Beyond C&P - Must admit I'm slightly concerned about PvP piracy outcome

[NeilF]

Sorry for sound too rude, English is not my native language.

But with no penalties for criminal actions that oversized number of murders and other classes people don't want to play in open, and if it is going on it could be irreversible.

And sincerely, frontier new punishment system is not too negative that you believe. Remember that pirates don't have a beautiful and grateful life, Somalian pirates could be an example.

I'll take that as a retraction. Thank you! - When I get told I'm (somehow) the cause of people going to SOLO, when I'm so very anti-toxic gameplay, I take that quite to heart!

Now back on topic, I'm all up for punishment and balances and outcomes. I've even suggested "illegal" destruction in anarchy systems needs to be included in any mechanic. BUT, in the topic hand, which is the simple/small question of if you have a fine/bounty should you be able to access the Black Market at a station? I think this needs to be a yes for a number of simple/small gameplay reasons.

It's a tiny issue! Quite literally probably just a couple of IF conditions in the code, but it will make/break a number of little things, and one more major thing being, can pirates still participate in CGs? Because if the answer is no, the one major mechanic in the game that offers pirates some sort of go-to gameplay, is being taken away. Which in my book is bad!

So again, what's wrong with a criminal being able to access the criminal network (Black Market) of the station?

 

[SP_Predicador]

In my opinion, wanting to be a pirate without consequences is not DangerousTM. If I would like to be one, I would like to be a full gameplay experience. Piracy today is so simple and boring. The problem is, piracy as a job/rol/profesion is a disaster, economically and game mechanics speaking about, and for some people had evolved to be near trolling/griefing/ganking and so on. I really like the way Frontier is heading. I use to be, a peaceful blockade runner, who were tried to be engaged without any money or power play or bgs excuse. Targeted by other players that aren't put themselves in peril. Because be a killer in this games is no DamgerousTM and have zero consequences.

I hope thar c&p develop even more, be more realistic and immersive, putting and end to the today useless for majority fun and immersion, anarchy. But I also hope that some game mechanics around piracy, true piracy, will be developed to bring a piracy rol both more coherent and funny than is today. Theres should be piracy, but a professional one.

 

[NeilF]

In my opinion, wanting to be a pirate without consequences is not DangerousTM.

But no one is suggesting that though?




If you consider the main question in this thread? If you go to a station, and have a fine/bounty, so cannot access many of the stations facilities (as you're a criminal). Should you be able to (still) access the Black Market there?

Does it seem unfair/unreasonable for someone who's a criminal to still have access to criminal contacts (the Black Market)? If so, for what game benefit?

Personally if you can't access it, it just seems a needless penalty (I can give you a couple of little example if you want). Yes, none of them are game breakers, but they vary to significant enough to make me raise this question!?

 

[NeilF]

The Black Market is available in the previewed test build:

https://youtu.be/4ocPr8DlBQs?t=27m49s

Sorry, carefully watched that. And although I can see "CONTACTS" is still available (when you have a fine/bounty), I can't see them going in to that option to then see if any "BLACK MARKET" is then still (importantly) available?

 

[Jukelo]

Sorry, carefully watched that. And although I can see "CONTACTS" is still available (when you have a fine/bounty), I can't see them going in to that option to then see if any "BLACK MARKET" is then still (importantly) available?

It's at 27:46

 

[NeilF]

It's at 27:46

OK! You get 27 points for that! FANTASTIC! Thanks!

Now just need to make FD make the tiny change so you can sell "legal" cargo on the Black Market if you don't have access to the Commodity Market, and sorted - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...cilities-sell-LEGAL-cargo-on-the-Black-Market

 

[Manticore]

Issue is killing. PvP piracy might see a downturn, but after proper consequences way piracy works might get improved, along with low hanging fruits.

You're right there.

In the real world killing and piracy are crimes; it's that simple.

Playing those roles in game is just reflecting that.

Play about with it in Beta, its only a week away, i thinbk that the position of Anarchy systems will become more important for pirates, as well as players trading between locations.

Good point.

 

[SP_Predicador]

But no one is suggesting that though?




