Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Players can choose to interact in both multi-player game modes, if they want to, of course.
Modes The modes are brilliant!
- Thread starter Ziggy Stardust
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Players can choose to interact in both multi-player game modes, if they want to, of course.
Actually it is you who is making people play on your terms, while not playing on theirs.
I don't mind Solo or PG at all. Hell, why not have a demo mode, where even you yourself don't interact with the game. I do mind reclusive yous influencing everyone else's game on their terms, while not having the balls to face the consequences on the other people's terms.
To clarify: I just don't want actions in PG/Solo to affect the game, I'm all for letting you progress the way you want. I'd even like for Frontier to release a dedicated server application, so you can roll your own.
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When FDEV implement the imminent Open PVE mode people will stop hiding and we'll all be one big happy playerbase. Another lovely mode to sprinkle a little more brilliance onto the game.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Actually, it is Frontier letting us all play on our own terms, not the terms that others would like to be able to dictate - as they designed, developed and released a game where direct PvP is entirely optional.
As long as we aren't talking something where all scenarios can be averted to BGS grinding then you have my vote. Reputation might become useful, and that is also one of the most upsettingly underutilised aspects of this game.
Alas from experience, such suggestions are dismissed, again because "why should x player base have content we don't". IMO it's a farcical opinion to have on either side. Take this out the "Open v PG" context, and I don't see people complaining that combat ships cannot use mining equipment; different players should have different content for different activities. The only reason to avoid that is to preserve development time/resource.
Hooray! Dissent
I have interacted with others in Private Group a lot. Any reason that is interaction which does not deserve to be counted?
No, interact with players. Not just the two or so in your PG.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... probably because combat ships can actually use mining equipment.
This game does not force players to interact with other players directly, hence the three game modes.
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You're doing it again. Loosen up with that stuff, it just winds people up.
Just because frontier are stuck with it for the time being doesn't mean that the people who have to stomach PG grinding are going to think it's fair or rewarding play.
So it's not about interaction. I'll await his response though.
UA bombing needs to go the way of the Dodo. It makes no sense whatsoever.
No, it really is not.
See, I am spared of people who feel I need the balls to face the consequences on the other people's terms. I am spared this kind of gamey bad boy talk. If you think you are a tough guy because you play in Open, go you! I don't reason that way.
It's clear you don't. But I do. So that's one preference to another, both of equal worth. Frontier has decided which way to go, and that happens to suit me.
Why would you say just two players?
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Then people are getting wound up by the fundamental design of the game - a design that was set over five years ago.
Frontier would not seem to be "stuck with it", rather committed to it - they continue to offer us all the opportunity to play the game how we want to - not to have to play the game how others want us to. (recognising that this means that some players' preferred play-style may be affected by other players not wanting to engage them in it - which is always possible when ones playstyle relies on other players)
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I'm not sure what you are objecting to. A combat ship can equip mining equipment if they really wanted, but it would serve zero purpose; combat and mining are separate activities. Do you object to the notion that there should be more than a single piece of content all players are forced to enjoy? That would be irony beyond measure.
Wow - happy people with a happy thread. "Dangerous" times indeed. Or is that just a rank and never anything else? 
. Ziggy you are wild and reckless - where will all this madness end? When the salt miners, gankers and griefers get wind of this I bet they'll demand a complete restructuring of the Forum. "Happy? Happy! No, no, no. Choice? - you're spoiling EVERYTHING!! WAH!!! We don't care if it was designed and coded that way from the start. Change the Forum NOW!!!!..."
Actually I'm happy too. I bought a second account in the last sale. Now promise you won't tell anyone naughty but my new CMDR is running wild and free in Open - "Gasp". I was so proud. His little Sidey ran the gauntlet of the starter system and he's on his way. Bit like watching one of those nature documentaries where the hatchling escapes the snapping jaws.
And slightly off topic: Edradour. Small and perfectly formed. Not to everyone's taste. But hey, I like it. After all, it's nice to have a choice... Cheers everyone. o7
. Ziggy you are wild and reckless - where will all this madness end? When the salt miners, gankers and griefers get wind of this I bet they'll demand a complete restructuring of the Forum. "Happy? Happy! No, no, no. Choice? - you're spoiling EVERYTHING!! WAH!!! We don't care if it was designed and coded that way from the start. Change the Forum NOW!!!!..." Actually I'm happy too. I bought a second account in the last sale. Now promise you won't tell anyone naughty but my new CMDR is running wild and free in Open - "Gasp". I was so proud. His little Sidey ran the gauntlet of the starter system and he's on his way. Bit like watching one of those nature documentaries where the hatchling escapes the snapping jaws.
And slightly off topic: Edradour. Small and perfectly formed. Not to everyone's taste. But hey, I like it. After all, it's nice to have a choice... Cheers everyone. o7
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I was pointing out that players probably don't complain about combat ships being unable to use mining equipment simply because they can, actually, use mining equipment....
