Mode switching for missions and Smeaton Orbital [200mill/hour]

[DuckTales]

Wow, such long thread. Let me make some considerations.

I can do a round trip worth 5K+/ton which nets me around 3 Mil in 5 minutes which completely disrupts the BGS creating a self-sustaining cycle because both minor faction's influence skyrocket due the profits, get to permaBoom, I get them to allied in 3 cycles and there is no way for another minor faction face such influence. What would be the way to turn such advantage for another minor faction? There aren't many options... then the most reasonable way would be doing missions. (Remember that the dominating minor faction has almost ALL the influence due this profits, causing other minor factions to be stationless/outpostless and unable to start a war/civil war).

Now, it takes almost 1 minute to load the mission or passenger screen, by the time it finally opens and I scan through it, if I had been in my cycle I would be around the middle of it, even then it is possible that I don't find a suitable mission that I am willing to do or worth my time or profit/ton (or even my ship/build). Then how much do you think the missions should be worth so that I bother?

But wait! The mission board shouldn't offer plenty of missions, don't have adequate missions escalated to my ship cargo/seats and we shouldn't be able to stack missions (even being able to have 20 active) nor they should be worth of my time (be profitable). Great design!

Then I am able to make 200 M/hour, but for this I need a ship that is worth at least 200 M and Elite rank. Really? Then what? It means that I am able to earn at most 20 rebuys/hour, because by that time money isn't worth anything but to pay the insurance. Then we should grind 1 rebuy/hour?

Then people, let's try and use our energy for making the game better: balancing it, creating more content and making it more enjoyable. We should try and create mechanics that turn the board flipping obsolete. Maybe by creating more diversified missions, or a more inteligent board that escalates the missions to the ship we are using, or offering plenty of "small stacks" missions so both small and big ships can fill their storage/seats. Both solutions are valid as both are design choices. Restrain it too much and the missions become useless and the BGS will die, consequently turning Powerplay unplayable and a complete stalemate.

Now what do people think of a good game? That we need to make repetitive tasks for minimum gains? That grind = fun? That time wasted on mindless repetitive tasks = content? Is Elite Dangerous a MMO?

What would happen if 100 CMDR's decided to wage a war in the same instance? By what I read it seems that the server cracked when people tried! Then NO, Elite Dangerous isn't a MMO and far from being PVP focused. It is more of a single player game with some multiplayer elements and able to play online open.

Not even Elite Dangerous is a simulator as stated previously by FD, and they chose not use realistic phisics due to it being "less fun".

Time spent in grinding and "climbing an insurmountable mountain" is time wasted that could be better invested in socializing with the community, trying new things, doing PVP, participating in the Powerplay or CG, playing with the BGS.

 

[GunnerBill]

When you say "in-game" do you mean actually PLAYING the Game...like I did last night...undertaking the CG by both dropping into the burning stations and investigating non-human signal sources, some resue Missions at the burning Stations then a little bit of anti-Thargoid Combat...(just an example from the last 24 hours...insert "your own trail" here as appropriate)
OR do you mean watching Netflix with the Game running in the bacground...making a hundred times what someone actually "playing" does...and consequently completely unbalancing the game/rate of progression/risk-reward-ratio and the Background Simulation?

Hilarious - Social Justice virtue signalling in a space game.

I’ve made 3 bn in the last two weeks of passenger running.

Mostly I watch Ice Hockey and chat with other Cmdrs. I have to say it’s been the most relaxing and enjoyable few ED sessions I’ve had in some time.

Saving pixel peasants ain’t for everyone.

As for the BGS? It ain’t much of a BGS if it lets us do this, or perhaps it’s supposed to?

 

[Muetdhiver]

I made 1B credit give or take with this. Netflix is quite a friend here.

Now I can buy a second annaconda for thargoid combat instead of moving all my modules arround when going for a BGS mission setup with the conda.

Sure, one could argue that one should make the money with "legit" AB trade routes which would insanely boring, no skill, extremely slow.
Passengers milk runs are instead insanely boring, no skill but fast. Much better IMO.

Make skill based activities pay half as much and people will do these instead of milk runs.

But asking people to do something equally skill less and boring but for a longer time is just stupid.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It really is OK and it's most definitely none of your business what they fly and how quickly they get it.

See post above and yes, it is my business because it impacts impression people get about the game.

