General / Off-Topic Help me Professor Yaffle. You're my only hope to explain the Manafort Indictment

[Frank]

How will this play out if Trump is also picking and changing judges currently? Apparently he has done more of that than most Presidents since his inauguration? Also he has a decent slice of the American public fully behind him, and this kind of stuff is not something they care about/believe etc.

So bloody nose time or more serious?

That is something I've wondered about as well. When Nixon resigned in disgrace he still had a 25% approval rating. Imagine 25% of Trump supporters who think their glorious leader is being dragged to jail under trumped* up charges. How will they react? And remember the most rabid of Trump supporters are usually the ones with most gunz.





*just assume all puns from me are intended, even when they're not

 

[FuzzySpider]

Mueller got a judge to waiver Manafort's attorney-client privilege under crime-fraud exception. (PDF)

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_OP_REDACTED FOR UNSEALING_20171030.pdf

Hard to overstate how big this is. Attorney-client privilege is a bedrock of constitutional rights. He is in a massive mound of ploppy right now. Mueller is obviously pilling on pressure in an effort to get him to talk about what he knows. And as Seth Abramson said, Manafort is the weak link. No family connections and no real belief in Trump, just an opportunist who was greedy.

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

My simple understanding:

A bloke got arrested for having a different job a couple of years ago. Recently he worked for the fool with his finger on the big red button. Hence it must be his fault.

Other than that I have no clue what is going on other than it is all over our news... Time was when we had interesting scandals in our own house of commons but I guess all the dominatrix's near Westminster have gone out of business.

 

[FuzzySpider]

A bloke got arrested for having a different job a couple of years ago.

And laundering $75 million. And conspiracy against the United States. And being the agent of a foreign principal. And making false and misleading statements.

And that's all we know about.

Recently he worked for the fool with his finger on the big red button. Hence it must be his fault.

And met with Russian agents to get illegally obtained information on the fools political adversaries in an attempt to subvert the democratic process, while in the company of the fools son and son in law and working as the fools campaign manager.

 

[dayrth]

The main charge is "conspiracy against the United States", that is legal mumbo jumbo for treason.
The conspiracy part of it also means there will be more charges to follow, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a conspiracy...

Not quite the same thing as treason. Treason is betraying your country to a foreign power in order to kill or overthrow your monarch or government. If there was vote rigging involved then it may well have been treason, but that is not what either are being charged with (for now at least).

 

[dannysquid]

It seems pretty clear that it was a swap of pro-Russian foreign policy for dirt on Clinton. But will they be able to prove Trump knew about it? I guess Trump will try to fire or otherwise compromise Mueller. He's got nothing to lose really. Whatever he does it won't change the opinion of his supporters (who believe what they're told) or his opponents (who don't really need more evidence to hate him).

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

And laundering $75 million. And conspiracy against the United States. And being the agent of a foreign principal. And making false and misleading statements.

And that's all we know about.



And met with Russian agents to get illegally obtained information on the fools political adversaries in an attempt to subvert the democratic process, while in the company of the fools son and son in law and working as the fools campaign manager.

Thanks for filling in the blanks

 

[FuzzySpider]

It seems pretty clear that it was a swap of pro-Russian foreign policy for dirt on Clinton. But will they be able to prove Trump knew about it? I guess Trump will try to fire or otherwise compromise Mueller. He's got nothing to lose really.

He does have lots to lose by doing that. Not only would that be, yet again, a clear admission of complicity, but firing Mueller won't actually stop the investigation. This is the same investigation that Comey was running, Mueller was appointed to take it over (massive irony in that firing Comey Trump turned the spotlight on himself). There are some extremely influential and high level federal lawyers and prosecutors involved. Manafort and Gates for example, are being prosecuted by a man called Andrew Weissmann. There is no shutting this down without some sort of Stalinesque coup over the justice department.

EDIT: For those interested...

https://www.lawfareblog.com/if-trump-fires-mueller-or-orders-his-firing

https://www.lawfareblog.com/trumps-potential-interference-muellers-investigation-what-watch

Whatever he does it won't change the opinion of his supporters (who believe what they're told) or his opponents (who don't really need more evidence to hate him).

A lot of people who voted for Trump are turning against him. It's cynical to dismiss them all as partisan zealots (I know you didn't do that, but that's the characterization many have). A lot of people were simply disgusted by the system and voted for a candidate they felt would offer real change, and are horrified to discover that this candidate is criminally corrupt. His approval ratings have dropped faster than any president in history.

 

[dayrth]

It's recovering nicely. I just realised how bad the reason I strained my thumb sounds when it's written down... so that's why I'm telling you...

I opened too many screwtop bottles of wine too quickly in rapid succession.

