When will it become a game? Will it become a game?
- Thread starter Enderby
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More involved.... let me tell you a story. The best kind of story. A true story!(except for all the stuff that didn't happen)
I accepted an assassination mission. "Kill Pirate Lord: Whatshisnuts - novice rank". I full speed ahead and boost out of the station in my C rated Eagle "Babymetal"(Yes. Named after that japanese girl metal band). I light a cigarette and wait for mass lock to go away, and then I jump to a system, and then the next. I swoop around the sun and fuel scoop a little, not enough to top the tank off, but enough to save a little cash. Dropping off at the Nav beacon, I slow down to scan it. Pirate Lord Whatshisnuts is about 1200 lightseconds away, apparently chilling by a moon at some outpost.
I crank my throttle up, and engage supercruise, when all of the sudden, I come under fire. I toggle through my targets, and get a good look at the name of the pilot shooting at me... "Whatshisnuts". I had just enough time to register the name in my mind when POOF, supercruise kicks in and I'm barreling through space towards my target. Apparently, Lord Whatshisnuts wasn't content to be hunted. I swoop back around, drop off at the nav beacon again looking for him. Still puffing on my cigarette, and scratching my beard about what exactly just happen, i decide to go ahead and visit that spot the nav beacon told me. I boost my way into Supercruise again, and line up with my destination.
When all of the sudden, I am interdicted. Lord Whatshisnuts had somehow gotten behind me, even worse, his rank was Competent, not Novice. I slow down, and let him interdict me. Dropping out of hyperspace, I immediately flick my hardpoints up, and target my oppoent. Lord Whatshisnuts immediately opens up with beam cannons and multicannons both. First pass took out 2/3 of my shields. I pop my chaff, and he breaks off on the next pass. I maneuver my Eagle on to his six easy, it's probably the one redeeming feature of that bird. I open up with m y forward mounted pulse lasers, and quickly take his shields down. He turns in mid space, still going the same direction, and opens up on me again, while flying backward. MY shields are knocked down to 1/3 again in less than a second, and I pop my next chaff. He breaks off again, and tries to boost in behind me, but I loop my eagle around on his six again, and switch to my missiles. His shields are down, missiles are good for that, right?
I fire my first missile, and POOF! it blows up before it hits. I was immediately angry. NO ONE uses point-defense on MY missiles!! NO ONE!! I open up with my pulse lasers again as his shields come back online, and immediately knock them out again. This time I keep him lit up with my lasers, and fire another missles. POOF! No impact. Next missile, POOF! no impact. I laser him down to 40% before his shields kick back on again, and he starts his mid-space turn again. This time, I was ready. I popped my chaff before he could draw a bead on me, and he boosts to try to ram me. I easily swoop around to his 6 again. Open up with my lasers, and proceed to empty all of my missiles at him, none of which hit... except my last one! Knocked him down to 6%, and my pulse lasers finished off the rest.
BOOM. 70,000 credit bounty, on top of the 250,000 for the contract... It was a very involved and engaging experience, having the tables turned on me like that.
Now, after that anecdote, to respond to one specific part of your comment that I can relate to... Multicrew. I remember upon release and getting my first Adder, looking at the other chair and going, "It would be awesome if I could get a friend to co-pilot for me". I was very interested in multicrew, and I was happy when I learned they were implementing it. I suppose the sad part of it all, is that by the time multi-crew came out, my friends had gone back to WoW and left me. The few left with me, couldn't afford to get ED, or idn't have rigs that could run it.
Next up was ground exploration. While I much prefer the stars, I do remember a lot of people saying, "Wouldn't it be nice if we could land on planets?" and then there it is. Two big things I remember players saying they wanted, and FD delivered. I think FD has done very well at listening to players, and providing what they want without disrupting, unbalancing, or outright destroying the core concept of the game. This game has a lot of hardcore fans, and many of us have had Elite in the back of our brain for decades. There arent very many of us that speak up and try telling FD how to do their job. We don't want ED to be an "MMO". While Open play does create an MMO effect, and the chance to meet/wing/fight/kill other players is a lot of fun, the base core of this game is "space simulator"... not MMO.