Make skill based activities pay half as much and people will do these instead of milk runs.

Or, you know, make and fix these milk runs less...milky. That would work too.

As I said - perception.

 

[yianniv]

See post above and yes, it is my business because it impacts impression people get about the game.

What impression? that it's actually rewarding and you can focus on things you enjoy than the grind? Choice, people, choice. Let users choose their path. Please don't mind other people's perception if it doesn't affect your game directly.
I've said more in another post some pages above...
Just let people choose their path.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

What impression? that it's actually rewarding and you can focus on things you enjoy than the grind? Choice, people, choice. Let users choose their path. Please don't mind other people's perception if it doesn't affect your game directly.
I've said more in another post some pages above...
Just let people choose their path.

Path has to fall within design for it to work. Otherwise it is a mockery. 200m/h is certainly bordering with absurdity.

 

[Latent Buzzard]

See post above and yes, it is my business because it impacts impression people get about the game.

Putting aside the sheer assumed entitlement of your post, where do you stand on your attempts to tell people how they should and shouldn't play giving people a bad impression of the game ?

 

[Hasaf]

I know people are going to hate on this for taking a stab at their cash-cow income in the game, but this is honestly just silly.

1. Set your ship up with all Economy Passenger Cabins.
2. Fly to Allen Hub in UPSILON AQUARII.
3. Stack Passenger missions going to Smeaton Orbital in LTT 9360.
4. Switch between Open/Group/Solo to get fresh missions on the board until you either have 20 missions or your passenger cabins are full.
5. When full fly to Smeaton (takes 40 minutes to fly)

With a Beluga, Anaconda, Cutter, Corvette being passenger fitted you are making roughly 200 million profit per hour (40 minute flight + 20 minutes for the return trip + modeswitching for missions).

I know that there are about 50 pages of responses to this; but I want to point out that this is not paying 200M per hour, and it is fun.

I have estimated what I am getting, it is closer to 30-40M/hour. So, yes, I am definitely making credits faster than bulk cargo trading, which, after doing that for about a year, has gotten a bit old anyways. Second, to fill my python I am going to about six different ports for passengers, ferrying passengers between them as I do so. The result is that I am doling quite a bit of load balancing. Then there are the constant interdiction on that long super-cruise.

Over all, I am enjoying these hauls. Yes, the fact that they pay enough that I am able to do what I want is also an improvement. Frankly, the constant picking up pennies when hauling cargo was getting a bit old. As it was, the only way to make reasonable credits in this game was to fly as a shooter of some sort. I prefer to take a more pacifist approach.

So, yes, being able to see a fair payout, compared to other things I have done, is an attraction. The payout allows me to do and try things that I could not otherwise do. Add to that, the process of getting the passengers (from several different stations) creates a bit of load balancing complexity. Overall, I am enjoying the Smeaton run; eliminating it would detract from the game for me.

When you say "in-game" do you mean actually PLAYING the Game...like I did last night...undertaking the CG by both dropping into the burning stations and investigating non-human signal sources, some resue Missions at the burning Stations then a little bit of anti-Thargoid Combat...(just an example from the last 24 hours...insert "your own trail" here as appropriate)

Having a healthy credit reserve allows me to enjoy those very things. Not having a cash reserve left me not doing those things because every action left me worried about the payout from everything I did. Those burning station rescue missions didn't really pay much; as such, I stopped doing them to get back to the credit grind. But now that I have discovered a way to build up a reserve quickly, I am taking part in many more of these, low pay-out but fun, activities in the game.

Having enough credits adds to the game for me.

 

[Muetdhiver]

See post above and yes, it is my business because it impacts impression people get about the game.



Or, you know, make and fix these milk runs less...milky. That would work too.

As I said - perception.

Would fix nothing. I mean : milk run ~100M/h
Thargoid combat : 2M/h

The problem is that the game rewards low skill time consuming tasks the most, and high skill immersive stuff gets the shaft.

Yes milk runs need to be nerfed. But something else has to change. There is a reason people flock to these : good money, despite being zero fun.

If we had good money + good fun, no one would go for the good money + zero fun option.

There are several problems that get conflated together, fixing only one will not fix the game. At all.

1) Board flipping to get desired missions : I do that a lot when playing the BGS (though more like station A (solo/open) => station B (solo/open) => ect => loop)
It's the only way to get enough mining missions for example. Why are there no missions asking for larger quantities and producing larger influence swings ?
Board flipping is a crutch against poor mission board generation. Fix mission generation to match what the player is searching to some extent => fix board flipping.

