Modes How to incentivise Open without buffing its rewards
- Thread starter Powderpanic
- Start date
Nope, just accept the fact that the game is not designed to be controlled through direct PVP...and request changes that make sense to the design.
Its not the same, this would be true if ED didnt have PVP mechanics and PvP specific weaponry and special effects.
But ED has PvP in it, what is missing is the content. Your analogy is wrong.
That was not sarcasm.
Having PvP mechanics does not make it a PvP game. It means if you choose to PvP you can, but you don't have to if you don't want to.
That is the difference you're refusing to accept.
SC = all PvP all the time.
ED = PvP, meh why bother?
You wont get support from the wider player base to put PvP incentives in open. They want game content, not pew pew.
ED is a PvE game, proven on your own menu screen, where you see "Solo". Not much direct, shooty PvP going on in Solo.
Plus tell me how many other PvP focused games have a block player from my game feature? (they have block someone from your chat, but not the game).
So my analogy is spot on, your just refusing to accept your assumption of ED was wrong.
You're in a PvE game, demanding PvP entitlements.
If you want to see more people in open, the only way you'll get it is by limiting / removing direct PvP.
The exact opposite of what you want.
All of them? They all have that feature, because cheaters/cheesers/greifiers exist in all pure PvP games too.
People still PvE in Open, and having a healthy online game mode isn't just about pew pewin more suckaz, it would mean a more varied experience available to all.
Solo is the third option down, while Open is the first so I think it is a real consideration of there's.
It's not PvE vs PvP, but it does seem to be people who don't want to play in Open against people who want more people to play in Open and I don't get it.
Surely people who don't want to play in Open can stay in Solo and Private, already having all the benefits of those modes.
Any incentive into Open would only balance the experience for those who risked/lost more while playing in Open. You have more rebuys and you fail more missions through loss of cargo etc.
It's understandable for there to be some incentive to balance it out.
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You may want to read what I wrote again, as you missed the point completely.
(Hint: In pure PvP games, you don't get to pick and choose who you play with. In Elite you do. My comment had nothing to do with "cheaters/cheesers/greifiers")
Yes, people PvE in open, they PvE in Groups, they PvE in Solo. You know what they don't do in Solo.....
PvP.
The order they are in has nothing to do with anything.
Frontier made the assumption Open would be the most popular / used, so they put it at the top.
But according to some, Open is a wasteland devoid of all life - so Frontier got it wrong over how important random encounters would be.
(if the naysayers are right)
And people who play Open get the benefit of playing Open - they get the random encounters that can be peaceful or not.
So you get a bonus in Open already that no one else gets.
If Open is so dead it needs a bonus - then there is no risk, as there is no one there to shoot you in the first place.
Also, "risk" is subjective. My autistic son faces more risk in Solo than you'll ever face in Open, so what bonus does he get?
What about my arthritic parents, do they get a bonus due to not being able to move the controls as fast as you do?
Does my heartburn count? Can I get a 30 minute bonus after ever meal I eat, because that heartburn really distracts me and may cause me to have to go and throw up.
Oh and I need a bonus every Friday from 6pm GMT, as I'm on the beer and my skills really deteriorate to the point I could be classed as disabled, so the game is a lot harder for me.
Lots of people face risk in Solo, in Groups and in Open - all for different reasons.
Currently, everyone gets the same for their time no matter who they are or their skill level - so the game is balanced.
Starting to give a bonus, because of a personal choice you made when you loaded the game over where to play isn't balance, it's favouritism.
Jockey, there is PVP in the game...and the whole of the game is designed around that PVP...you want to control something, get out the right ship, and move those PVE trophies around.
THIS is the point all the 'real PVP people' keep missing, ignoring, or somehow fail to grasp.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Le sigh.......
You know whats so funny about all these conversations
Is each side ends up saying essentially the same stuff. While making direct PVP look bad or good or even unwanted.