If you consider the main question in this thread? If you go to a station, and have a fine/bounty, so cannot access many of the stations facilities (as you're a criminal). Should you be able to (still) access the Black Market there?

Does it seem unfair/unreasonable for someone who's a criminal to still have access to criminal contacts (the Black Market)? If so, for what game benefit?

Personally if you can't access it, it just seems a needless penalty (I can give you a couple of little example if you want). Yes, none of them are game breakers, but they vary to significant enough to make me raise this question!?

I agree that with the c&p system, should be done ways of working in the criminal side of the Galaxy. But as penalties and bounties are not and will not be enough to stop griefers/gankers, a harder life quality is the best way to discourage the killers that use to be living so easily in the game. I can't imagine somalies privates attacking New York by Sea and after that going to Boston to refill their ships. In Elite: D I expect same thing, but is not what we have today.

Maybe not only anarchic ports, but tortoise, antilles and so on kind of safe ports, with adapted services for them, yes, please, as it should be.

 

[NeilF]

I agree that with the c&p system, should be done ways of working in the criminal side of the Galaxy. But as penalties and bounties are not and will not be enough to stop griefers/gankers, a harder life quality is the best way to discourage the killers that use to be living so easily in the game. I can't imagine somalies privates attacking New York by Sea and after that going to Boston to refill their ships. In Elite: D I expect same thing, but is not what we have today.

Maybe not only anarchic ports, but tortoise, antilles and so on kind of safe ports, with adapted services for them, yes, please, as it should be.

One of my suggestions for habitual murder was to reduce the number of station/systems the individual had access to, so if they continued more and more would deny access. You can imagine after enough illegal destruction, they'd only have access to anarchy stations.

I like FDs ideas increased rebuy, as long as it proves effective I guess.

 

[Lecitron]

I'll take that as a retraction. Thank you! - When I get told I'm (somehow) the cause of people going to SOLO, when I'm so very anti-toxic gameplay, I take that quite to heart!

Now back on topic, I'm all up for punishment and balances and outcomes. I've even suggested "illegal" destruction in anarchy systems needs to be included in any mechanic. BUT, in the topic hand, which is the simple/small question of if you have a fine/bounty should you be able to access the Black Market at a station? I think this needs to be a yes for a number of simple/small gameplay reasons.

It's a tiny issue! Quite literally probably just a couple of IF conditions in the code, but it will make/break a number of little things, and one more major thing being, can pirates still participate in CGs? Because if the answer is no, the one major mechanic in the game that offers pirates some sort of go-to gameplay, is being taken away. Which in my book is bad!

So again, what's wrong with a criminal being able to access the criminal network (Black Market) of the station?

Frontier said that will be several kinds of bounties, maybe if your bounty is not for killing people allow you to participate in a cg. It is a supposition, we must play beta to confirm that.

About black market, there are various facts. First you can go outside of your ship, no one must recognize you because you are wanted.
Second, if you are wanted no one in a controlled station want to do business with you because it is a high risk. The faction that rule the station, his HOME, could accuse him for help a wanted criminal.
No doubt there are more.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

No crime or punishment will stop me or my team. First day of the release we are going to massacare Eravate.

Bring it on. The salt.

Out of curiosity, is there any reason you're saying/doing this other than to get a rise out of the people you don't like? Seems to me that in true juvenile fashion, you're just acting out for acting out's sake. Now if there is something deeper that I'm missing here please enlighten me, but from my vantage point you're doing it purely as some kind of impotent strike against forum posters you don't like.

 

[NeilF]

Frontier said that will be several kinds of bounties, maybe if your bounty is not for killing people allow you to participate in a cg. It is a supposition, we must play beta to confirm that.

About black market, there are various facts. First you can go outside of your ship, no one must recognize you because you are wanted.
Second, if you are wanted no one in a controlled station want to do business with you because it is a high risk. The faction that rule the station, his HOME, could accuse him for help a wanted criminal.
No doubt there are more.

Huh? It seems to have been shown now that the Black Market IS available even if you have a Fine/Bounty. So congratulations FD on making a good logical choice!

