Modes Can we get more players into Open Play?

[verminstar]

Thats great, just shows they have no idea what they are doing and this game will continue to be a mile wide inch deep in content.

Regardless what their presumed ability is, it also shows that PP is not, and never will be PVP content...which sorta destroys yer argument because as you have stated many times, yer issue is not with the players, but with frontier and their design philosophy.

So really, ye dont have a point...yer just ranting or trolling now ^

 

[Rampant]

The threat from other players is incomparable to anyhting else this game throws at you. If open is not the only possible path to undermine/expand it becomes the hardest option and people will opt out and jump to solo rendering the whole PvP encounters meaningless and avoidable, making PP what it is today, another form of grind.

Disingenuous.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, PP actually *does* encourage more meaningful PvP. For those that *want* to PP PvP they can, and will, find opponents from opposing PP powers. Granted, it will be relatively rare, but it will be between 2 players who are both set up for PvP and keen for the PvP activity to occur. This is a fact.


It appears to me that what you may be asking for the soft targets pursuing PP from other Modes to be forced to fly in Open. This isn't "meaningful" PvP. Far from it.
If you got your wish, all that would happen is those soft targets have 3 options:

1. Continue as they are doing hauling PP tokens in their soft ships, but doing this in Open.
2. Change tactic - haul PP tokens in stronger ships. (Perhaps form wings with PvP players' defence fighters.)
3. Quit PP.


Outcomes:

Option 1 is Exceptionally unlikely to be the choice of the soft targets. Unlikely in the extreme. You wouldn't have your soft targets in Open. They'd do something else entirely. so outcome 2 or 3 is where we need to look.

option 2 sounds like a more engaging game and if this is what your aim is, then I applaud your vision for that content. However, I don't share your view that this is even remotely possible. The soft targets aren't going to change into PvP players and use fighters. The PvP players who already inhabit the PP game will still be there, and perhaps they could organise a small amount of wing activity. But it would still be limited to those PvP players that you will already find the way the game architecture is working right now. So no *more* PvP players, and only a small possibility that those already existing PvP PP players will bring the soft targets with them in wings for their protection. It will still be exactly as rare as it is now. You may see a slight increase, but I wouldn't expect PvP PP like this play to double the PvP activity that you see right now. Would you?

Option 3 is entirely probable and possibly the most likely option that the soft targets would take if PP was limited to the Open environment.


That's just my own analysis of the situation. Doesn't make for good reading, I'm afraid, and it does make me pretty unhappy that option 2 wouldn't have much uptake, because it does sound relatively good fun. That said, I wouldn't be encouraged into PP myself.

Would you care to add any thoughts on my analysis?

Yours

Mark H

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Disingenuous.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, PP actually *does* encourage more meaningful PvP. For those that *want* to PP PvP they can, and will, find opponents from opposing PP powers. Granted, it will be relatively rare, but it will be between 2 players who are both set up for PvP and keen for the PvP activity to occur. This is a fact.


It appears to me that what you may be asking for the soft targets pursuing PP from other Modes to be forced to fly in Open. This isn't "meaningful" PvP. Far from it.
If you got your wish, all that would happen is those soft targets have 3 options:

1. Continue as they are doing hauling PP tokens in their soft ships, but doing this in Open.
2. Change tactic - haul PP tokens in stronger ships. (Perhaps form wings with PvP players' defence fighters.)
3. Quit PP.


Outcomes:

Option 1 is Exceptionally unlikely to be the choice of the soft targets. Unlikely in the extreme. You wouldn't have your soft targets in Open. They'd do something else entirely. so outcome 2 or 3 is where we need to look.

option 2 sounds like a more engaging game and if this is what your aim is, then I applaud your vision for that content. However, I don't share your view that this is even remotely possible. The soft targets aren't going to change into PvP players and use fighters. The PvP players who already inhabit the PP game will still be there, and perhaps they could organise a small amount of wing activity. But it would still be limited to those PvP players that you will already find the way the game architecture is working right now. So no *more* PvP players, and only a small possibility that those already existing PvP PP players will bring the soft targets with them in wings for their protection. It will still be exactly as rare as it is now. You may see a slight increase, but I wouldn't expect PvP PP like this play to double the PvP activity that you see right now. Would you?

