Why do Developers dont give a single notice or interaction on PvP Subforum?

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I mean seriously the PvP subforum has 40+ posts and even more and NONE has Developer interaction.[mad]

Here's proof.

https://i.imgur.com/eE2Jzqh.png

So is the PvP Sub-forum just a trashcan? to make the dangerous discussion more PvEing?!

Because we are LESS important Consumers than the other part of the forums?
I don't think the devs are ignoring the PvP section, it's just that none of the devs have ever had a particularly strong interest in the PvP aspects of their game. You'll recall that they never posted in any PvP thread in Dangerous Discussions either. Unless they have something combat or PvP related that needs testing or bug fixing we won't be hearing from them.

That being said, it would however be nice to see a community rep like Zac Antonaci drop by every now and then and comment on a good suggestion. Like Chongo's excellent idea about a PvP hub area of two stations at either end of an extra wide asteroid field, for example:

Were FD to create a hub as I've laid out, the majority of 'murderhobos' would migrate there. They'd still head to CG's when they were combat oriented or interesting in the slightest, but the inbetween would certainly be at this hub. Those that are easily discouraged after a loss would likely return to picking off keelbacks at CGs, but they are not the majority. The dynamic I would predict would initially be prearranged fights. SDC, RNG, AA, RSM, NMDS, RoA, 51th, and the horde wings and individuals at GCI would likely spearhead this - I would assume an initial population of 150. And after the initial 4v4 to 20v20's got some momentum in a dedicated ingame hub with natural features to enhance combat, the larger RP style pvp'ers a la LL or ze germans et al would likely join the fray and it would migrate from prearranged to a steady game of dominating the instance between the two stations. PVP'ers and their wings would camp out the asteroid fields and engage in assaults where sides would naturally migrate to one station or the other. It would almost certainly devolve into one sided dominance as the community is fairly tight and might team up at times, but outsiders would be drawn into the communication chains available through discord, and just as it occurs at CGs, the pvp community would acknowledge the onesidedness of any situation and organize the largest available XvX they could. Minigames would present themselves, just as they have for years now with organizations like GCI coordinating events: capture the flag style events, protect the trade ship, king of the instance, thunderdomes, etc. But it'd be in a veritable playground with that many natural features to hide or engage in. And again, you can't reduce this to a 'well if you want a playground use cqc'. CQC does not evolve with the game and it was designed to be a limited representation of the available game assets. Game over, cqc is dead. I don't know how many brain cells are needed to comprehend this.

Bottom line is, I've coordinated hundreds of wingfights that you say pvp'ers don't really like. I can direct you to the footage. I know exactly what I am talking about. I've coordinated these events and thought about the competitive mechanics to the point of having refs at a canyon lip using force shell to keep people in the challenging constraints of the natural terrain features. We know how to make things fair and fun and there is a substantial community that engages in prearranged fair and competitive fights. So yes, there is a population that would not only utilize an idea like this, but they would enhance the game and foster a larger community were the environment setup correctly. As it is, the 'hub' becomes CGs, and they're usually really lacking in one significant way: we are forced to poke around the system to find something outside open space. Sometimes there are rings to work with, sometimes decent canyons. But there's no intuitive 'everyone goes here' outside what we can communicate to each other over discord. And it changes every week. And so we show up, try to find something to pitch at everyone, and then have to start asking around for people to log in, or stop their grinding, get their 40 minute transfer done, meet up at whatever coordinates, and hopefully we can get enough people logged on at the right time for a 4v4. So it just devolves quickly into the same old routine with no natural gravity attracting this subgroup of players. It takes a lot of work just to try and contrive something each session, and people burn out. The fact that I have to explain how a natural hub enhances gameplay is frankly surprising.

2 stations. Perma-anarchy. Very wide asteroid field between them, whatever the engine can handle. Throw a couple planets in the system with terrain features, decent canyons is enough. This will create a hub. It will enhance the quality of pvp in this game. It will reduce the number of bored people looking for fights at CGs. Sure, it won't eliminate the lowest rung of hobo - but it definitely will change that landscape for the better.

^ Hint, hint :)
 
I just looked at the exploration page for the first time in over a year. I'm not sure I'd call the numbers on that page "thriving" AA. Segregating everybody into these separate niches might be easy from a moderation standpoint, but from mine it has the net result of limiting the conversation because most people aren't going to comb through every individual subsection looking for something worth reading or commenting on.

Cough cough, what about the DECE and DWE2 threads?
 
That being said, it would however be nice to see a community rep like Zac Antonaci drop by every now and then and comment on a good suggestion. Like Chongo's excellent idea about a PvP hub area of two stations at either end of an extra wide asteroid field, for example:

The problem with 'commenting on a good suggestion' is that whatever is said, no matter how noncommittal, is going to be taken as a promise and provide more fuel for the malcontents and special snowflakes to use in abusing said Dev, or the team as a whole. They've been down that road already, and the lesson learned was that you can't be misquoted and/or abused over something if you don't say it.

