the negative community narrative and the confirmation bias effect.

[-VR- Max Factor]

Anybody remember the official PowerPlay suggestion megathreads, started to allow players to give their suggestions on how to improve PowerPlay?

Feedback Wanted! #1: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=163495 , 446 replies
Feedback Wanted! #2: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168230 , 336 replies
Feedback Wanted! #3: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/169489-Powerplay-Ideas-from-the-devs-Feedback-wanted!-3 , 616 replies
Collusion Piracy: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=237773 , 644 replies.
Preparation Feedback: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=239455 , 291 replies

All of these were official threads, started by Frontier themselves over the past two years, all of them asking for input from the player base. From the reply counts, it's easy to see that they had plenty of people interested in PowerPlay in spite of all of its problems, and offering some really solid feedback.

More than that, those threads reinvigorated players, for a brief time making even some "negative" elements stand up and cheer for Frontier's efforts to listen to the community.

Nothing came of all that effort.

Nothing.

Intentional or not, it did have the effect that Mojonaut described of providing a redirect for an unhappy player base. "Hey look, we're listening!" "Post your ideas here!" with here being in their own dedicated forum, allowing the forum to exhaust its efforts in a harmless way.

It gave them an out. For the longest time, any criticism could be responded to with a hearty, "See? Frontier is listening! Just wait until the update!"

Addressing the OP, who's tired of all the negativity, this why there is a "negative community narrative." It's not confirmation bias. It's a response to an ongoing pattern of behavior. A company can say whatever they want about their goals, ask for feedback and get it, post about "coming in QX, 2018" until the thargoids come home. Doesn't mean jack unless they deliver on it.

Meanwhile, forget "Beyond" I'm still waitin' on those PowerPlay improvements from 2015...

The issue here is that it is a matter of priority. A working crime and punishment system is needed as it effect everyone in the game. Enginners being looked at again is needed and it effects most people that have horizons and is some cases those that don't. Trading improvements that are coming in Q1 probably effect far more commanders then powerplay does. Galnet Audio is a great way to get the current events to people while they are flying their ships, so useful for most poeple in game. Q4 updates are also much needed for the game too.

Now, I do want a better powerplay system too. The reason I have not engaged much is because some of it is needlessly complex, and the gameplay parts of it a stupidly simple. It also feels like a seperate game tacked on top the rest of the game, when it should be integrated in to the BGS in a more deep and meaningful way. And we need a few more powers too. At least another one for the Alliance.

 

[Sylveria]

The issue here is that it is a matter of priority. A working crime and punishment system is needed as it effect everyone in the game.

ABSOLUTELY. Has been since release. It's pretty clear that "self-policing" and the current bounty system isn't and hasn't been working since release.

Yet, most of the murderhobos haven't quite figured out why Open is so devoid of "meaningful" gameplay.

Hmm... lemme think...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

ABSOLUTELY. Has been since release. It's pretty clear that "self-policing" and the current bounty system isn't and hasn't been working since release.

Yet, most of the murderhobos haven't quite figured out why Open is so devoid of "meaningful" gameplay.

Hmm... lemme think...

With the advent of engineers the whole thing of crime and punishment is a moot exercise anyway.

 

[ElectricZ]

The issue here is that it is a matter of priority.

No, no no.... That's definitely NOT the issue. My point in bringing up PowerPlay wasn't that some aspect of the game needs prioritization over any others, but that there was a full-court press by the developers themselves to solicit suggestions and feedback from an increasingly frustrated player base over the span of quite a long time.

Frontier saw players were unhappy, and made a big spectacle of asking the playerbase for opinions... The players obliged with hundreds of pages of ideas and discussion. Go back and scan those threads. People were excited and hopeful that Frontier was making the effort.

And nothing happened.

As of two years, literally nothing as a result. Players kept updating the threads long after those who started them went silent.

The issue isn't priority. The issue is setting expectations and delivering on what's promised. Again, anybody can set up dedicated forums and talk about what improvements they'd like to make all day long. The question is will they deliver on them.

 

[Genus]

The question is will they deliver on them.

The amount of times Sandro said "no promises no timescale" in the Lave Radio interview on Tuesday was concerning.

He also called Elite "this stupid game" twice.



There's a reason for that...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

No, no no.... That's definitely NOT the issue. My point in bringing up PowerPlay wasn't that some aspect of the game needs prioritization over any others, but that there was a full-court press by the developers themselves to solicit suggestions and feedback from an increasingly frustrated player base over the span of quite a long time.

But they never gave you a timescale for it did they. What we are getting now is stuff that is coming in Q1 of next year.

Frontier saw players were unhappy, and made a big spectacle of asking the playerbase for opinions... The players obliged with hundreds of pages of ideas and discussion. Go back and scan those threads. People were excited and hopeful that Frontier was making the effort.

I didn't see it as a big spectacle. They just asked for some feedback

And nothing happened.

As of two years, literally nothing as a result. Players kept updating the threads long after those who started them went silent.

Probably because the changes people want is probably a huge amount of work and they have other priorities.

The issue isn't priority. The issue is setting expectations and delivering on what's promised. Again, anybody can set up dedicated forums and talk about what improvements they'd like to make all day long. The question is will they deliver on them.

They never promised anything, and they never said that they will be 100% doing it. It was all if we can and when we can. So I have to disagree with you. It is all about priorities. Sandro just said in the last stream that there is lots he would like to do for powerplay, but is just not allowed to at the moment, they have other stuff to do which Fdev deem is more important.

 

[jasonbarron]

Probably because the changes people want is probably a huge amount of work and they have other priorities.