Most of my injuries result from falling off horses. Yours sounds like a far more sensible reason

 

[Adept]

Mueller got a judge to waiver Manafort's attorney-client privilege under crime-fraud exception. (PDF)

http://www.dcd.uscourts.gov/sites/dcd/files/17-mc-2336_MEM_OP_REDACTED FOR UNSEALING_20171030.pdf

Hard to overstate how big this is. Attorney-client privilege is a bedrock of constitutional rights. He is in a massive mound of ploppy right now. Mueller is obviously pilling on pressure in an effort to get him to talk about what he knows. And as Seth Abramson said, Manafort is the weak link. No family connections and no real belief in Trump, just an opportunist who was greedy.

There is no reason for Manafort to play good soldier and go to jail for Trump. If he gets to keep his freedom and much of his wealth, I believe he'll sing.

My simple understanding:

A bloke got arrested for having a different job a couple of years ago. Recently he worked for the fool with his finger on the big red button. Hence it must be his fault.

Other than that I have no clue what is going on other than it is all over our news... Time was when we had interesting scandals in our own house of commons but I guess all the dominatrix's near Westminster have gone out of business.

Why are you trying to downplay it? Is a "right wing" president in the US so important to you, regardless of whether he got there by virtue of lies and Russian meddling?

 

[Zieman]

Alas, I'm afraid the carrot parrot (Donnie the Trumpet if it was unclear to someone) will walk away from this unscatched.
Maybe a couple of his low-level cronies get a slap-on-wrist sentences, but he brushes all off like dandruff and the idiocracy will still reign supreme.

 

[Adept]

Alas, I'm afraid the carrot parrot (Donnie the Trumpet if it was unclear to someone) will walk away from this unscatched.
Maybe a couple of his low-level cronies get a slap-on-wrist sentences, but he brushes all off like dandruff and the idiocracy will still reign supreme.

That would be pretty grim, but I don't see any reason for such hopelessness just yet.

 

[MarktJones]

There is no reason for Manafort to play good soldier and go to jail for Trump. If he gets to keep his freedom and much of his wealth, I believe he'll sing.

Isn't Manafort 68? If convicted he'll die in prison. That'll weigh on him.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Isn't Manafort 68? If convicted he'll die in prison. That'll weigh on him.

Gates is actually more likely to flip. He has a young family. That's some powerful leverage.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Not quite the same thing as treason. Treason is betraying your country to a foreign power in order to kill or overthrow your monarch or government. If there was vote rigging involved then it may well have been treason, but that is not what either are being charged with (for now at least).

This is exactly what has transpired. Treason.
The replacement of a legitimate admin, with an illegitimate one, beholden to a foreign power, and consisting of its servants.

Here is the Kremlin, commenting on this US internal legal matter.

At least the Kremlin isn't desperately trying to blame it on Hillary, or talk about cheeseburger emojis. One has to acknowledge the self respect.

After all, the purpose of cutouts is just for the purpose of deniability. A concept truly lacking on the US admin's side.

 

[Frank]

What happens when Trump is removed from office? Will they kick Betsy Devos out as well? And what about Trump's gutting of the EPA? It looks like it'll take a bit of time to clear up the aftermath of Trump's reign.

 

[Adept]

What happens when Trump is removed from office? Will they kick Betsy Devos out as well? And what about Trump's gutting of the EPA? It looks like it'll take a bit of time to clear up the aftermath of Trump's reign.

The worst case if president Pence rolling back civil liberties and environmental protections for two terms. Handmaid's Tale anyone?

 

[6xes]

That old line..
"Thou doth protest too much" is all too familiar with the Trump/collusion/Russia accusers

Isnt it ironic how much of everything regarding Russian/collusion has been flipped on its head... and the Mueller investigation is nothing but a time wasting exercise.. keeping the uninformed public wanting to be fed the next lie!!
Mueller will evenutally expose himself and his cohorts and be caught in a lie!!

If people havent already figured out who the real conspirators are and who colluded with Russia.. then Uranium one has no bearing on anything

a year on... and still nothing, no evidence of Trump Russian collusion.. this is not suprising
people still hold onto the hope of a Trump Russian Collusion lol.. Its the great hope of the Fallen!! Hah!!

and i never mentioned who paid for the Trump Dossier :x

 

[6xes]

Im actually amazed the individuals who consistently believe President Trump is guilty of Collusion...still believe it even after the exposure of the Uranium one... and the Trump Dossier lies

will there be no end to this Hatred within people to wish the worst of a president who has been put into power by the Very people of America....not by some imaginary Russian secret hackers or influential people within Russia

some people have a perception that extends only as far as there nose!! For they think they smell blood in the water... and like Sharks will circle round and round... only to realise.. that their own fleshly bodies have become exposed and the very life-force that keeps them circling is draining.. and eventually they will be stinking rotten corpses that will float to the surface and the light of the Sun will expose their wretchedness

 

[Frank]

Hi 6xes.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a purely hypothetical question. Let's say this Mueller investigation leads to the impeachment of Donald Trump. How will you take the news? Will you accept the findings of the legal system or will you take to the streets in protest?