They may agree that something is a good idea, and that they'll bring it up or pass it along. But the minute they do that, it's immediately taken as gospel truth that it belongs in the game, and will be in the game, and the rants, flames and rampant speculation on which conspiracy is responsible for it not happening commences at full throttle.

I don't blame them one bit for keeping quiet.
 
The problem with 'commenting on a good suggestion' is that whatever is said, no matter how noncommittal, is going to be taken as a promise and provide more fuel for the malcontents and special snowflakes to use in abusing said Dev, or the team as a whole. They've been down that road already, and the lesson learned was that you can't be misquoted and/or abused over something if you don't say it.

They may agree that something is a good idea, and that they'll bring it up or pass it along. But the minute they do that, it's immediately taken as gospel truth that it belongs in the game, and will be in the game, and the rants, flames and rampant speculation on which conspiracy is responsible for it not happening commences at full throttle.

I don't blame them one bit for keeping quiet.
Leaves one with no choice then but to peddle a good idea around the forums like Stigbob on extra strong coffee :D
 
I would ask the PVP community - what positive contributions have you made to make the Elite Universe a more interesting place for everyone?

as a mere observer i could say:

- test and measure all (or most of) the bizarre weapons combinations, shield resistances, etc
- pretty thorough analysis of effects in different scenarios (1vs1, wings ...)
- signal all which were broken / problematic
- submit bug reports / track bug status ... to no end

and last but not least

- about 95% of all written documentation and reference material about combat mechanics

all of which would actually be frontier's job imo. :)
 
I would ask the PVP community - what positive contributions have you made to make the Elite Universe a more interesting place for everyone?

- Introduced 100km speed limits in stations
- Had heat weapons nerfed because they were OP
- Had healing beams nerfed as they made you invulnerable
- Introduced diminishing returns on Shield Boosters
- Introduced the ship weighting system for tournaments
- Identify the best methods of farming materials for engineers
- Identify min/max engineer rolls.
- The first groups of people to kill Thargorids
- Contribute to the CGI for training new people how to actually fly ships properly, instead of shield stacking turret mode which is as immersive as a facebook game.

The argument could be: What has PvE done for the game? Following Elites pre-written storyline doesn't count.

The PvP community has had tangible results put into the game for balance, benefiting everyone in the entire game. They steered the changes in the game that were an issue.

You never saw a PvPer complaining about 'making too much money' because PvP is expensive.


You seem to be mixing up the PvP community with those ganking weak players. I own a WRX, that doesn't make me a boy racer. I PvP in game sometimes, that doesn't mean I go out ganking people who I know have no chance of winning.
 
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I just looked at the exploration page for the first time in over a year. I'm not sure I'd call the numbers on that page "thriving" AA. Segregating everybody into these separate niches might be easy from a moderation standpoint, but from mine it has the net result of limiting the conversation because most people aren't going to comb through every individual subsection looking for something worth reading or commenting on.

True, only the ones they are particularly interested in... oh wait.
 
- Introduced 100km speed limits in stations
- Had heat weapons nerfed because they were OP
- Had healing beams nerfed as they made you invulnerable
- Introduced diminishing returns on Shield Boosters
- Introduced the ship weighting system for tournaments
- Identify the best methods of farming materials for engineers
- Identify min/max engineer rolls.
- The first groups of people to kill Thargorids
- Contribute to the CGI for training new people how to actually fly ships properly, instead of shield stacking turret mode which is as immersive as a facebook game.

The argument could be: What has PvE done for the game? Following Elites pre-written storyline doesn't count.

The PvP community has had tangible results put into the game for balance, benefiting everyone in the entire game. They steered the changes in the game that were an issue.

Well hells bells, the PvE community better quit playing. It's pretty obvious they've had zero impact on the game. Filthy leeches riding on the coattails of PvPers, that lot.

/s
 
Help help I'm being repressed!



Engineers, VR, newcommers, powerplay, ships, modes of Elite and CQC are all the same with zero dev posts on the FP
Mac has one thread with dev post on the FP
Xbox, PS4, Aliens & Horizons have 2 threads with dev posts on the FP



Tl:dr - PvP is not special, don't feel victimised. Dangerous Discussion is the odd one out. To equate PvP with the main sub-forum for everything is not something you can compare.

Comparing it to the other front pages it's about the same. I'd also agree with the somewhat crude but accurate post above that the Devs are not experts in PvP and the players probably know more about META and other things than them and are in a better place to answer things. Also many of the threads I can see are the op with a video pretty much saying: "look how good I am". Not something the Devs can really put a comment to without somebody being upset that their video didn't get a dev comment.