Equip, yes. A ship constructed for combat (as opposed to a military ship built for mining) with mining tools wouldn't be able to extract platinum by shooting a 'conda with the laser though
ergo, mining and combat are separate activities, even if the more daring will do the former while being prepared for the latter.
I posted this in another thread but it seemed to get lost in the sea of arguments so let's try again.
There's nothing wrong with solo and PG in itself, it's the fact that people can use it as an impenetrable shield when manipulating the BGS or participating in Powerplay.
The current problem with PP and BGS activity being affected in PG/solo is that it turns this into a game of numbers rather than skill. If you have 100 players in solo all grinding away at a system, the 10 players in open prepared to stop them have zero chance, even if they tried the PVE route. Elite should be a game based on skill, not popularity, but that is sadly the state of the game as it stands now. A solution to solo/PGers would be to have a personal merit count for powerplay that does not affect the simulation to allow for module shopping, and with the BGS, playing in solo/PGs would only affect the sim at a heavy penalty (Maybe 25% effectiveness). (I've also seen suggestions for a separate BGS for open which could work too, but would be difficult with the mult-iplatform aspect.) That way, you can still play the whole game in solo fine, but if you want to play against other players, you have to face other players. Saying that Powerplay and BGS are fine in solo is kinda like saying you should be able to send NPCs after players in open so that you can PVP with them without ever touching open. It is a PVP mechanic at its core.
With the proposed engineer and C&P changes it does seem like FDev is opening themselves up to new ideas and turning the game back towards being skill-focused. I just hope they do the same with the BGS and Powerplay because right now, they may as well just host a weekly "Who is the best power" poll and the most votes wins.
There's nothing wrong with solo and PG in itself, it's the fact that people can use it as an impenetrable shield when manipulating the BGS or participating in Powerplay.
The current problem with PP and BGS activity being affected in PG/solo is that it turns this into a game of numbers rather than skill. If you have 100 players in solo all grinding away at a system, the 10 players in open prepared to stop them have zero chance, even if they tried the PVE route. Elite should be a game based on skill, not popularity, but that is sadly the state of the game as it stands now. A solution to solo/PGers would be to have a personal merit count for powerplay that does not affect the simulation to allow for module shopping, and with the BGS, playing in solo/PGs would only affect the sim at a heavy penalty (Maybe 25% effectiveness). (I've also seen suggestions for a separate BGS for open which could work too, but would be difficult with the mult-iplatform aspect.) That way, you can still play the whole game in solo fine, but if you want to play against other players, you have to face other players. Saying that Powerplay and BGS are fine in solo is kinda like saying you should be able to send NPCs after players in open so that you can PVP with them without ever touching open. It is a PVP mechanic at its core.
With the proposed engineer and C&P changes it does seem like FDev is opening themselves up to new ideas and turning the game back towards being skill-focused. I just hope they do the same with the BGS and Powerplay because right now, they may as well just host a weekly "Who is the best power" poll and the most votes wins.
The shared BGS is a fantastic idea, less time effort and resources to run and we all get to play in one big happy universe in the mode or even modes of our choice.
Couple of questions:
Would 10 CMDRs in Open be able to stop 100 CMDRs in Open?
Would 10 CMDRs in Open be able to truck more merits than they could prevent?
My point is, 10 CMDRs could stop a small number of CMDRs, but the majority would still deliver. Maybe the 10 could be more efficient trucking themselves than trying to stop others?
Not sure if that's the case, but it seems logical.
OK, but that means it's you who wants others dance to your tune. You want to mess with their game on your terms. Otherwise you wouldn't need your actions to affect their game.
Why not give it a try. Maybe you'll even enjoy it.
You sir, know nothing about me, or the game I play. I want a persistent galaxy throughout the modes because it becomes a mess otherwise, I like persistence. I'd wish we;d have NPC and message board persistence as well. That's my only stake in this discussion. I don't BSG much (except when I deliver data but it's usually a random NPC faction which happens to sit at the edge of the bubble).
So ... what about my balls?
I have tried, I didn't.
What about the point of that post? Any thoughts on that?
I don't know whether you ever played NWN, you can have persistence of many own worlds.
You tried stopping 100 haulers with 10 ships? That's what I was replying to. You definitely can mission kill them, if they are running shieldless. Because that's another thing, people hiding in PG specifically because their ships are fitted to exploit that 'god mode' while sending PvP pilots against haulers in open, forcing them to give up hauling capacity.
You tried stopping 100 haulers with 10 ships? That's what I was replying to. You definitely can mission kill them, if they are running shieldless. Because that's another thing, people hiding in PG specifically because their ships are fitted to exploit that 'god mode' while sending PvP pilots against haulers in open, forcing them to give up hauling capacity.
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