Option 3 is entirely probable and possibly the most likely option that the soft targets would take if PP was limited to the Open environment.


That's just my own analysis of the situation. Doesn't make for good reading, I'm afraid, and it does make me pretty unhappy that option 2 wouldn't have much uptake, because it does sound relatively good fun. That said, I wouldn't be encouraged into PP myself.

Would you care to add any thoughts on my analysis?

Yours

Mark H

Ok, and what do we have today for PP? people use it for modules and jump to a different power after 4 weeks to get the next module. PP players complain about people hauling in SOLO, PP is extremely unpopular since its treated as a major grind with poor pay.

Maybe if they would make this as a PVP content you would have a safer Open since the fire will be directed to fight within the PP arena instead of everyone else.

Anyway, we will see what they will do with squadrons, I am very interested to see what the future of this game will look like, keep in mind that every piece of content they produced since PP including PP turned out to be mediocre at best, funny thing that the engineers is the only activity which gave more depth to the game and is actually very popular.

As of today there is no point doing any PVE activity in Open, since it can all be done in the safety spot of SOLO producing the same results, I just dont understand why FDEV fail to see it as a huge drawback to the game. One mode has all the risks without extra rewards.

 

[Stigbob]

Ok, and what do we have today for PP? people use it for modules and jump to a different power after 4 weeks to get the next module. PP players complain about people hauling in SOLO, PP is extremely unpopular since its treated as a major grind with poor pay.

Maybe if they would make this as a PVP content you would have a safer Open since the fire will be directed to fight within the PP arena instead of everyone else.

Anyway, we will see what they will do with squadrons, I am very interested to see what the future of this game will look like, keep in mind that every piece of content they produced since PP including PP turned out to be mediocre at best, funny thing that the engineers is the only activity which gave more depth to the game and is actually very popular.

As of today there is no point doing any PVE activity in Open, since it can all be done in the safety spot of SOLO producing the same results, I just dont understand why FDEV fail to see it as a huge drawback to the game. One mode has all the risks without extra rewards.

They needed interested customers to justify making the game financially, hence appeal to both PVP and PVE. It was like that from the start, the trick is to welcome it as making the game possible at all rather than worry which mode other players are in.

 

[Jockey79]

Maybe if they would make this as a PVP content you would have a safer Open since the fire will be directed to fight within the PP arena instead of everyone else.

Well between the 2 main threads you've been answering in, your own posts prove some of you are not looking for content.
You want soft targets who wont shoot back.

Making PP PvP only wouldn't improve PP, jut improve your target count for about a week, until everyone got used to the block feature.
then you'd be right back here, moaning about the block feature.

If you honestly wanted to improve PP, you'd ask for PvP to be turned off, then folks could play open and meet other CMDRs while playing.

Anyway, we will see what they will do with squadrons, I am very interested to see what the future of this game will look like, keep in mind that every piece of content they produced since PP including PP turned out to be mediocre at best, funny thing that the engineers is the only activity which gave more depth to the game and is actually very popular.

RNGneers was so popular they had to nerf the grind on it to get people to use it.
Also, please stop saying what is popular or not. You have no proof to back those claims up, you're starting to sound like Trump.

As of today there is no point doing any PVE activity in Open, since it can all be done in the safety spot of SOLO producing the same results, I just dont understand why FDEV fail to see it as a huge drawback to the game. One mode has all the risks without extra rewards.

PG is better than Solo, as you get the multiplayer side of open but with people you know and trust.

PG Rules

 

[Vacendak]

In before the lock...

To answer your question(s), I play solo. I don't like, nor need to play a computer game with other real people. I play computer games to get away from real people and just have fun.

I have no need to be someone else's 'game content' thank you.

What this dude said. Have some rep [up]. This is why I only play in Open occasionally. Its either some jackwagon trying to fill his lulzbucket in the insta-kill ship he spent 2 months straight engineering or the Chatty Cathy who just goes on and on. I can deal with short bursts of interaction but quickly become irritated with the exception of a small group of CMDRs in the PGs I play in.

Really wish people would stop with the "play my way because its the right way" shizz. Why do people like the OP care so much about what I do or how I play the game? Why is he so worried that I might be missing out? I certainly don't care what he does in game and I'm not in the least bit concerned if IMO he's missing out on something.

