Only one person lack of imagination can say that!
Why Are Space Legs and Atmospheric Landings Such a Hot Topic?
- Thread starter Gamatech
- Start date
Only one person lack of imagination can say that!
Yes, you are.
http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ac1081437f
"We have made no secret that our ultimate ambition is to be able to land on the surface of planets, as you were able to in the other Elite sequels Frontier and Frontier: First Encounters. We want this feature to push the boundaries as we believe we are doing in other areas of Elite: Dangerous already, like space flight, combat, trading, sound, online, visual fidelity etc.
That means rich, varied experiences. Not just landing pads, but rich content on the surfaces, surface vehicles, the ability to stash things there, to explore. Clearly ‘doing it right’ like this will take time, but we have a plan and will get there via a series of meaningful releases.
We believe that each stage will be incredible, and the result truly breathtaking. What you will see on the worlds will be a mix of procedurally generated content, particularly the landscapes, cloudscapes, compositions and so on, mixed with hand-crafted elements."
"We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:
All is ready for you to walk around your ship.
Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.
Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too."
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Cos we were promised to, look at 10y dev plan!
Now when they don't need more money from KS doesn't mean they don't have to do it, otherwise it would be fraud.
I'm not developer so i don't care what can or can't be done or how much resources will demand, don't promise something you can't fulfill.
Now when they don't need more money from KS doesn't mean they don't have to do it, otherwise it would be fraud.
I'm not developer so i don't care what can or can't be done or how much resources will demand, don't promise something you can't fulfill.
I heard about a house in New Orleans which is available.
Rising Sun is a good name for a ... Motel.
Yeah, I don't think they'd be upgrading their current planet tech if atmospheric planets wasn't happening in the background.
Some really great discussion here from both sides, kudos to all of you.
It seems to me (reading through all the quotes and posts from the devs about bringing these features in) that the evidence people have presented here have two issue with them.
1) I still haven't seen anything that anyone has brought to my attention that says they will impliment either Space Legs or Atmpspheric Landings. I have been shown plans, long-term goals, and even developer desires. But nothing has yet been presented here that says they WILL be making these things.
2) Plans change, frequently, ESPECIALLY in the games industry. As I said in my original post, intentions and planned routes are constantly being altered and scrapped in the game development process. With the age of these quotes taken into account, it is my personal guess that space legs and atmospheric landings have been scrapped (of course, just a guess). Do you think they'd come out and say "yeah, sorry, due to unforseen circumstances and overly ambitious ideas we have decided to scrap them"?
It seems to me (reading through all the quotes and posts from the devs about bringing these features in) that the evidence people have presented here have two issue with them.
1) I still haven't seen anything that anyone has brought to my attention that says they will impliment either Space Legs or Atmpspheric Landings. I have been shown plans, long-term goals, and even developer desires. But nothing has yet been presented here that says they WILL be making these things.
2) Plans change, frequently, ESPECIALLY in the games industry. As I said in my original post, intentions and planned routes are constantly being altered and scrapped in the game development process. With the age of these quotes taken into account, it is my personal guess that space legs and atmospheric landings have been scrapped (of course, just a guess). Do you think they'd come out and say "yeah, sorry, due to unforseen circumstances and overly ambitious ideas we have decided to scrap them"?
You're correct. They said a lot of things initially but as you rightly point, plans do change. At this time, it's anyone guess if and when those features will make it. Personally, I'm starting to doubt it. With the shift away from big expansions (or the apparent shift) with 2.4, I see only small incremental additions. Sandro did mention in a previous livestream that they still think about atmospheric landing but they are not there yet, they haven't started working on it, so, it's very doubtful it will come, in my personal opinion...
Well, yeah. We're all dreamers. The Kickstarter was definitely just a bunch of people dreaming of a game they imagined would be fun to play.
nd one day some devs stopped the dreaming and just got to work. That's why we have ED and that other game hasn't. #ibelieveitwheniseeit
A
I will reiterate here since the comments are flowing quite a bit, that I understand completely the reasons for the hype and desires to have these features in the game. Heck, I'd LOVE to have them!!!!! My personal irk with the whole thing, is how people seem to treat it as if they've been confirmed for development and a release window has been given. They talk about them like they KNOW they're coming, and it's just a case of when. We have no confirmation, no release window, no evidence to say they're still intending to bring them in, and no indication of the developer's support bar a few (very old) statements about where they would LIKE to be.
I'm not particularly bothered by space legs, I guess it would be nice to have it around space stations & ports, but then like you said it's like adding an entire game.
Atmospheric landings on the other hand I definitely want! It's part of exploring space to be able to explore all planets (bar the ones that would fry you, crush you, or pancake you!
). Also, although in a very basic form, FE & FFE had atmos landings.
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it would add a whole new dimension to the game, how is this adding 'very little to gameplay'???? i agree it's a big design challenge, also high risk. wouldn't recommend (in general, and even less at this point, after horizons).
that's because your expectations are that astronomical. atmo landings could be much less and still valuable: atmo flight + some discrete variety in landscape would definitely be well received. there are rumors about gas giants.
in general, i don't really understand your question. people just wants stuff, it's legit.
