Modes Elite Dangerous PvE vs PvP and who needs a Solo play if you had PvE server

So it's just about feelings, not rules?

What about people going into solo and PG in order to spoil the game for the PvPers. Shadowban them too?

No of course not don't be so silly it's about interacting with other people. In this instance it's about getting rid of people who are trying to ruin someone's game whilst completely ignoring the rules and behaving in a way that negates them. Mobius infiltration isn't playing the game it's just trying to spoil it, which is why there is no actual rule "don't try to spoil everything" for any game, as these things are dealt with through normal human interaction.

For example I'm a real life archer occasionally some people start repeatedly walking behind the targets to try and spoil our game (can't shoot with anyone in the target area in case of injury/death), they are removed via normal human interaction. You can't do that in a video game so we rely on the dev's to ban them, or we do it ourselves via block.
 
What a dull, milquetoast experience this game would be without Open/PvP.

My thoughts exactly, without pvp its just endless grind and incompetent farmable npcs.
PvP is a true end game after the pve grind is finally over.

For some maybe, but those who have a history of the Elite / Frontier series of games, it's about the game not the pew pew.

Shooting others in PG is not against the TOS, FDEv will not do anything to the infiltrators. The only thing that is against TOS is if you are being removed from the group and create an ALT account and try to infiltrate again.

As I've answered this already in the other thread - and you've chosen to ignore it. I'll say it again.

EULA, section 7.3.2 - harassment.

Knowingly joining a group to break it's rules was made clear by Frontier as harassment and a breach of the EULA.
And Frontier did do something about it when it happened last time.
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
For some maybe, but those who have a history of the Elite / Frontier series of games, it's about the game not the pew pew.



As I've answered this already in the other thread - and you've chosen to ignore it. I'll say it again.

EULA, section 7.3.2 - harassment.

Knowingly joining a group to break it's rules was made clear by Frontier as harassment and a breach of the EULA.
And Frontier did do something about it when it happened last time.

Well, you have a live example, I know who are the infiltrators in this case and they are happily flying in open, FDEV did not and will not do anything to them.
 

Deleted member 115407

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No player will ever be able to "spoil" your game just by doing a PG in Solo. You really need to get this odd EVE competition thinking out of your head. There is no such thing in ED other than the illusion of it.

I've never played EVE, actually.

No of course not don't be so silly...

You're right, I was just being silly.

For some maybe, but those who have a history of the Elite / Frontier series of games, it's about the game not the pew pew.

What does one have to do to have a "history with Elite"? I never knew about the 1984 version, but have about 2000 hours in this one. I assure you that only a tiny fraction of those 2000 hours were spent shooting at other CMDRs. How long do I have to play Elite Dangerous, or how many hours of PvE must I commit myself to before I get to be included in that special group?

As I've answered this already in the other thread - and you've chosen to ignore it. I'll say it again.

EULA, section 7.3.2 - harassment.

Knowingly joining a group to break it's rules was made clear by Frontier as harassment and a breach of the EULA.
And Frontier did do something about it when it happened last time.

If an acceptable course of action was taken, what's the controversy?
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
What about people going into solo and PG in order to spoil the game for the PvPers. Shadowban them too?

Shooting at other players is permitted in Open (even if not all players like it), so is affecting the single shared galaxy state from any of the three game modes (even if not all players like it).

Repeatedly joining a PvE Private Group to engage in PvP would seem to constitute harassment though, from what Frontier have stated.
 
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Well, you have a live example, I know who are the infiltrators in this case and they are happily flying in open, FDEV did not and will not do anything to them.

Well they've already been Mobius account banned after scoring a grand total of five kills, so they need new accounts to try again. That's pretty expensive per kill so I can't see them bothering, and if they do more cash for FDEV.

Then you've got the last time someone said FDEV will do nothing about this, that was just before they stripped the naughty modules away from the 5-1 cheaters who immediately started wailing comically.
 
Shooting at other players is permitted in Open (even if not all players like it), so is affecting the single shared galaxy state from any of the three game modes (even if not all players like it).

Repeatedly joining a PvE Private Group to engage in PvP would seem to constitute harassment though, from what Frontier have stated.

Brilliant comparison.

PvEr 'I don't like you shooting at me' PvPr 'To bad'
Open Player 'I don't like you affecting the BGS/PP from PG or solo' PG/Soloer 'To bad'

Just brilliant.
 
Indeed.

Shooting others in PG is not against the TOS, FDEv will not do anything to the infiltrators. The only thing that is against TOS is if you are being removed from the group and create an ALT account and try to infiltrate again.


Yet Fdev has given Mobius the tools to permaban accounts from joining Mobius after they attempt to infiltrate. SO some have decided to wait for sales pick up cheap copies of ED and attempt again. Fdev banning the ISP from even playing the game will send a clear message that these actions are not tolerated as it is harassment and against the TOE that we all had to read and agree to.
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
Well they've already been Mobius account banned after scoring a grand total of five kills, so they need new accounts to try again. That's pretty expensive per kill so I can't see them bothering, and if they do more cash for FDEV.