Roybe is right, thats where the Real PVP is at. I agree with it. All I/we/some of the PVP community am wanting is all forms of PVP to be involved. You do one, You do the other. When people start doing it. By no fault of their own. If people HAVE THE OPTIONS they will use them so nothing impedes on their progress.
We've seen that with powerplay, people speaking up about that forever.
We see it in BGS wars.
There is no real incentive for PVP in this game right now. It doesnt get used dang near just the same amount from BGS pvp as does Direct PVP. Some people might grow some factions. And there are a few groups that have some PVP battles here and there. They pop up from time to time. Almost at the same ratio of people in "Direct PVP".
Both small, Both partially used in this way.
I hope giving the guilds/fleets direction. A purpose will help with that. And possibly powerplay on-top of that. 2 birds, 1 stone.
I think everyone in the community has it all wrong,
Sando has been pushing for this for a very long time. I see lots of people Nay-saying Sandro. And lots of people taking some of the replies hes said. But almost all of those posts, start with his initial post, Like this one,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ation-for-PP?p=3680532&viewfull=1#post3680532
I believe this is something hes been trying to fix for a very very long time. And nobody gives Sandro an inch to move from either side. Hes in a position like Ghostcrawler was with World of Warcraft.
Its tough being in that position. Welp I thought Sandro has had great idea's that would solve multiple problems and give Direct PVP a place within this game.
For something so awesome, it doesnt have to be a salt fest. And playergroups have organized their own Hub and CG hangouts because the Intended PVP Baseline in this game is not working because of the FLAWS that Private and SOLO have on those Intended game Mechanics.
It doesnt get any more clearer than this. And if people decide to argue it. Its because of selfishness, And you only have yourselves to blame for all this griefing and ganking. PVE and PVP community split. When it should be PVP vs PVP with a side of pirating.
Ryan_M17 and the people that built the PVP HUB. Literally had "If you build it, they will come" Moment. And lots of people are thankful for it.
If frontier did the same things with Powerplay and BGS Faction Wars between player groups. It would literally have the same effect.
You arent involved in either of those? The BGS stays the same as it is now. Go enjoy your game. Literally nothing has changed if you arent involved in any PVP what so ever.
You know whats so funny about all these conversations
Is each side ends up saying essentially the same stuff. While making direct PVP look bad or good or even unwanted.
Roybe is right, thats where the Real PVP is at. I agree with it. All I/we/some of the PVP community am wanting is all forms of PVP to be involved. You do one, You do the other. When people start doing it. By no fault of their own. If people HAVE THE OPTIONS they will use them so nothing impedes on their progress.
We've seen that with powerplay, people speaking up about that forever.
We see it in BGS wars.
There is no real incentive for PVP in this game right now. It doesnt get used dang near just the same amount from BGS pvp as does Direct PVP. Some people might grow some factions. And there are a few groups that have some PVP battles here and there. They pop up from time to time. Almost at the same ratio of people in "Direct PVP".
Both small, Both partially used in this way.
I hope giving the guilds/fleets direction. A purpose will help with that. And possibly powerplay on-top of that. 2 birds, 1 stone.
I think everyone in the community has it all wrong,
Sando has been pushing for this for a very long time. I see lots of people Nay-saying Sandro. And lots of people taking some of the replies hes said. But almost all of those posts, start with his initial post, Like this one,
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ation-for-PP?p=3680532&viewfull=1#post3680532
I believe this is something hes been trying to fix for a very very long time. And nobody gives Sandro an inch to move from either side. Hes in a position like Ghostcrawler was with World of Warcraft.
Its tough being in that position. Welp I thought Sandro has had great idea's that would solve multiple problems and give Direct PVP a place within this game.
For something so awesome, it doesnt have to be a salt fest. And playergroups have organized their own Hub and CG hangouts because the Intended PVP Baseline in this game is not working because of the FLAWS that Private and SOLO have on those Intended game Mechanics.