I've actually heard the devs confirm that both of these features will definitely be coming, not within the next year, but at some point. I just read something about them recently actually too, sorry, can't say where. But either way, it doesn't really matter because it seems the crux of your concern is the ability for FD to do these things. I'm not a game developer, but I do believe they can be done. FD is a larger company that you may know, they also make planet coaster, and just released some trailers for Jurassic world evolution. They're growing larger too, if you look at FD's stock price over the last year, they've really grown. Now remember that FD have said ED is planned as a 10 year + of development, so yes, they have the time, and the resources to do both of these things. Honestly, I would be surprised if they weren't already in development in at least some rough form or another.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
I don't think very many people believe it's a certainty, that a release window is stated, etc. Heck FD have tried to tamp down expectations themselves without actually saying 'no, this isn't happening.' FD would like to do these things by their own admission, but they've also been up front that these are *big* additions to the game and are a ways out yet, if they get done at all.
Humans being how we are, though, love to dream big and imagine what could be. David and the design team obviously share similar ambissions for the game else they wouldn't have brought up this stuff during KS.
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The basic premise is to create a simulation of the milky way.
All planet types would be the main goal,including earth likes,no matter how challenging.
The year off serious development surely points to 2019 being a good bet on something truly significant.
All planet types would be the main goal,including earth likes,no matter how challenging.
The year off serious development surely points to 2019 being a good bet on something truly significant.
That whole "It's a monumental task!!!!" argument is .
Hello Games did space legs, space flight, and atmo planets with 15 people in 3 years (arguably 4 if you count the year's worth of updates after the initial release). Not only that, they added multiple land vehicles, large carriers, and the shell of multiplayer in that time frame as well. Granted their subsystems are designed to be more "arcade like", but their systems for planet, atmosphere, flora, and fauna procedural generation are no doubt just as complex as the current procedural generation pieces of ED.
I bought No Man's Sky on the day of its release and have occasionally poked around and checked out new features after each major update. It's not my cup of coffee, but I do respect what they have done and admire what they accomplished with the limited resources at their disposal. Frankly, if I were running the show on the ED team, compared to Hello Games, I would feel embarrassed at the state of ED give the amount of resources and time dedicated to the game vs. its current state (That is if we're being told the truth about these dedicated resources). The game has literally been in development for 5 years! In fact, I'd push to buy Hello Games, or at the very least, steal their developers!
If the features of this post's topic get cut from a game with 100 people working on it and what we have currently is truly all that's been worked on over the last 5 years of development, there is only one logical explanation. The ROI of these features is not worth it to DB or the board. After all, this is a publicly traded company. I'd rather have a dozen cheap artists working on creating new vanity items that are selling well between $2 to $12 a pop rather than 50 highly paid, highly skilled game developers adding new features that might sell well for $15 - $30 a pop. This isn't just a passion project, it's part of a business. They are in it to make money and DB and all of FDev have to answer to the shareholders and their board.
Hello Games did space legs, space flight, and atmo planets with 15 people in 3 years (arguably 4 if you count the year's worth of updates after the initial release). Not only that, they added multiple land vehicles, large carriers, and the shell of multiplayer in that time frame as well. Granted their subsystems are designed to be more "arcade like", but their systems for planet, atmosphere, flora, and fauna procedural generation are no doubt just as complex as the current procedural generation pieces of ED.
I bought No Man's Sky on the day of its release and have occasionally poked around and checked out new features after each major update. It's not my cup of coffee, but I do respect what they have done and admire what they accomplished with the limited resources at their disposal. Frankly, if I were running the show on the ED team, compared to Hello Games, I would feel embarrassed at the state of ED give the amount of resources and time dedicated to the game vs. its current state (That is if we're being told the truth about these dedicated resources). The game has literally been in development for 5 years! In fact, I'd push to buy Hello Games, or at the very least, steal their developers!
If the features of this post's topic get cut from a game with 100 people working on it and what we have currently is truly all that's been worked on over the last 5 years of development, there is only one logical explanation. The ROI of these features is not worth it to DB or the board. After all, this is a publicly traded company. I'd rather have a dozen cheap artists working on creating new vanity items that are selling well between $2 to $12 a pop rather than 50 highly paid, highly skilled game developers adding new features that might sell well for $15 - $30 a pop. This isn't just a passion project, it's part of a business. They are in it to make money and DB and all of FDev have to answer to the shareholders and their board.
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Okay, let's say space legs was brought in. You can walk around the ships and stations, maybe talk to people to get missions and such or see your own cargo bay. Woo! Awesome!... Now what?.... What does it actually ADD to the game? It'll be cool for a while, but it would be a novelty and nothing more. The only way it could add to the game would be if it came with its own mechanics and features, at which point you're creating a game within a game (and probably a low quality one at that).
You really can't imagine anything else than wander around aimlessly doing nothing?
Players building up expectations to unrealistic levels, typically results in disappointment.
Legs needs to be done carefully. First, there are umpteen interiors that have to be done. Just getting the ship interiors would be a lot of work. Then you have stations, orbitals (which are kilometers long), then onto planet and moon bases. Once you can walk around and see pretty backgrounds, you'll want to do something. Converse and interact with single players & groups, talk to NPC's for leads on rare materials, modules or artifacts, hire NPC's, missions, buy / sell things, maybe even fight in certain areas (although I'm hoping the walking areas are weapon free zones for the most part.)
Once atmo planets are here you'll be interacting with wildlife, expansive jungles, deserts, tundra, ice sheets, etc. Once ELP's are here, you'll have cities, skyscrapers, space ports, etc. And everyone will be demanding content for those spaces. That's not an easy, or quick, thing to do. Walking around is a nice thing to do, but ten seconds after you have that ability, you'll want to do something. During Kickstarter David B mentioned dinosaur hunting as a possible activity. Just that will take a half year of programming to pull it off.
Now that being said, if anyone can pull it off, Frontier can. It won't be this year, it might happen next year after Beyond, but there's a crap ton of work to do.