Beyond 3.0 - C&P and Wing missions

[Dominic Corner]

You are trying to be cheeky but it's a valid point. Why the content that is there prevents people who want to wing up from doing it doesn't make any sense.

Hi there,

I'm not a designer, so it's difficult to really speak to design reasons, but the easy answer is wing-enabled missions are balanced for being completed by multiple people whearas normal missions are not.

Most missions, where you could benefit from multiple people being with you, you can already complete with help from your wing (all the ones which require ship/skimmer kills already take into account whether the "killer" was in a wing with you so you don't get kills stolen by wing members) but we don't duplicate out rewards to everyone because the effort required is expected to be that of a single player.

With wing missions, the effort is increased to expect multiple people to be required (though you can attempt them on your own and I expect some of the super awesome pilots out there to surprise us) and so, I beleive, the rewards are generally intended to be greater and we duplicate them out to each player involved.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Stealthie]

They still would have to pay off their bounty at some point though. So, if they managed to rake in so many bounties that their ship cost rebuy would be stupidly high, they probably sould have about a billion or so waiting in bounties that would have to be paid when they get ‘unlucky’

Are we saying that everything that gains you "notoriety" also gains you a bounty?

Bounties for CLing?

Just seems like if any "excess" on your rebuy due to notoriety is less than the total you've saved by CLing then it's still worthwhile to CL.
Conversely, if it's more that you've saved by CLing, you might as well just CL a bunch of times and then remove all your engineered modules, take your ship out, get it destroyed and reject the rebuy in favour of a Sidey.

Course, more simplistically, with credit-farms being what they currently are, I doubt anybody will really give a toss about any "rebuy excess" anyway.
For most people it'll be about as much of a concern as the cost of repairs, fuel or ammunition.

 

[Funny]

Are we saying that everything that gains you "notoriety" also gains you a bounty?

Bounties for CLing?

Just seems like if any "excess" on your rebuy due to notoriety is less than the total you've saved by CLing then it's still worthwhile to CL.
Conversely, if it's more that you've saved by CLing, you might as well just CL a bunch of times and then remove all your engineered modules, take your ship out, get it destroyed and reject the rebuy in favour of a Sidey.

Course, more simplistically, with credit-farms being what they currently are, I doubt anybody will really give a toss about any "rebuy excess" anyway.
For most people it'll be about as much of a concern as the cost of repairs, fuel or ammunition.

Combat logging doesn’t gain notoriety though, pretty sure about that...

 

[bigity]

Hi there,

I'm not a designer, so it's difficult to really speak to design reasons, but the easy answer is wing-enabled missions are balanced for being completed by multiple people whearas normal missions are not.

Most missions, where you could benefit from multiple people being with you, you can already complete with help from your wing (all the ones which require ship/skimmer kills already take into account whether the "killer" was in a wing with you so you don't get kills stolen by wing members) but we don't duplicate out rewards to everyone because the effort required is expected to be that of a single player.

With wing missions, the effort is increased to expect multiple people to be required (though you can attempt them on your own and I expect some of the super awesome pilots out there to surprise us) and so, I beleive, the rewards are generally intended to be greater and we duplicate them out to each player involved.

Thanks,
Dom

Wing missions have been explicitly described as being acceptable and achievable by single players - so I can't really buy the balance thing. NPC missions are not hard anyway, so I can't buy it from that angle either. Finally, the rewards would stay the same, so again - no balance issues created by doing single player missions with your friends.

If you think I am asking for regular missions to reward everyone in a wing for completion, that is not the case. I'd like to see the UI/system to facilitate a wing working together.

I'm not sure making 3 cutter runs vs 1 to complete a mission is really anything special - why not simply allow all missions to be done in multiple runs (either done sequentially by one player or simultaneously by 2 or more) and pay the same?

 

[Stealthie]

Combat logging doesn’t gain notoriety though, pretty sure about that...

I was just taking the OP at his word.

New addition of notoriety will address some of combat logging.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Wing missions have been explicitly described as being acceptable and achievable by single players - so I can't really buy the balance thing.

I think this is a big stretch to say. We saw only delivery mission done this way. Assassination mission describes super Engineered NPC ship. Yes, some people will be able solo it, but it is definitely something you will want to take on with wing.

I think what you want is specially designed missions where there's different things to do for involved. I doubt that's something so easily doable with FD mission system so soon.

 

[Kris]

Wing missions have been explicitly described as being acceptable and achievable by single players - so I can't really buy the balance thing.

That they are doable as solo doesnt meant they are balanced as solo (as i understand they are balanced for wing). Different things.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Combat logging doesn’t gain notoriety though, pretty sure about that...

No, but if you basically will 'collect' bounties and will try not to die, even trough combat logging, then your insurance will increase.

 

[SpaceScania]

I'm not sure making 3 cutter runs vs 1 to complete a mission is really anything special - why not simply allow all missions to be done in multiple runs (either done sequentially by one player or simultaneously by 2 or more) and pay the same?