With a lot of the requests(whining) people have over this game, the things required to 'fix' it for them, would break it for us. So, FD is in a very precarious position with their product. Break it for their hardcore fans and risk losing them, or find a way to balance adding content that doesn't tarnish or damage what the base idea of the game is all about. So far, I think Frontier has done very well with that. They introduced a new ship that I will never-ever-ever buy, ever... but i think it's awsome! I honestly can't wait for the day that Type 10 is in my crosshairs.
And now that I've typed a small book, it's high time I hunt down somthing to watch and try to do that sleep-thing humans are supposed to require.
Like others, you are confusing genre with type. Space simulator would be a genra while MMO is a type. They are exclusive.
Still, I loved the story! rep+
This kind of post annoys me. Not because I think that people should not be able to criticise ED or because I don’t agree with the views expressed, but because of the sweeping and presumptuous premise. A statement is made, as though it is a given that everyone feels the same way, rather than expressing an opinion that may or may not be shared.
That seems a little trolly, if I'm honest. There's lots about ED I think would make it a better game - mostly based on my residual desire for an updated Frontier: First Encounters than the updated Elite we got. But even at my grumpiest I can't deny there's a game here.
Even on its own terms there's a lot that ED lacks, a lot that would make it better. But there's no question it's a game. There are bits of the game I find fun, and bits I don't. I love the setting, the freedom, some of the mission types, and driving an SRV like a maniac (as long as I'm not on an ice world). I dislike the flight dynamics, everything about the Thargoids, the lack of pilot-convenience features like a proper autopilot, and the fact the game isn't more simulator and less arcade machine.
All that said, different people enjoy different elements. But everyone, without question, is playing the game. Maybe you just haven't yet found the bit of it that most entertains you? Chances are it's in there if the game interested you in the first place.
Oh, that's really easy. No Man's Sky.
Unfortunately, it's the only thing that is implemented well in the game (in my opinion). Space flight and other stuff is diabolical. I don't play NMS anymore. I still play E: D.
(obligatory tongue-in-cheek response)No pencils? No problem! How's your origami?
I've never found anything to make me care about football (soccer). Because there's nothing in the game to make me care about it, and we've waited a good couple of hundred years at this point, does that mean it's not a game?
It is like you don't care...you just enjoy it for whatever it is
Strange times we live in. Like who needs classification if a thing you do is fun.
Naw, I got it. Space is the "genre" and "simulator" is the type. It's "MMO" I was using generically, like "MMORPG","MMOFPS", "MOBA". ED has qualities for both, with the Open and CQC features, but I don't see it as either MMO- or MOBA. I just see what people on here are saying they want... and while I don't disagree with them 100%, implementing a 'deep immersive story'(just grabbing at an example) could potentially ruin the game. In most MMO-'s, the "story" is little more than a milestone marker to seperate players into groups, and restrict content until players jump through the hoops. While ED does have some restricted content, it's not the core of the game. You can have years of fun and NEVER get a Sirius pass, or the pass to get into the system of the Pilots Federation. I've been playing on and off (mostly on) since release, and I've never once had to "grind rep" until recently. When I decided to get the Sirius Pass.
The game I see brought up most often in comparison is Witcher 3. An RPG with some really-really cool features. ED is not a narrative driven RPG. When I sign on and get into my spaceship, "I" control the narrative. I'm not playing someone elses story, I'm playing mine. There's a reason I'm not hunting thargoids. It's not my problem! If ED was an MMO-, getting involved in the Pleadies would be mandatory, and I would be punished as a player for not participating. Be it not getting loot, or a key item. Same applies to the Community Goals. By not participating(once again, someone elses problem!) I'm not punished as a player. It's a game that I can truly play MY WAY! I think that's what most players on here mean when they say "use your imagination."