 

[Han Zulu]

Here's an idea for getting more Solo playing traders into Open, if a trader (without bounty) is killed by another player, make the insurance cost much less for his/her rebuy, and perhaps even have low insurance on the cargo as well and a chance to rebuy that too. Basically, making it less costly to be killed by another player. Just a thought I had.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

What this dude said. Have some rep [up]. This is why I only play in Open occasionally. Its either some jackwagon trying to fill his lulzbucket in the insta-kill ship he spent 2 months straight engineering or the Chatty Cathy who just goes on and on. I can deal with short bursts of interaction but quickly become irritated with the exception of a small group of CMDRs in the PGs I play in.

Really wish people would stop with the "play my way because its the right way" shizz. Why do people like the OP care so much about what I do or how I play the game? Why is he so worried that I might be missing out? I certainly don't care what he does in game and I'm not in the least bit concerned if IMO he's missing out on something.

You affecting the multiplayer BGS/PP, that is the ONLY reason people care.

Here's an idea for getting more Solo playing traders into Open, if a trader (without bounty) is killed by another player, make the insurance cost much less for his/her rebuy, and perhaps even have low insurance on the cargo as well and a chance to rebuy that too. Basically, making it less costly to be killed by another player. Just a thought I had.

I never intended to get SOLO people into OPEN, they just shouldn't be affecting the common BGS that's all. You want to be in SOLO, no-one cares, just stop ruining other's BGS/PP work while hiding.

 

[Han Zulu]

I never intended to get SOLO people into OPEN, they just shouldn't be affecting the common BGS that's all. You want to be in SOLO, no-one cares, just stop ruining other's BGS/PP work while hiding.

Well... that would mean to remove 80% of what you can do in the game. Missions, trading, mining, all of it that you can do and want to do in Solo is part of BGS. How can you make all that go away? I wouldn't consider doing missions in Solo to be a form of hiding. Anything you do changes the balance on the reputation, ranks, and influence in the system, Solo or not. You want those actions not be part of the BGS or ... ?

Take a system that's in famine. A suggested action to get it out of it is to sell food there. Now, if someone is doing that in Solo, either you want it not to affect the state of the system, or you don't want them to have the opportunity to sell food there. That would remove game play from Solo. Game play that's not PvP nor multiplayer based.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Here's an idea for getting more Solo playing traders into Open, if a trader (without bounty) is killed by another player, make the insurance cost much less for his/her rebuy, and perhaps even have low insurance on the cargo as well and a chance to rebuy that too. Basically, making it less costly to be killed by another player. Just a thought I had.

For many players, having zero rebuy, and their cargo fully insured, still wouldn't be enough for them to fly in an environment with open PvP. It isn't the cost of dying, but the unpleasantness of an encounter with a "PvPer," that keeps them out of Open. The type of player attracted to that type of "emergent content" is simply incapable of understanding that there's another human being in their crosshairs, or understands and deliberately makes it as much of the antithesis of fun as they can.

This kind of player needs other players to be their content, but is unwilling to return the favor. THAT is why they're not fun to play with. This phenomenon has been observed and understood for nearly thirty years now, so I doubt they're going to change anytime soon.

The fact is, every single player who has the least bit of tolerance for the kind of crappy "content" that "PvPers" provide is already in open. They're not likely to get any more.

edit:

I also can't help but notice that a certain someone can't keep his story straight, about whether he wants only Powerplayers to be forced into Open, or everyone.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

For many players, having zero rebuy, and their cargo fully insured, still wouldn't be enough for them to fly in an environment with open PvP. It isn't the cost of dying, but the unpleasantness of an encounter with a "PvPer," that keeps them out of Open. The type of player attracted to that type of "emergent content" is simply incapable of understanding that there's another human being in their crosshairs, or understands and deliberately makes it as much of the antithesis of fun as they can.

This kind of player needs other players to be their content, but is unwilling to return the favor. THAT is why they're not fun to play with. This phenomenon has been observed and understood for nearly thirty years now, so I doubt they're going to change anytime soon.