They never promised anything, and they never said that they will be 100% doing it. It was all if we can and when we can. So I have to disagree with you. It is all about priorities. Sandro just said in the last stream that there is lots he would like to do for powerplay, but is just not allowed to at the moment, they have other stuff to do which Fdev deem is more important.

Yep, I fully agree with you: The reason Fdev has allowed ED to stagnate is because of "other priorities." Too bad those "other priorities" are Planet Coaster & Jurassic World.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yep, I fully agree with you: The reason Fdev has allowed ED to stagnate is because of "other priorities." Too bad those "other priorities" are Planet Coaster & Jurassic World.

Nope. Different teams and this is easy to find out by looking at the credits of both ED and Planet Coaster. There has been plenty of development in ED. They have just developed the wrong areas. Stuff like multicrew in my view shouldn't even be a thing until we can get out of our pilot seats. Powerplay is something that could have been great, but they rushed it out. It should have been the last update in the first season, giving them more time to make it better.

Horizons updates should have concentrated on planetary gameplay far more tham what it did. So I disagree that ED has been left to stagnate, they just developed the wrong parts of the game.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Yep, I fully agree with you: The reason Fdev has allowed ED to stagnate is because of "other priorities." Too bad those "other priorities" are Planet Coaster & Jurassic World.

[citation needed]

 

[iFred]

Yep, I fully agree with you: The reason Fdev has allowed ED to stagnate is because of "other priorities." Too bad those "other priorities" are Planet Coaster & Jurassic World.

... founded with our paintjobs.

 

[Sylveria]

... founded with our paintjobs.

Not to be repetitive but...

[citation needed]

 

[Kubicide]

With the advent of engineers the whole thing of crime and punishment is a moot exercise anyway.

Yep, agree. IMO C&P won't do anything to improve open or simply add little to the game. If anything I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE getting hit with a negative experience from the changes!

FDev needs to focus on 1. balance, and 2. greatly expanding gameplay content. Without fixing the huge imbalances all the effort into a new ship-crime-penalty system will be wasted. Balance and content fixes would also go a long way to improve menu logging and combat logging which are also very much symptoms of bad game design.

 

[Genus]

[citation needed]

[citation needed]

Common sense, Shirley.

Length of time between iterations, not only a failure to clear the backlog for ED after three years, but not even crystallising the priorities of one whilst the other two games get announced released and updated in a comparatively accelerated fashion.

This line I keep hearing of "no promises, no timescale" is infuriating for someone who just wishes to see the game progress, after offering up cold hard cash for that very premise.

It's pretty clear there's a resource issue. The reasons for that remain unclear due to terrible communication, which is fine for the first year as you have to give the benefit of the doubt and give them time to put things in place. But that has not improved so can it not be assumed that ED is the lower priority?

Further to that assumption, it would require inside knowledge of team structures and an affirmation of whether resource has been pulled from ED to work on the other two projects.

This much we do not know.

It would be fascinating to get some information on this. And if those assuptions are incorrect, an explanation as to why. It would go a long way to satiating the appetite of some toward intentions.

 

[jasonbarron]

Nope. Different teams and this is easy to find out by looking at the credits of both ED and Planet Coaster. There has been plenty of development in ED. They have just developed the wrong areas. Stuff like multicrew in my view shouldn't even be a thing until we can get out of our pilot seats. Powerplay is something that could have been great, but they rushed it out. It should have been the last update in the first season, giving them more time to make it better.

Horizons updates should have concentrated on planetary gameplay far more tham what it did. So I disagree that ED has been left to stagnate, they just developed the wrong parts of the game.

If you really feel like "there's plenty of development on ED" then that draws attention to a fundamentally profound difference of opinion between you and I, because by my lights Fdev has been phoning it in since 2.1. If you're really that tickled with the last 18 months of development then I really don't know what to say, other than anything will make you happy.

[citation needed]

The only citation needed is called common sense. You guys can cast as rosy a glow on things as you like, but in the meantime all I'm seeing is chicken feed and I don't believe for a second it's because they're pouring so many dev resources into the back end of the "ten year plan." Thinking that way has approached Limit Theory forum levels of optimism for some of you.

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

Not to be repetitive but...

[citation needed]

Implying its an extraordinary claim that needs a "citation" - that money given to a corporation would be used by a corporation?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

The only citation needed is called common sense. You guys can cast as rosy a glow on things as you like, but in the meantime all I'm seeing is chicken feed and I don't believe for a second it's because they're pouring so many dev resources into the back end of the "ten year plan." Thinking that way has approached Limit Theory forum levels of optimism for some of you.

[lack of citation noted]

Ok. Get back to me when the plural of 'speculation' is 'data'.

 

[Genus]

Get back to me when the plural of 'speculation' is 'data'.

I think the point is that's exactly what a meaningful proportion of the player base, would like from FD.

Actionable information, would be even better.

This is one of those weird issues, upon which most seem to agree...through different lenses.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I think the point is that's exactly what a meaningful proportion of the player base, would like from FD.

Actionable information, would be even better.

This is one of those weird issues, upon which most seem to agree...through different lenses.

They are under no obligation to tell us who is working on what.

I get that people would like more communication from FDev - heck, I would - but that doesn't mean we get to act like we're on their board of directors.

 

[jasonbarron]

They are under no obligation to tell us who is working on what.

I get that people would like more communication from FDev - heck, I would - but that doesn't mean we get to act like we're on their board of directors.

Communication would be fabulous. I'd prefer results though.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Communication would be fabulous. I'd prefer results though.

Then become a shareholder. A fairly big one. Then​ you get to demand results.