It didn't take much imagination for the story above. I don't even know how that even happened. If it was a bug, or if FD scripted some missions to be deceitful in their description just to catch a person off-guard. I've even hunted down a few more Competent's, and none of them flew the way Pirate Lord Whatshisnuts did. If I had been slower on my chaff, or weak to swing behind him as fast as I did, I'd probably be a dead pilot. I might sound aggressive on some of my posts(some of them I am), but for the most part I do understand that people "want more". ED is an awesome game, and I too 'want moar!', but at the same time, I don't want FD to break the parts of the game that I love so much. Perhaps there is some way to incorporate a narrative into it? Or make the chained missions seem more.. significant.. I don't know. Set up some scenario where the chick that takes you through the tutorial drops you a message to meet her somewhere, and kicks off some kind of narrative??? Really, I don't know.
The difference in players is a good example with Ceitidh, we enjoy very different aspects of the game. I personally, don't want pilot conveniences. I don't use a docking computer, nor gimballed mounts. I can't stand the lack of control! On the flip side, I don't do ground missions well at all, and driving crazy with an SRV?? ARE YOU NUTS?!?
The game I see brought up most often in comparison is Witcher 3. An RPG with some really-really cool features. ED is not a narrative driven RPG. When I sign on and get into my spaceship, "I" control the narrative. I'm not playing someone elses story, I'm playing mine. There's a reason I'm not hunting thargoids. It's not my problem! If ED was an MMO-, getting involved in the Pleadies would be mandatory, and I would be punished as a player for not participating. Be it not getting loot, or a key item. Same applies to the Community Goals. By not participating(once again, someone elses problem!) I'm not punished as a player. It's a game that I can truly play MY WAY! I think that's what most players on here mean when they say "use your imagination."
It didn't take much imagination for the story above. I don't even know how that even happened. If it was a bug, or if FD scripted some missions to be deceitful in their description just to catch a person off-guard. I've even hunted down a few more Competent's, and none of them flew the way Pirate Lord Whatshisnuts did. If I had been slower on my chaff, or weak to swing behind him as fast as I did, I'd probably be a dead pilot. I might sound aggressive on some of my posts(some of them I am), but for the most part I do understand that people "want more". ED is an awesome game, and I too 'want moar!', but at the same time, I don't want FD to break the parts of the game that I love so much. Perhaps there is some way to incorporate a narrative into it? Or make the chained missions seem more.. significant.. I don't know. Set up some scenario where the chick that takes you through the tutorial drops you a message to meet her somewhere, and kicks off some kind of narrative??? Really, I don't know.
The difference in players is a good example with Ceitidh, we enjoy very different aspects of the game. I personally, don't want pilot conveniences. I don't use a docking computer, nor gimballed mounts. I can't stand the lack of control! On the flip side, I don't do ground missions well at all, and driving crazy with an SRV?? ARE YOU NUTS?!?
Nobody wants to take the choice to do whatever you like away from players. I love the open world freedom of choice in this game, it's a huge part of the appeal. All I want is literally any reason at all to care about making those choices. It doesn't have to be some rigid MMO-style narrative, it only has to be some kind of visible effect or tangible difference in gameplay as a result of having done things. There just needs to be a context of some sort for these actions to exist in.
And before you bring up the BGS, it's almost completely inconsequential to my experience as a player. Who cares if the LTT 123908123 Purple Electric Company has control over some system? It makes no difference. It doesn't matter. Is it a dictatorship or a democracy? It doesn't matter. Are they a criminal or lawful organization? Who cares? To me, the BGS is the BIGGEST missed opportunity to add some feeling of greater purpose to the actions of players. Powerplay, too.