2) Milk runs caused by poor testing of the mission reward generation. Seriously, test all parameters from 0 to max and see if things go South. Use logistic functions to cap the rewards.

3) Low skill time consuming busiwork is rewarded the most, while immersive high skill stuff is rewarded the least. Flip it arround. Add high end missions with difficulty equal to SS rating 5/6/7 with
rewards in the 10's of M.

 

[jasonbirder]

To those people talking about letting players choose what they do...isn't that argument a bit of a straw man...
When you bang the drum for allowing"people to play the game their own way" giving people "the freedom to choose their own path" allowing players "to blaze their own trail" etc etc...you're pushing against an open door...
I've not seen a single PERSON suggesting long-range passenger missions should be removed from the game...or for deleting runs out to Hutton/Allen Hub etc etc and feel free to point to posts that DO
Nobody is suggesting those missions shouldn't exist...if players want to do a long run out to a station for a change of pace...so they can watch an episode of Vikings on Amazon, pop a couple of cold ones or just chat to other commanders on discord...th n that's ALL GOOD...
Its being suggested that the rewards for them need trimming back...and MAY I politely suggest THAT is the problem...NOT that some players are passionate about long supercruise flights....but that people want to EARN HUGE AMOUNTS of credits quickly, easily and in a risk free manner...
If the tier awards for the recent CGs had been halved...would people have stopped doing them? Probably not, fighting Thargoids, running into the burning stations, scooping escape pods up from under Cyclops/Medusa/Basilisks is fun Gameplay in and of itself...NOT merely a credit hosepipe...hell! I'd do it if there was NO monetary reward...but long range passenger runs...9 times out of 10 you're just doing it for the money...
So when arguing AGAINST rebalancing the credit awards...at least have the decency of being honest...you don't want the monetary rewards to be proportionate to the monetary rewards for other in game activities because you LIKE there being any easy way to earn insane amounts of credit and make any act of choice in buying equipping ships or consequence in terms of losing ships null and void...NOT because you want to play your own way...or blaze your own trail...

The issue here is a simple one...difficult for me as a Frontier Fanboi to say...but simply because the mission reward algorithm is programmed in a lazy fashion...it scales linearly with distance to the destination station/outpost NOT logarithmically
So if the travel times is ten times as long...the reward is (simplifying and ignoring other factors) ten times as large...something that would NEVER occur....
Allow me to use a real life example...I catch the plane to Belfast Monday morning - it's about 200 miles distant and my ticket will be about £200....if I go on holiday to New York it's about 3000 miles...at least 15 times as far...will the airfare be £3000?!? Of course not...because the further you travel...the cost per mile comes down significantly....
All Frontier need to do is make it...ten times as far...twice the money...hundred times as far...three times the money....problem solved...simple!!!!

 

[Latent Buzzard]

Stuff

Says that it's not about telling other people what they can do. Tells other players they shouldn't be allowed to make decent amounts of money using a system deliberately developed into the game.

You just couldn't make it up.

 

[jasonbirder]

I'm assuming you're directly equating insane amounts of MONEY with PLAYING the game?

Or feel free to explain what the difference is between flying out to a distant station and earning 1 million credits and flying out to the same station and earning 100 million credits is....

 

[CookieJarviz]

I find Elite more fun to play when having loads of money. It allows me to test things. Expand my play style. and getting killed by a greifer? big deal. Money that i just lost can be regained. Its not bad. I dont think it will effect the game in the long run.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Says that it's not about telling other people what they can do. Tells other players they shouldn't be allowed to make decent amounts of money using a system deliberately developed into the game.

You just couldn't make it up.

imagine a game about collecting cars........ you earn money ingame and then choose which car you really want to spend that money on.... you can then choose to upgrade the exhaust or the engine or have it lightened.... but its expensive so you have to really weigh up which you want most... its about compromises because you cant afford it all and it will be an hrs game time before you can afford to upgrade the next part, and 10 hrs before you can even THINK about buying another car..

then imagine in a patch the company implemented a "print money here" and allowed you IF YOU WANTED to just buy every car and have every upgrade in the game right off the bat.

sure, I COULD still scrimp away earning my money..... but can you not see how knowing that i could simply press a button and have access to everything right away would pull the rug from my play style somewhat?.

