If it is obtained by a threat, then you shouldn't have a bounty as an interdiction is only a fine and should be payable at the CG station. Also it could be worth doing some pirating away from the CG system as many ships need to go from system to system to fill there hold (could be fun shadowing commanders to see where they go using the ingame tools) , if you pirate them outside of the CG system, then there will be no bounty in the CG system allowing you to land and dispose of your stolen/given goods as you see fit.
Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome
- Thread starter NeilF
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If it is obtained by a threat, then you shouldn't have a bounty as an interdiction is only a fine and should be payable at the CG station. Also it could be worth doing some pirating away from the CG system as many ships need to go from system to system to fill there hold (could be fun shadowing commanders to see where they go using the ingame tools) , if you pirate them outside of the CG system, then there will be no bounty in the CG system allowing you to land and dispose of your stolen/given goods as you see fit.
I think it should be sellable on the black market or a fence but not as good a price as you would get at the commodities market.
True, but again, if have a bounty (because of using a limpet on the last trader), and then interdict another and then abandon some cargo, you now have Xt of legal and Xt of illegal. You go to the station and can only hand in the Xt of illegal goods (on the black market). Seems a bit daft.
Why on earth couldn't you sell those legal goods on the black market (if you don;t have access to the Commodity Market)?
And yes, if you can find a common jump point one system out, that might be useful, but I can imagine CMDRs quickly simply changing their route?
Thats if it is a few tons of cargo. What kind of a pirate only has an 10t hold. Not a very good one in my view. Also 8t could be a lot for a hauler or sidewinder pilot. Why pirate a T9 when you can get the same from a measly hauler. Make some sense man. If you are going to interdict a T6 and above make sure you have some decent cargo space yourself.
Isn't that implicitly what the black market already does? ie: I thought if you sold illegal goods on the black market, you got a lower price than via the commodity market?
Or am I mistaken?
Anyone able to clarify this? Would 1t of illegal Gold sell for less on the black market than the 1t of legal Gold on the Commodity Market?
It's not down to the pirate's cargo space, it's down to how much they can get?
Have you used a Hatchbreaker Limpet? Fire one at a T9 with 400T oboard and then an Asp with just 20T onboard, and what do you think you'll get out? The same... And not much at that!
PLUS, and worse still, there's then the issue of simply picking up the cargo due to the current poor mechanics. It's spread over a huge area, and slow to pick up (even with numerous limpet contollers). And then depending on security levels you might only have time to pick up a few tons before you're underfire from security services.
So yes, if you can use a hatch breaker and get far into double figures of collected cargo, you're doing well TBH!
So before throwing jibes like, "Make some sense man." And talking about how inconvenient it is to lose 10-20t of cargo out of numerous thousands... Maybe, just maybe, consider what the true issues are...? Sheesh!
Note: And don't forget now, given even the above issues for pirates, we're talking about them now also losing station facilities, which as long as they can sell the cargo isn't too bad at least. But they'll need to go elsewhere to repair and re-arm, which I guess I'm happy with. Just as long they can at least hand in that poxy tiny rediculous amount of low paying cargo they do manage to get!
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You shouldn't be able to sell any old goods on the black market.
I would add another contact - Fence: where you can sell any goods stolen or otherwise but at a big reduction in price as they are doing you a big favour. Black markets should be only for illegal goods (not stolen), such as drugs, weapons etc whatever is illegal in that jurisdiction, basically smuggling.
There should be black markets or fence in anarchy/pirate systems as everything should be sellable in the commodities list, with higher demand goods giving above the normal higher demand prices to make pirating a bit more lucrative due to the risks involved.
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Then that needs to change then to make them better. Do you still need to take down shields with hatchbreakers, thought there was a change to that?
What ever the mechanic, there needs to be a method to sell legal goods when you do not have access to the Commodity Market.
For me introducing a single IF condition to the existing game to mean you can then sell legal goods (as well as illegal) in the Black Market (for less than the Commodity) market seems like an easy win.
ie: Quite probably a couple of IF conditions, done.
Well sorry, but if piracy is "too hard" for you, then perhaps you should consider a more honest and profitable career.