Yeah I do agree with this. These larger trade missions shouldn’t require a wing to complete. I don’t care if you call them wing missions and allow them to be completed by wings, but players of all stripes solo, open, single player, multi-player, all of us have been asking for larger haulage and passenger missions since time began. If I can do these missions solo in my Cutter I will be so delightfully happy even if they are called ‘wing missions’.

 

[bigity]

Either way the point stands. Single player NPC missions are not challenging. Why not just make it easier to do stuff in this game in a wing, period - across the board.

Because playing with other people is fun, and can only help the game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Either way the point stands. Single player NPC missions are not challenging. Why not just make it easier to do stuff in this game in a wing, period - across the board.

Because playing with other people is fun, and can only help the game.

You can already do that.

 

[Dominic Corner]

Either way the point stands. Single player NPC missions are not challenging. Why not just make it easier to do stuff in this game in a wing, period - across the board.

Because playing with other people is fun, and can only help the game.

Hi there,

Can you give an example of something you can't do as a wing with single player missions already that you would like to be able to do?

Other than using the mission depot for carrying goods for the mission.

Thanks,
Dom

 

[Kaocraft]

And how should that work? None of the current missions are compatible to be completed in a wing.
It makes absolutely no sense to transport 50 tons of Palladium with a wing of 2 Cutters and 2 Type-10.

The only thing they could do (and maybe will do in the future) is replace all the old missions with the new wing-compatible ones.
But for testing, it's better ATM they stay as separate missions.

Dude. Some of the existing missions seem like they are basically *made* for a wing, and yet infuriatingly you cannot share them. Planetary assault? Base hacking? Hello! It would be SO COOL and fun to roll up on a base as a wing, with two friends providing air cover while two more race to hack data points.

The point of wing missions shouldn't be to have everyone all dump a certain amount of cargo into the same slog. That's just a set of scaled down, bespoke Community Goals. Neat, and I like the interface changes that it brings, but it's also totally missing the point.

It should be about each person bringing their relative advantage to a complex problem. If three people in SRVs can all drive into a base and hack three different data points, while one fights off the incoming viper patrols, now THAT is something that sounds fun. And there are already missions that have all these elements in place. The only problem is that at the moment, only one player can take on the mission and therefore one player has to scan all the data points himself, regardless of whether he has wingmates or not.

Let us share ALL missions, and the attendant rewards, and we'll figure out interesting ways to divide the labor.

P.S. it DOES make sense to transport 50 tons of Palladium with a wing of 2 Cutters and 2 Type-10, if the payoff is right. It's called an ESCORT.

 

[Stealthie]

You can already do that.

Not seamlessly.

THE first thing I ever attempted to do as a "multiplayer" thing was try and help somebody transport mission cargo to a destination, which failed because as soon as they dumped some of their mission-critical cargo the mission fails.

It'd be nice if they could sort it out so that, basically, you could do whatever you wanted with cargo as long as it got from A to B somehow.

 

[nathanc213]

Hi there,

Can you give an example of something you can't do as a wing with single player missions already that you would like to be able to do?

Other than using the mission depot for carrying goods for the mission.

Thanks,
Dom

Planetary combat missions, right now they can be completed in a wing assuming that every wingmate has the same mission but it would be easier if it was a wing mission to start with.

 

[bigity]

Hi there,

Can you give an example of something you can't do as a wing with single player missions already that you would like to be able to do?

Other than using the mission depot for carrying goods for the mission.

Thanks,
Dom

Have anyone in the wing take a mission and everyone else can see it.
Having anyone in the wing be able to turn in a mission once completed.


Two pretty basic things IMO for being able to work together to get missions done.

 

[TheSisko]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Wing missions against Thargpids yet.

If anything makes Wing Missions worthwhile, its our insect overlords. I know some players have soloed a Thargoid, but I bet the majority of players haven't, and could do with help to take one down. So much the better as a mission with a selection of rewards.

 

[bigity]

Planetary combat missions, right now they can be completed in a wing assuming that every wingmate has the same mission but it would be easier if it was a wing mission to start with.

Another thing that seems like a no-brainer for a game with wings. Everyone's activities counting towards it, even for simple kill X missions (not extra credit for same kill mind, but different kills).

 

[Cageman]

Have anyone in the wing take a mission and everyone else can see it.

How would you balance that?

Lets say that I take a mission designed for a solo player to complete; kill a pirate lord as an example.

Then, just because I am in a wing, all my wingmates get the same mission... we all jump in and completely gank the pirate lord in 20 seconds, and everyone gets the reward?

No... Wing missions needs to be in its own category where the challenge is scaled based on the fact that it is a winged mission.

EDIT: This can be done currently btw, but without the other CMDRs getting any reward... for the other CMDRs, it should be a truly altruistic action, to help a fellow CMDR complete his single player mission.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Is it me or this wing missions design you offer bigity feels like tailored towards fastracking newcomers?