If my actions as a player never result in anything except my money increasing so my capacity to do more of the same things I've been doing is increased every now and then, then what's the point of doing those things? Some kind of greater purpose, something to work towards, or even just anything that all that has a tangible effect that lasts beyond the instant of doing the thing, that's all I'm looking for. A reason to get invested in a specific system, faction, or power beyond marginally improved mission payouts. A feeling that I as a player and the things I'm doing exist in a world, rather than a series of pointless mini-games.
tl:dr On the rest of the thread but in answer to the question as to the purpose of the game, the clue is in the title: Elite.
The ultimate aim is to reach Elite in all the disciplines, via humble beginnings to (probably) reach the Trade Elite, then armed with a decent boat and plenty of rebuy the Exploration Elite then finally Combat Elite. Whether I even attain one of them is another matter all together but that is what the mechanism of the game offers. It's not a quick burn Mass Effect with x number of pre-scripted missions that always play out the same way or you must win to move on, rather mlore an epic dynamic campaign.
The ultimate aim is to reach Elite in all the disciplines, via humble beginnings to (probably) reach the Trade Elite, then armed with a decent boat and plenty of rebuy the Exploration Elite then finally Combat Elite. Whether I even attain one of them is another matter all together but that is what the mechanism of the game offers. It's not a quick burn Mass Effect with x number of pre-scripted missions that always play out the same way or you must win to move on, rather mlore an epic dynamic campaign.
But there are reasons to get invested in football. The competition, the representation of your country, the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. People care about whether or not their team wins.
Imagine if football had no competitions, none of the teams represented anything, there's nothing to win or lose, and the actual act of playing the sport was simply kicking a ball by yourself over and over again for no reason other than to continue kicking the ball. That's Elite.
Really want to emphasize this part... because I think this is also where a lot of players get discouraged. They're looking for an "end game" or a "destination" where there really isn't one.
The game was designed to be open-ended, huge and expandable. FD adds content along the way- it wasn't all introduced from the very beginning with a specific "end" to it. Then you have those who have a specific focus (PvP combat, etc.) who don't realize this game isn't a "one trick pony". People often talk about how "bored" they are playing as if that's all there is to the game, instead of seeing it for what it really is.
Doesn't mean everyone has a compulsion to do so. Just as not everyone in life has a competitive spirit. Nothing "wrong" with either viewpoint as long as both are respected equally.
Oh, that's really easy. No Man's Sky.
uh, forgot about that, how embarrassing!
That kind of makes my point. I'm not interested in the competition. I couldn't give a stuff about the representation of my country (and I say that with real feeling). Whether or not I, or a specific team, win or lose at a game of football does not interest me in the slightest. It just doesn't. Football leaves me cold, and always has, no matter how many people I meet who clearly do take a deep and passionate interest in it. Does that mean it's not a game? No, of course not. It's just one that they enjoy but I don't.
Whereas, I'm very interested in what I can find on that planet down there; whether this mission will make me enough to buy this or that module; whether I can reach that particular rank, or get that ship, or find a really nice view.
This is the point: when someone says, "There's nothing in this game that's interesting, therefore it's not a game", all they're saying is that they don't find the game interesting. Just as I don't find football interesting, despite the many, many people who do.
What interests me obviously needn't necessarily interest you, and vice-versa. There are elements of a game that can be measured in objective, empirical terms. "Interest" - at least beyond a certain very basic point - isn't generally one of those elements.
You just described the difference between competition and art. The 'competition, the representation of your country, the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat', none of that has actually anything whatsoever to do with the subject itself. If that is your motivation, you could be motivated by literally anything people do competitively, football or otherwise. Others look for intrinsic value of an activity: they may kick a ball, play an instrument or fly a pretend spaceship even if noone would ever witness it, there is nothing to win, no applause or respect to be earned. They do it just because the activity has intrinsic value to themselves. If competition with others, representing your country and such is the thing you love, Elite must suck for you. If you're the kind of person that can sit in a room, and do something just because it is intrinsically interesting or fun for whatever reason, Elite may be for you.
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There is something deeply suspicious about blokes that don't like football [where is it]
Well, you should be fine with me, then.
Clearly they are more evolved.