I am NOT saying you are playing the game wrong..... but what I am saying is you ARE totally wrong with your conclusion that having endless money printing missions has zero effect on other player styles. for better or for worse it absolutely does!.

I totally think there should be the chance of finding super high paying missions either by luck or good judgement...... but, having them farmable for months on end removes any sense of achievement finding them, or any sense of "winning" for lucking out and getting offered one. These money printers make actual proper gold rush mechanics like in the dev diaries pointless.

 

[jasonbirder]

Here's a question then, to those people defending the high payout to low risk/low effort ratios of some missions...

IF in a similar vein to "Donation Missions" at some stations...there existed "Quantative Easing Missions" at some stations...where the Federation/Imperium/Alliance Gives out 1/10/100 Million credits to a commander...so they'll spend it on ships/outfitting/cargo etc and boost the local economy....would you hit that button and take that payout and boost your balance for no-player input whatsoever?

 

[Muetdhiver]

imagine a game about collecting cars........ you earn money ingame and then choose which car you really want to spend that money on.... you can then choose to upgrade the exhaust or the engine or have it lightened.... but its expensive so you have to really weigh up which you want most... its about compromises because you cant afford it all and it will be an hrs game time before you can afford to upgrade the next part, and 10 hrs before you can even THINK about buying another car..

then imagine in a patch the company implemented a "print money here" and allowed you IF YOU WANTED to just buy every car and have every upgrade in the game right off the bat.

sure, I COULD still scrimp away earning my money..... but can you not see how knowing that i could simply press a button and have access to everything right away would pull the rug from my play style somewhat?.

I am NOT saying you are playing the game wrong..... but what I am saying is you ARE totally wrong with your conclusion that having endless money printing missions has zero effect on other player styles. for better or for worse it absolutely does!.

Except ED is not about collecting ship (well, a bit), but about flying them. When the grind reaches 100h to access a ship through hours of low skill gameplay,
I feel a bit lost as what is so good about this sad state of affairs.

The game has enough skill based content to support high reward high skill play. The justification for ED low-skill grind for credits to cover for lacking/barebone gameplay is evaporating. Fast.

1) Kill milk runs.
2) Reward skills with missions in the 10's of M crédits.
3) Improve mission gen so that we can toss the board flipping crutch out of the window.

But player in high end ships should be able to pull 10's of M / h.

 

[yianniv]

I can only speak personally, so: I expect I will eventually stop playing this game (although I honestly don't see it for the ... unforseeable future), as I stopped playing those I enjoyed in the past. What I'd like at that point is to do so with a feeling of contentment and achievement, not frustration. So, if the game allows me to follow my play style, which now could be earning money or exploring the deepest ends of the galaxy, this will build the achievement I seek.

As i already said, it's about choice to choose my own path, either blazing or simmering. A path is a path. Choice! Players shouldn't be punished for earning money, when money is the means to more hardware.

That's my point of view. And don't forget that some players (me included) are grown ups with jobs, family and little free time, so it's precious to spend...

 

[Latent Buzzard]

Stuff

The difference is that my option gives people the choice of either play style. Your option doesn't and that's the point. I really find it amazing that so many people say they want this really hardcore play style but that they will only play that way if they are forced to and won't play that way if they have a choice.

It's the reason that people go on about "balance" but wouldn't accept it if other missions had their pay increased to match passenger runs.

Let people have the choice and if the "proper way of playing" is so important to you then you do that. Other people get to play their way and everyone is happy.

 

[MarkAusten]

Just cant fathom out why no one would not have visited and enjoyed a Combat Zone in the 2 days they've had the game :-D

I know that was a tongue in cheek comment, but some of us can't fight our way out of a wet paper bag, let alone a combat zone!

To some of us, combat just isn't interesting. Out of all the engineers, the one who wants Dangerous combat rating is going to be the last I unlock. I'm already Elite in the other two categories. Apart from when I'm interdicted, I hardly ever deploy hardpoints.

Exactly. So much so that I don't have weapons either offensive or defensive. I just run.

 

[MarkAusten]

Path has to fall within design for it to work. Otherwise it is a mockery. 200m/h is certainly bordering with absurdity.

Only to you. I find it quite enjoyable. There again, I don't play the way you do nor do you play my way. Great game this!