The fact is, every single player who has the least bit of tolerance for the kind of crappy "content" that "PvPers" provide is already in open. They're not likely to get any more.

edit:

I also can't help but notice that a certain someone can't keep his story straight, about whether he wants only Powerplayers to be forced into Open, or everyone.

PP should be open, no doubt. BGS, well IMO should be open only as well, but lets keep it the way it is.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

PP should be open, no doubt. BGS, well IMO should be open only as well, but lets keep it the way it is.

I feel it is far too late to make such radical changes. Unfortunately, as neither of us are actually employed by FD as developers, we do not have the inside knowledge to declare whether such an extreme move is even technically possible.

I tend to assume it isn't possible. After all, no changes have been made in this regard, and indeed, FD have said on record that they intend to keep the parity of modes as is.

Seeing as they hold all the cards...

I'm not telling you to give up lobbying. But I am also not afraid to say that I think your lobbying will never amount to the changes you desire.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

I feel it is far too late to make such radical changes. Unfortunately, as neither of us are actually employed by FD as developers, we do not have the inside knowledge to declare whether such an extreme move is even technically possible.

I tend to assume it isn't possible. After all, no changes have been made in this regard, and indeed, FD have said on record that they intend to keep the parity of modes as is.

Seeing as they hold all the cards...

I'm not telling you to give up lobbying. But I am also not afraid to say that I think your lobbying will never amount to the changes you desire.

I dont disagree at all, actually I am 100% certain that nothing will change, its all just hypothetical suggestions (well I have to pass the time at work somehow ), in the history of this game I dont remember FDEV making any drastic changes, I dont anticipate them here as well.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I dont disagree at all, actually I am 100% certain that nothing will change, its all just hypothetical suggestions (well I have to pass the time at work somehow ), in the history of this game I dont remember FDEV making any drastic changes, I dont anticipate them here as well.

Fair enough. I bear no ill will on you, and as you can tell, I've rarely spoken to you. (Which is saying something given I have the tenth highest number of posts on this forum)

I would, indeed, like it if Solo/PG were completely separated from Open. My reason for wishing that, is that it would hopefully just extinguish some of the flames that have raged on these boards for years. Plus I'd have my epic single-player game.

However, I am a realist and I simply don't see this happening.

 

[Jockey79]

PP should be open, no doubt. BGS, well IMO should be open only as well, but lets keep it the way it is.

There is no doubt that Frontier should do what they want with their game.
And that is, to make all content available for every player in every mode.

And that is what they are doing.

(Which is saying something given I have the tenth highest number of posts on this forum)

And where did you get that from, as your not even in the top 20 for this thread ?

[Edit: Sorry if this sounds aggressive, but if you have an overall Forum ranking I'm not aware of, I'd like to see it - be an interesting read]

 

[Deleted member 110222]

There is no doubt that Frontier should do what they want with their game.
And that is, to make all content available for every player in every mode.

And that is what they are doing.



And where did you get that from, as your not even in the top 20 for this thread ?

[Edit: Sorry if this sounds aggressive, but if you have an overall Forum ranking I'm not aware of, I'd like to see it - be an interesting read]

Member list. You can order by post count.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/memberlist.php?order=desc&sort=posts&pp=25

 

[MannyDib]

There is no doubt that Frontier should do what they want with their game.
And that is, to make all content available for every player in every mode.

And that is what they are doing.

Exactly
Saying that PP should only be in Open is just a way of saying "I'd rather do direct PvP combat for PP than work PP simulation in Solo"
Well some people would rather work the PP simulation in Solo than do direct PvP combat for PP

 

[Darkfyre99]

What really gets me is that at quite a few people on this thread who don't participate in Powerplay, have said they would if Missions or other ways of earning merits were introduced. Several people have commented on a desire for direct PvP to earn players merits. Many people have explained that as Powerplay is now, escorts and blockade are a failing strategy.

And yet, what is the focus for the "pro-PvP" crowd? What is the one thing they cry for, over and over again, while dismissing other ideas as irrelevant? Forcing solo and PG players into open.

 

[Jockey79]

Member list. You can order by post count.

Thank you, didn't realise you could do that with the member list.

I actually feel so much better about the time I spend (waste) on the forums, I'm not even on the first page
And TJ really needs a hobby!! OMG. LOL.