Flagging griefers

Martian Successor

Martian Successor
Martian Successor said:
Does it matter what the OP contained? Stuff can get thrown into the PvP section at a whim apparently nowadays.
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Speak of the devil. Lo and behold! Can y'all guess which section this thread is now in? [haha]

picard-facepalm.jpg
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Rafe Zetter said:
You make a good argument and a week ago I would have agreed with you, now however I've come to a different conclusion after some investigation, into my personal theories.

This is being done in part for "teh lulz" by some players jumping on the bandwagon - but also to HIGHLIGHT the utter stupidity of a player being able / allowed to do all these things by the wholly ineffective BGS and AI.

A higher percentage than you might think of those "bullies", are doing it because they can, NOT BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT, but because the game ALLOWS IT, which is wholly different.

As you say - INSIDE a station and INSIDE the zone you would think the station security should react to. Previously this was going on in starter systems until FDev finally took steps to reduce it, but elsewhere it's still rampant.

This is also happening because FDev "allow it" by ommission of doing anything effective to stop it when complaints are made, either with warnings or sanctions against the accounts in question.

Gueromarinero (or anyone else), please do not make the mistake of beleiving I'm on the side of griefers, I'm not and have made that VERY VERY clear in the years I've been on the forum (and I dedicated part of my life to stopping the "bullies" of society, at personal risk) but when you start to look at the wider picture and actually ask a few pertinent questions in the right places, and the answers you get are not "me smash you huh!" but articulate, intelligent and clearly the result of more than a few minutes thought, the entire situation of this sort of behaviour becomes clearer.

My conclusion is that this antisocial behaviour is a campaign of sorts to force FDevs hand into action:

"lets see just how bad we can make the game in OPEN for players before FDev do something to fix the incredibly flawed BGS mechanics"

So far the answer seems to be "as bad as you can possibly think of, for THREE YEARS AND COUNTING"

With something like 90% of the playerbase in groups or solo.

Considering one of the next big content updates is a rebuilt Crime & Punishment mechanic - I'd say it's working.

For those of you who might argue that the C & P is happening because this was happening anyway, you're only half right, because in truth just DAYS after the game was launched we had the real ACTUAL griefers in disposable sideys doing the same thing - FDev ignored it for months, and some players saw that FDev were going to continue to ignore it and decided the only way to effect change was to make the situation so untenable for new players, FDev had NO CHOICE but to address it.

Gueromarinero - what you and others have been victim of is more of the same - because instead of FIXING the same situation last time at the roots so it couldn't happen elsewhere or again, they just stuck a plaster over it.

Many of you are probably not even aware that there have been concerted planned efforts to do this same exercise for several other parts of the game that were "broken" - and in turn it forced FDev to change it.

It seems to be the only language they respond to.
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Mental acrobatics - you're quite good at it. Still wouldn't eat crap, even if you sweet-talked to me like that.
 

nosleepdemon

nosleepdemon
Martian Successor said:
Speak of the devil. Lo and behold! Can y'all guess which section this thread is now in? [haha]
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Man I remember a week ago when my DBS pvp build thread got moved here. Took me 5 minutes to navigate through all the sub forum menus to find the place, at first I was rather displeased, but I did get some excellent advice which has since paid off in terms of "lulz" gained. I wonder though, if any advice given to the OP regarding how to avoid getting themselves into hairy situations in open might fall onto deaf ears?
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
nosleepdemon said:
Dear Lord, what did I just read?

Griefers absolutely murder other players for the lulz. The reason you get, as you say, articulate responses from them is because shockingly, you can be a player killer AND a perfectly intelligent human being.

The big difference between griefers and ... Uh, cry babies, is that griefers fully understand the distinction between real life and fantasy. To this end, losing some virtual credits or ships or what not simply isn't concerning to them. Why? Now one could argue, "but cmdr nosleepdemon, when a player dies they still lose time!". To this I say, if you didn't already have enough fun spending that time, you may be a little too heavily invested into make believe!
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Please read again

SOME do - there will always be those players who have seen or read that acting that way is ignored by FDev, ingame or out.

But after positing a theory that has been bubbling in my mind for a while now, I was pointed in the right direction, and I did some more digging of my own.

I wasn't spoonfed the information, and I'm neither gullible nor stupid.

I read, I thought and my conclusion is the result. I looked elsewhere and had that conclusion verifed.

In short - more than a bit of that "griefer behaviour" is, in actuality, an ingame protest.

Just as has happened in other games before - one of which I was personally witness to - because I took part, and the reminder of that event 8 years ago was the trigger that helped the previously tenous theory solidify into an actual CREDIBLE, theory.

Think of it this way - the RIOTS, in Syria recently - the RIOTS in Egypt not so long ago, the RIOTS in Greece a few years back - all of it "antisocial" behaviour that affects people not directly involved, but here's a question:

Would you CHANGE the outcomes of what came after because of those riots?

Or would you consider that maybe, just MAYBE the rioting was a result of the fact that "being nice" wasn't getting you anywhere?

Sometimes the only way to make change is with a gun, not a handshake.
 
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rrobes

R
Avoid CG's until the problems are fixed. That's what I do, simple.

Open is truly devoid of players apart from CG's and a few hot spots.

As far as making ships be "responsible" or be the "carrier" for crime penalties isn't in the least appealing.

If you commit the crime, you should be responsible. If you want things dangerous, become a supreme criminal/pirate/killer, then accept the consequences.

Tagging players, it's done now, The Pilot's Federation does it. Maybe we should just add new categories based on the crimes you commit.

It's all been said before.
 

nosleepdemon

nosleepdemon
Rafe Zetter said:
Please read again

SOME do - there will always be those players who have seen or read that acting that way is ignored by FDev, ingame or out.