It doesnt get any more clearer than this. And if people decide to argue it. Its because of selfishness, And you only have yourselves to blame for all this griefing and ganking. PVE and PVP community split. When it should be PVP vs PVP with a side of pirating.
Ryan_M17 and the people that built the PVP HUB. Literally had "If you build it, they will come" Moment. And lots of people are thankful for it.
If frontier did the same things with Powerplay and BGS Faction Wars between player groups. It would literally have the same effect.
You arent involved in either of those? The BGS stays the same as it is now. Go enjoy your game. Literally nothing has changed if you arent involved in any PVP what so ever.
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Love how you've ignored 3 times the retraction Sandro put out regarding that post, saying he was "musing out loud" and he should not have "pulled the pin on that hand grenade".
[Edit: Okay, wasn't going to, but I will - here is the post]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=26m40sSandro Sammarco said:
[/Edit]
And again you've also ignored a more recent Dev post;
As long as PvP is in the minority, they will not make the game direct PvP centred.
Which is what you're looking for.
I really wish SC would hurry up and become a game, so you folks had your dream of C.O.D. in cockpits.
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Or, and here's a novel idea, the menu items are ordered alphabetically. You know, O, P, S
Guess we could argue that they could emphasize equality by sorting them horizontally and not vertically, but that's just semantics.
Though I often disagree I do tend to appreciate your musings 90's, generally they get me thinking but the above part of your post is pure tripe. If people do decide to argue it then they have their reasons, they aren't being any more selfish than you are for suggesting it. And where to start with 'you only have yourselves to blame for all this griefing and ganking', Jesus, can you hear yourself, the blame for both lay squarely at the door of those doing it and Frontier for not addressing it. It isn't those at the end of it's fault that someone is 'bored' and has to express it by urinating people off, it isn't those on the recieving ends fault that Frontier don't give much of a damn for PVP and it isn't their fault for having a different opinion to you on subject x, y or z.
The 'split' is down to toxicity from both sides, it's from gloating, mode/group invasions, revenge and more. Why on earth posts like yours seem to try to resolve those truly responsible of the blame is beyond me.
It's "Beyond" amazing how often this gets ignored.
There's a main mode?
verminstar
Banned
Hammer? Meet nail. Nail? This is hammer.
I remember when it was much worse...pvp players used the now infamous tagline 'git gud or go solo' in almost every single thread created to complain about their attitude...which obviously just made it a lot worse.
Its been mentioned many times by many players...that in every argument, its always the players fault fer refusing to git gud, frontiers fault fer putting the modes in, the mods fault fer favouring pve, frontiers fault again fer not developing pvp further into powerplay...the list goes on. The pattern in every single case is thyat pvprs are seemingly incapable of admitting their toxic attitudes ever played any part in this tale of woe.
Without even a trace of humility, its extremely difficult to take them seriously at all. In my opinion thats why they havent gained so much as an inch of ground with any argument ever...their refusal to face upto the consequences of their actions and throwing the blame at anything or anyone else in an effort to avoid it is something that in itself causes problems.
And thats why the cases are transparent...the motivation behind it is always the same...moar pew pew. Whether or not the content enjoys the experience or not is, at best, a secondary concern
Single share with forced PvP is future of dead games. Like it has been in the past too.
PvP enthusiasts are so tiny customerbase, that anyone stupid enough to try to coddle up to them at expense of larger PvE majority is asking to go bankrupt.
Actually even I have to point out this isn't exactly true.
- Planetside 2
- War Thunder
- Wargaming.net games (world of ....ships / tanks / warplanes)
- Battlefeild
- Battlefront
- EVE-Online
- Dreadnought
- Call of Duty
These are all great PvP games with strong communities and should be around for years to come.
But that is the key difference, they are PvP focused. Elite: Dangerous isn't.
Last I looked at that vaporware, they also intended to make it possible to run your own servers without any PvP. Which was welcomed by quite a lot of people. Amusingly, even there idea of forced PvP is about as welcome as plague.
oh, I'd forgotten about that. Great point.