, so this community is great. I'm like a bird in a mine, as long as you here me chirping all is good.

 

[jasonbarron]

The post wasn't that bad on it's own. It's the cumulative effect. I took a break from the game when 2.4 released. Frustrated with more bugs than I feel is acceptable, and I felt like the devs were trying to slap a pretty coat of paint on an old rusty car when the engine didn't even run right - priorities of what is being worked on first was all wrong IMO. And on top of that what DID get added wasn't even fully fleshed out. Multicrew added, but only combat roles - no science officer or anything. Wings added, but no wing missions and incentives to NOT wing up because bounties were split between wingmates (has since been changed). Planetary landings, but not enough to do down there. And now 2.4 with Thargoids in signal sources, only thing to do with them is shoot them, science limpets, drop them cargo, or ignore them. I was hoping for so much more. Maybe that's coming, maybe it isn't - all I have to go on is the past 2 years of what they've given us which does not inspire me with confidence.

So I've taken a break, was gonna patiently wait it out until Q4 2018 when exploration gets some love. Was hoping to engage with the devs, express my frustrations with how things have unfolded over the past 3 years, and what I'd like to see change. But if I can't speak my mind on the forums without getting called a whiner or a special snowflake constantly, then screw it, I'm out. The devs, the mods, and the people who are happy with the game as it is seem to all want us disgruntled folks to just go away and play something else. I guess after 2 years of getting told to go away, I'm finally gonna give in and do just that.

I will admit to be quite bummed out about it. I was a HUGE fan of Elite since 1984. David's vision for Dangerous inspired and excited me like no other game ever has, and I doubt ever will again. But we haven't gotten the game as he described it back then; at least not yet. And I'm not gonna stick around and get talked down to and insulted while I wait to see if the game ever starts to head in that direction. It's not worth it - too many other good games - not great like I was hoping this one would be, but good enough. Too many other things in life to occupy my time to engage with a community who doesn't want you around.

I largely agree with your points. The trick to not getting upset with the discussion (as you outlined in the last part of your post) is to remember that you can't be "talked down to" by an idiot(s). Just chart your course and stick to your guns.

People are allowed to criticize, as long as it's constructive that aims to improve the game.

You are wrong. This is a forum where people can criticize however they feel like, providing they don't break the rules. I would say that it's "nicer" when the criticism is couched in constructive language, but it's no requirement.

Who got banned. I didn't really see anything that bad when I last looked at this thread.

I'd like to know that, too. Babelfisch made it sound so dramatic.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

They could have been banned for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with this thread. Doesn't matter why, not our business.

 

[Cervantes01]

It's bleed over from EVE Online. At least the similarities are striking.

I learned how to be toxic on the eve forums, good times...

 

[peteuplink]

We used to have a great community. I've been around Frontiers forums since around 2008 and things were great back then. People talking about Elite, people speculating about what a new Elite game would be like. It was friendly and fun. Then ED came out and the forums quickly got filled up with refugees from Eve Online and it stopped being quite so fun and friendly anymore.

 

[jasonbarron]

We used to have a great community. I've been around Frontiers forums since around 2008 and things were great back then. People talking about Elite, people speculating about what a new Elite game would be like. It was friendly and fun. Then ED came out and the forums quickly got filled up with refugees from Eve Online and it stopped being quite so fun and friendly anymore.

The forum also filled up with people who disagreed with design decisions, development pace and non consensual pvp, just to name a few things. You guys really need to quit staking your claim to righteousness and laying blame on some demographic you personally don't like.

The bottom line is that the forum was friendlier because everyone was busy dreaming about the game they hoped they would get. And now we have reality to temper the discussion.