Then you've got the last time someone said FDEV will do nothing about this, that was just before they stripped the naughty modules away from the 5-1 cheaters who immediately started wailing comically.

I fully support the 5-1 punishments, wouldn't mind if they ban them but that means banning most of the PVP community :), so FDEV wouldn't do it obviously.

As far as Mobius invasion, you get banned but need to logout of the game in order for that to take effect, and there was much more than 5 kills, I saw the video. You get to do it one time per account, thats true.
 
I fully support the 5-1 punishments, wouldn't mind if they ban them but that means banning most of the PVP community :), so FDEV wouldn't do it obviously.

As far as Mobius invasion, you get banned but need to logout of the game in order for that to take effect, and there was much more than 5 kills, I saw the video. You get to do it one time per account, thats true.

One of the Mobius attackers posted that he got five kills before the ban, so I'll go with his numbers.

Why bother doing it ?.
 

Deleted member 115407

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One of the Mobius attackers posted that he got five kills before the ban, so I'll go with his numbers.

Why bother doing it ?.

Couldn't speak for them, but from an outsider's perspective it seemed to me like just an elaborate prank.
 

Deleted member 115407

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Since it's frequently mentioned in the context of PvP... I still struggle to see the significance of BGS/PP in general but for PvPer in particular. Since ED doesn't have a vital economy and hence you can't cut someone away from vital resources (because they simply doesn't exist), what's all this good for?

You're definitely not alone in that. There are a lot of reasons people play the BGS and PP though. Some folks like the game of chess, for some it's the thrill of knowing that others are directly working against you. Folks like to have their names on stuff, regardless of if it's only a name.

I will say that I think the argument that PvP is useless in BGS/PP work is a bogus one. If a player group can actively drive CMDRs away from a particular resource (say, a mission board at a space station, for instance), then they can exert control over that resource. If system work were only done in open, and a player group had enough manpower to fortify their system through threat of force, then they could halt any work happening there. What I mean is - PvP is only minimally useful to BGS/PP work because it can be circumvented by the other game modes. If those modes didn't exist, or couldn't affect one another, then there would be good potential for PvP as an effective method of conquer and control.
 
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ALGOMATIC

Banned
Since it's frequently mentioned in the context of PvP... I still struggle to see the significance of BGS/PP in general but for PvPer in particular. Since ED doesn't have a vital economy and hence you can't cut someone away from vital resources (because they simply doesn't exist), what's all this good for? These structures are way too weak to seriously concern a PvPer, or what am I missing here...

Furthermore, I can't recall similar requests of significant game changes made by any of the known top-tier PvPer, at least not that I'm aware of. I'm under the impression these high skilled pilots know exactly how and where to find their challenges. Could it be that these requests are in reality coming from low level PvPer and mainly are a hidden plea for some more fish in the barrel to shoot at? [where is it]

The top pvpiers are SDC, I guess it sums up this part of the conversation.

As for how PvP can play a role in bgs/PP, undermining enemy traders while protecting your own.
Distracting enemy ships so mission carriers and trade ships can by pass without hassle.

It comes down to the fact that if you are being killed in PvP you can't complete your PVE missions and that's how we can have a great gameplay with everyone involved.

Fdev needs to increase the payouts for cmdr kills as well as change some other game mechanics.
 

Deleted member 115407

D
The top pvpiers are SDC, I guess it sums up this part of the conversation.

As for how PvP can play a role in bgs/PP, undermining enemy traders while protecting your own.
Distracting enemy ships so mission carriers and trade ships can by pass without hassle.

It comes down to the fact that if you are being killed in PvP you can't complete your PVE missions and that's how we can have a great gameplay with everyone involved.

Fdev needs to increase the payouts for cmdr kills as well as change some other game mechanics.

Queue the argument that it doesn't matter because of limited instancing.
 
Brilliant comparison.

PvEr 'I don't like you shooting at me' PvPr 'To bad'
Open Player 'I don't like you affecting the BGS/PP from PG or solo' PG/Soloer 'To bad'

Just brilliant.

Its more like an obvious fact I am amazed people don't get; the BGS/Powerplay is PvP. Just different rules.

To be frank, to me the complaint is not getting your player ship kills, not the lack of competition.
 

Deleted member 115407

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I don't mean to say that PvP should never have any connection to the BGS but as it stands right now, where is the significance to a PvPer? I have to admit that I'm not playing the BGS nor doing any PvP (for now at least) but sometimes I wonder if there really are any BGS battles between competing groups going on? ED isn't football where there's only one ball for all teams if you know what I mean.

Well, without the mechanics to support faction warfare (faction tags, state-dependent rules of engagement, etc) there really is little point in it. Wars do happen, but in the last one I fought, most everyone wanting pure PvP stayed in open, and most everyone looking to do BGS work just dropped into the private modes.