I'd just like them to enure CMDRs are backed into a slight annoying position then with not being able to sell legal cargo (as they can't access the Commodity MArket). Hence my reques to then allow CMDRs to just sell legal cargo (for a loss) on the Black Market. This is important and is a minor change - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...cilities-sell-LEGAL-cargo-on-the-Black-Market

 

[Lecitron]

Huh? It seems to have been shown now that the Black Market IS available even if you have a Fine/Bounty. So congratulations FD on making a good logical choice!

There is no discussion then, see in beta.

 

[Notwyn]

It should do this in all the modes...not just Open. So MoM™ better have her A game running...because the only way this whole thing works is if the NPC's are truly harsh in Anarchy systems.

And, the security forces are truly harsh in secure systems. The higher the security, the harsher the response.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think one thing is guaranteed - Crime and Punishment will be most tested thing in new beta. So while concerns are good thing (and devs have actually noted this and they have some time to tune things even without fixing piracy properly) going in circles what will be true and what's not - including childish griefing threats - is a bit pointless at this point.

It should do this in all the modes...not just Open. So MoM™ better have her A game running...because the only way this whole thing works is if the NPC's are truly harsh in Anarchy systems.

MoM says this

Me too...

In response of seeing ATF in action.

 

[Fendalton]

All these people saying that Anarchy systems should give way more rewards for piracy when we still have the Solo / Private Group issue is laughable.

Fix combat logging first. Anarchy systems should be high risk high reward. Not high risk high AltF4

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

All these people saying that Anarchy systems should give way more rewards for piracy when we still have the Solo / Private Group issue is laughable.

Fix combat logging first. Anarchy systems should be high risk high reward. Not high risk high AltF4

The high reward could be for traders as well if they are willing to risk it. It wouldn't just be for pirates.

 

[Rampant]

Now on the actual point that pirates take away from your fun: they don't, they add to the fun, if Frontier thought getting pirated couldn't be fun it wouldn't be part of the multiplayer experience.

HaHaHaHaHa. NO.


In the current construct piracy is not really any fun and on a sliding scale goes from maybe a very small bit of fun towards deeply not fun.

If it sounds such fun for those who want to pirate, then those people would also be traders looking to be pirated. But that is clearly not happening. Those who want to pirate JUST WANT TO PIRATE and also have big Credit rewards out of it. So tell me again how much fun it is to be pirated, if you're not willing to take up the role yourselves. Ha. I have you rumbled. What you said is therefore a load of tosh.

Adding to the fun, my foot. LOL.

The reason for the sliding scale is that the consequences aren't logical or appropriate. Particularly when you consider some people's thoughts on piracy that 95%+ of the time they see end in trader destruction. No it doesn't need to be destruction, and yet many play piracy that way with deliberate forethought.

Cheerz

Mark H

 

[Marra Morgan]

HaHaHaHaHa. NO.


In the current construct piracy is not really any fun and on a sliding scale goes from maybe a very small bit of fun towards deeply not fun.

If it sounds such fun for those who want to pirate, then those people would also be traders looking to be pirated. But that is clearly not happening. Those who want to pirate JUST WANT TO PIRATE and also have big Credit rewards out of it. So tell me again how much fun it is to be pirated, if you're not willing to take up the role yourselves. Ha. I have you rumbled. What you said is therefore a load of tosh.

Adding to the fun, my foot. LOL.

The reason for the sliding scale is that the consequences aren't logical or appropriate. Particularly when you consider some people's thoughts on piracy that 95%+ of the time they see end in trader destruction. No it doesn't need to be destruction, and yet many play piracy that way with deliberate forethought.

Cheerz

Mark H

I play the role of both pirate and trader.

What you said is therefore a load of tosh.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

One tool that would be great for pirates......or more an update to an existing tool.....is the ability to use Manifest Scanners, in a limited fashion, whilst in Supercruise. A scan would only tell you if a ship contained cargo at all....& possibly if any of that cargo is legal/illegal. Obviously there would need to be ways for pilots to thwart such scans, like running your ship colder to break the scan before completion, or activating your ECM to break the scan. Things that can make Supercruise more exciting & engaging, whilst also helping to explain those pilots talking about "all that juicy cargo!"