Historically, very few pirates ever became rich enough to own their own ship, let alone a combat capable vessel - unless they acquired it through mutiny or murder (which is not the same as "owning" it).
Historically, very few pirates ever became rich enough to own their own ship, let alone a combat capable vessel - unless they acquired it through mutiny or murder (which is not the same as "owning" it).
Yes, it does need to be improved. Using Hatch Breakers at the moment, and collector limpets is a mess, and just makes an already poor paying, frustraing Piracy role, even less well paid and more frustrating.
As for Hatch Breaker, unfortunately one of Sando's changes was to dumb them down, so they can go through shields. So piracy was in effect dumbed down. Aim fire, hatch breaker! Dull!
Instead, IMHO, if there are shields you should need to take them down to say 50% (2 bar), before you can lock a Hatch Breaker on. This then means a trader can heavily shield themselves if they want. And the pirate at least has a modicum of a job to do, to lower the shields a bit before employing a Hatch Breaker.
Why needlessly dress up this matter, only to try and insult? Odd!
It's not about hard? it's simply about balanced mechanics resulting in fun and reward!
On the subject of Hatch Breakers and collector limpets, they're basically terrible at their current application to be honest. ie: Meaning using them makes piracy clunky and hard to get even a reasonable amount of cargo out of a ship with 400+t on board.
And more importantly, on the issue of the new changes of losing facilities, as long as the black market (if there's one available) is still accessible (as Marra suggests), then that's hopefully alleviated my concerns. BUT, FD would IMHO then need to make sure if you cannot access the Commodity Market, and cargo you have, legal or illegal, can be sold on th Black Market. This seems logical and simple to me.
Yes as an easy option, but if you read the rest of my post you see it would have added another contact called a Fence where you could sell anything but not as good as the commodities market prices, which makes much more sense then the black market which really should be just for smuggling.
I don't want to see easy options added, I want to see more depth. The Fence contact could also give you missions to steal specific items from specific NPCs for a good price etc. Black Markets contacts should offer smuggling missions for certains commodities on the band list.
Shouldn't we want more depth instead of an easy fix.
What pirates need are tools to block or hamper high-jumps because you can always flee from a pirate. These should also be tools available to law enforcement to stop pirates from getting away.
I would like to see pretty much black market to be redesigned as contact in similar wane as Engineers. Current hot fix so influx of pirates in Anarchies would be decouple affect of using Black Market in Anarchy.
That would be better, and having to use the missiles to stop them from jumping away too, so that there are a number of ways to manage it. Could be nice to have a jammer utility module to delay security response times. But have it that the downside to that is that the module is illegal (only purchasable at anarchy systems) so if scanned you get a fine.
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If there's a more involved mechanics great... But a few weeks away from the release of Beyond, I'd settle for a couple of IF conditions added to the game to cater for it.
As the your list of cargo for the black market is show... Currently:-
IF (cargo.state = "ILLEGAL") show on black market
After my proposal:-
IF (cargo.state = "ILLEGAL" OR station.facilities = "OFF") show on black market
^ A very simply logic change. Could be as simple as something like that, maybe with a secondary condition around it's price if legal. Done!
Security responses at the moment are a weak point too. They turn up too much like clockwork IMHO. They need to be more random, and also, maybe even scale to what's happening.
eg: They're called for, but then say if hull is hit/damaged, a secondary call is in effect made which then may/maynot speed them up.
Just needs to feel more living/breathing, than clockwork.
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You get FSD reboot dumbfire missiles. So that is already in.
All this is going to do is drive PvP into the low security and anarchy systems where it should be.
PvP constantly in HIGH or MEDIUM security systems makes no sense at all.
Player combat will be fine! ganking and griefing will decrease I see no issues with these changes and there match more to Elite II and Elite III and the previous game mechanics than the current free for all.
PvP constantly in HIGH or MEDIUM security systems makes no sense at all.
Player combat will be fine! ganking and griefing will decrease I see no issues with these changes and there match more to Elite II and Elite III and the previous game mechanics than the current free for all.
Yep, maybe as a stop gap until they flesh out the pirating/crime side a bit more.