*edit*

On a side note, see this is what I'm talking about with content - doing simple data runs and running into a fair number of CMDRs... everyone just passing each other by, minding their own business. Then this cutter comes along and I watch him make a bee-line for me and deploy hardpoints. I successfully evaded the interdiction and meandered about for a few minutes, came back, made it to station, and am turning in. PvP without a single shot fired. That made this simple A-B mission run 10 times more fun than it would have been in Solo/PG.
 
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Deleted member 115407

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That's absolutely correct but meanwhile it has become some sort of a convention to associate PvP with Pew Pew. ;)
For the sake of easier discussions we probably should look for some distinction between C(ombat)-PvP and B(GS)-PVP...

I've long said that the entire discussion is stunted by referring to the opposing sides as "PvP" and "PvE"

They are not mutually exclusive player bases.
 
Well, without the mechanics to support faction warfare (faction tags, state-dependent rules of engagement, etc) there really is little point in it. Wars do happen, but in the last one I fought, most everyone wanting pure PvP stayed in open, and most everyone looking to do BGS work just dropped into the private modes.

*edit*

On a side note, see this is what I'm talking about with content - doing simple data runs and running into a fair number of CMDRs... everyone just passing each other by, minding their own business. Then this cutter comes along and I watch him make a bee-line for me and deploy hardpoints. I successfully evaded the interdiction and meandered about for a few minutes, came back, made it to station, and am turning in. PvP without a single shot fired. That made this simple A-B mission run 10 times more fun than it would have been in Solo/PG.

I can certainly understand and agree with the sentiment you express above, which is why I play primarily in Open. However, I realize I also have a fairly high tolerance towards being chased. That being said, before my work schedule changed to 5am, there were definitely nights where I felt the thrill of being hunted in Open had devolved into an irritating interruption of my extremely limited play time. It wasn't like there was any doubt about what would happen, on the unlikely chance of them actually interdicting me. I fly blockade runners with strong shields and reinforced hulls, and I'm not likely to freeze up, so I know I'll get away. Throw in the fact that my would-be attacker rarely communicates with me, and too many "pirate" attacks in a row just become annoying.

(Coincidentally, that is why I also quit Powerplay. I couldn't earn merits via the mission system, I don't enjoy ABA cargo runs or combat farming, and the frequent NPC interdictions got old really quick. Which is why I help out my chosen power via the BGS instead. Give us Powerplay Missions, Frontier!)

The thing I find most frustrating about the "BGS/PP Open only!" crowd is that they refuse to admit the reality of this game: unless they can set up effective blockades 24/7, across all three platforms, and ensure that they have enough members in every major city on the planet, and then somehow get their opposition to join them on a VPN and add them to their friends list, they'll never see 98% of the players who are influencing things, even if they played in Open.

Before my "Imperial Shield Inspector" experiment, I spent a week in Eravate with my alt-account (freshly wiped), and never once encountered the so-called "Overlord of Eravate." As far as my game sessions were concerned, Eravate is a free state. Which isn't a surprise to me, given the odds of him living in the same city I do, and playing at the same time I do.

If players in Open are that unlikely to encounter any opposition, I see no point in restricting the deeper parts of ED gameplay to Open, beyond the desire for easy player kills. If they were truly interested in making Open, and PvP, a better experience, they'd be asking Frontier to add a PvP system that would allow them to influence the BGS/PP without having to jump through the PvE hoops, one that would encourage healthy and fun PvP.

edit:

The problem I have with this is that humans tend to make no sense. I still recall an encounter of my early days in Open where a Commander interdicted me. I escaped and was interdicted immediately again. And again. And again... How is that fun? You'll never see such dumb and futile behavior from an NPC who only do it once, also NPC pirates don't shoot at you if you don't carry any cargo or give them what they demand. I don't say that human players that make sense actually wouldn't exist, but in my experience either the former type dominates or players just throw a friendly o7 and that's it (or a friend request without sharing a single word before, how ridiculous). Or immediately vanish on first appearance cause, well, I could be a ganker. :p Can't find the thrill in that.

Meanwhile I widely ignore that and fly in Open anyway (two clicks less to boot), but not sure if I want to advertise this mode to anyone else. There probably need to be an upgrade of human player behavior in Open in the first place, before we start talking about forcing anyone into Open, something that I still believe isn't possible for a plethora of reasons...

Edit:
Don't get me wrong, I'm a well established rich Rockefeller who doesn't like to fly his big ships so that there's really nothing I have to fear or to lose. To me it's all about immersion and a certain player behavior as described above destroys my sense of being in the game a lot more than even the most stupid NPC could ever achieve. Or in other words: Better some artificial life that makes at least halfway sense than some real human idiots that make no sense at all.

I had a wanna be GSPie (Ganks single player) do something similar to me. I was in a mercurial mode at that time, so I decided to see how long it would take before he realized that he was of no threat to me. Plus, I figured if I had his attention, he wasn't bothering other players. After the seventh iteration of "submit, evade, and low wake," I actually tired of the game, and sent him the message, "You DO realize I'm willing to do this all the way to the station, don't you?"

There wasn't an eighth attempt. :D
 
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