But after positing a theory that has been bubbling in my mind for a while now, I was pointed in the right direction, and I did some more digging of my own.

I wasn't spoonfed the information, and I'm neither gullible nor stupid.

I read, I thought and my conclusion is the result. I looked elsewhere and had that conclusion verifed.

In short - more than a bit of that "griefer behaviour" is, in actuality, an ingame protest.

Just as has happened in other games before - one of which I was personally witness to - because I took part, and the reminder of that event 8 years ago was the trigger that helped the previously tenous theory solidify into an actual CREDIBLE, theory.

Think of it this way - the RIOTS, in Syria recently - the RIOTS in Egypt not so long ago, the RIOTS in Greece a few years back - all of it "antisocial" behaviour that affects people not directly involved, but here's a question:

Would you CHANGE the outcomes of what came after because of those riots?

Or would you consider that maybe, just MAYBE the rioting was a result of the fact that "being nice" wasn't getting you anywhere?

Sometimes the only way to make change is with a gun, not a handshake.
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The major difference is real world vs the virtual. In a virtual world you can just turn away from whatever is bothering you and do something else. That's not so easy in the real world. I would be careful when comparing groups of people pushed to the brink of dispair, to players in a game who have decided that they want to have a laugh. A better comparison would be with consequence - most people will do whatever they can get away with, especially if the consequences of their actions are not immediately obvious. Thus I believe the primary motivation for griefing is the simplest - people do it because they find it amusing, and because they can. Oh sure if you ask them why, they will spin all sorts of reasons to hide the shallow truth, and perhaps a couple of players really, truly, are partaking in some sort of bizarre protest. For the most part though, "for the lulz" is pretty much as deep as these things go.
 

nik_a777

nik_a777
I think expert pilots with a malicious disposition in engineered meta ships represent the zenith of the ED combat experience, and would hate to see that phenomena neutered to suit players who by admission are relatively new to the game and "pampers level combat". I've eaten several rebuys from 'griefers' earlier in game and it's the most exciting aspect ED imo, something to beware of and perhaps aspire to, and certainly a relief from the 'take A to B for X' tedium, or npc's who's only challenge is if you have enough ammo. Now i've played long enough to own a safer ship, (which takes about a week) and honed its edges with engineers, I can survive long enough to escape most encounters and would be delighted if someone tried to squash me in a Python.
 
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thirstyfish

thirstyfish
There is one way to win the griefer game: don't play. There's a few reasons that I don't bother with open anymore, and crappy people is just one of them (bugs, lag, connection issues that occur in only when I'm in open, etc).
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Martian Successor said:
Not anymore. Mods hid the thread in the place where threads go to die and then closed it anyway cos they decided it was taking too long to die. That's apparently how freedom of speech is treated on this forum as of 2018.
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It is pretty sad to see a conversation that spawned over 60 pages in less than 24 hours get deep sixed in a sub that hardly gets any attention at all.
 

Red Anders

Red Anders
jasonbarron said:
It is pretty sad to see a conversation that spawned over 60 pages in less than 24 hours get deep sixed in a sub that hardly gets any attention at all.
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Especially when the sub in question is 'PVP' and although the topic was raised by a member of a well-known PVP group it's actually about a game rule which as far as I'm aware applies to all modes.

I'm sure some people would have thought I was joking when I said that any automated combat logging policing should apply to solo and private group as well as open. I wasn't at all.

As for OP's point, I suggest he finds an official list of the things he hasn't consented to in open and posts it. Assuming that like any reasonable person, he would agree that he gives implied consent to anything which isn't specifically precluded by the authority here, which is FDev, he may then understand why he's SOL.
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Red Anders said:
Especially when the sub in question is 'PVP' and although the topic was raised by a member of a well-known PVP group it's actually about a game rule which as far as I'm aware applies to all modes.

I'm sure some people would have thought I was joking when I said that any automated combat logging policing should apply to solo and private group as well as open. I wasn't at all.

As for OP's point, I suggest he finds an official list of the things he hasn't consented to in open and posts it. Assuming that like any reasonable person, he would agree that he gives implied consent to anything which isn't specifically precluded by the authority here, which is FDev, he may then understand why he's SOL.
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I should have also noted that not only was it sad to see it get booted to the trash bin, er, "pvp sub", but the fact that it was then clubbed in the head like a baby seal when it didn't go ahead and die on its own is embarrassing, to be quite blunt.

Frontier's stance on the issue is embarrassing.
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu
Kaa Mchorror said:
Open is only broken for the players who can't be bothered to pay attention to their surroundings. Do you walk around neighborhoods where bad things can happen without your head on a swivel and an exit plan if things go wrong IRL? Bad things don't happen near as often if you are proactive about avoiding sketchy situations or being prepared.
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Actually, I don't even go to those neighborhoods at all. I stay in the safe areas so I don't have to look over my shoulder. Hence, going to Solo or PG is the same action to avoid those areas. Open is the "bad neighborhood" to avoid.

With that said, I only avoid Open with my exploration account. I recently started to play in Open on my combat account. In that one, haven't had a problem. The only times I've been griefed is in my exploration account if I played in Open, but in my combat acct, haven't had any issue so far. But then, I have a good enough ship in that one so that might be enough to keep griefers away.
 

Han Zulu

Han Zulu

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Han Zulu said:
You probably also could do some griefer fishing.

Buy a sidewinder. Remove the shield. Fly to different CG areas. Each time you get killed, add the killer to your ban list. Repeat until no one is bothering you anymore. Go get your other ship you really wanted to use.
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Or, now this is just a random thought mind you, you could put half as much time into learning to properly outfit and fly as you do "fishing for griefers" and not only would your problem be solved, you'd actually become a decent pilot. Just an idea.
 
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