There's your answer OP not really sure what you want
 
It's funny how people see those who don't PvP much and say, 'I contribute more to Elite than you do!'.

In PvE we: create optimum money making routes and locations, apply our knowledge of BGS to reverse lockdowns/give stability to LD prone systems, put together theories to try to explain much of the lore in a way that is easy to read, find new locations of bizzare planetary phenomena, send SRVs into orbit, map the most remote parts of the galaxy, find the bugs in Stellar Forge, find the bugs in the hidden locales, find new fastest routes to wherever, etc.

We do quite a bit for Elite! The PvP crowd does quite a bit as well. The thing is; our two crowds share the same space, ideals, goals, etc. We couldn't have Salomé's run without both groups involved!

In essence, PvP adds danger and unprecedented amounts of uncertainty to an already dangerous galaxy.

However, PvP is an ever-shifting quagmire of self-regulation and extremes. So, yes, Frontier should give a bit more feedback to the PvP crowd.

Though it would seem that any attempt at changing the 'meta' or speaking with this crowd will come with a huge amount of salt and abuse.

Think on this, if Frontier haven't posted any reply to the PvP group due to 'bugs'; at what point does it become less about the tools given to PvP and more about those who use them?
 
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Brett C

Frontier
Simply put, PVP forum was made for general PVP discourse, PVP information, ship builds, and so forth. Granted, over time, i feel it'll turn into a LAWL NEWB GIT GUD, and will invalidate the forums existence. Which would be quite unfortunate, so i hope that won't happen.

The PVP forum was added due to it surpassing a threshold i set a few years back on activity based per keywords/hot-word matching, in addition to observations. It worked out nicely due to the planned forum revamp as well.

Do we read threads in those sub-forums? Yes, very much so yes, day in and out.
Will we (the devs or CM team, or what have you in mind) reply to said threads? No, probably not.
 
Its our own private corner to get ignored in.

Unless you make a thread about a certain something.


I feel favorites are played.

Anyway. I'm glad we have our own area. We can discuss our doings without the thread being blown to oblivion by a certain group.
 
Simply put, PVP forum was made for general PVP discourse, PVP information, ship builds, and so forth. Granted, over time, i feel it'll turn into a LAWL NEWB GIT GUD, and will invalidate the forums existence. Which would be quite unfortunate, so i hope that won't happen.

The PVP forum was added due to it surpassing a threshold i set a few years back on activity based per keywords/hot-word matching, in addition to observations. It worked out nicely due to the planned forum revamp as well.

Do we read threads in those sub-forums? Yes, very much so yes, day in and out.
Will we (the devs or CM team, or what have you in mind) reply to said threads? No, probably not.

Whats the end goal for PVP though? How are we going to make it meaningful? Do you think its fine we just fight each other and everything else is labelled griefing?

How about fighting over territory? Would you not agree player factions within the BGS and Powerplay would be good for this?

Its really frustrating to have a thread like hotel california exist for 5 years. There is obviously a call for this stuff. The thread wouldn't have been ongoing for no reason.

A very large portion of this community have been asking for these changes long before player factions. And now we are adding guilds to this too? Its about to get worse my dude.

Can you answer anything at all as far as the plans for this? Because its been left hanging for so long. Its pretty unfair to a lot of people on both ends of the spectrum. Unbalanced to boot.
 
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Its our own private corner to get ignored in.

Unless you make a thread about a certain something.


I feel favorites are played.

Anyway. I'm glad we have our own area. We can discuss our doings without the thread being blown to oblivion by a certain group.

Read the Dev post above yours, PvP is not being ignored; neither is the stuff happening in the sub-forum. If anything Combat and PvP has been the number one focus for awhile. Multicrew, SLFs, New Weapons, C&P, Wings, etc have all been most helpful to the Combat/PvP crowd. So saying PvP CMDRs are being ignored is quite silly.
 
Read the Dev post above yours, PvP is not being ignored; neither is the stuff happening in the sub-forum. If anything Combat and PvP has been the number one focus for awhile. Multicrew, SLFs, New Weapons, C&P, Wings, etc have all been most helpful to the Combat/PvP crowd. So saying PvP CMDRs are being ignored is quite silly.

Uh... What?
Ok so... You clearly don't PvP because the ONLY time Multicrew gets used is when we are screwing around.
Players carry SLF out of necessity, in some cases it's going to determine who wins.
What new weapons were geared specifically for PvP? They were added to the game for everyone.
Wings are used outside of PvP. Again... What?

PvP is a make your own fun scenario as very little in the game supports it directly.

Maybe it's time the Devs or CM got involved in PvP outside of getting ganked every time they hit open.
 
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