[Crime and Punishment] Why ATR ships will be useless?

[The Chairmaker]

A possible solution would be that if the network connection drops after you have been engaged by ATR, the game assumes the ATR destroyed you when next you log in, and presents you with the rebuy screen.

It will be interesting to see if people just log out as soon as the message re ATR incoming appears and if this then cancels the ATR attack when you next log back in.

 

[daman]

just to point out - one of the core drivers for the ATR is to prevent players from manipulating the BGS by murdering system ships without much resistance. this solution will make that gameplay much harder.

 

[Gortron]

Ok:
https://i.imgur.com/9iFlvlO.jpg

Now your turn:
Point a source where is written i do need to have a reason. In fact i have a reason. My reason is to fill my cup with salty tears. Then consume a frustration of victims

At the end, its only a videogame, i can roleplay a psycho bad guy. Elite need bad guys to be Dangerous. I am doing a nothing more and nothing less, than NPCs.

You can role play being a psycho bad guy all you like but the game needs to have consequences for that game play choice or it is only fun for psycho bad guys. By far the saltiest tears at the moment are from people upset that people can quit the game whilst being ganked, that the game modes allow people to avoid PVP entirely and from those that don't like FDEV trying to stop seal clubbing.

Perhaps if ATR ships prove to be useless then as soon as notoriety reaches a certain level the player should just be plonked into the rebuy screen. Perhaps then people will understand why having someone else impose their play style isn't fun for everyone?

 

[UmbraRex]

I think that once ATR is triggered, they have to follow targets into supercruise. If a low wake is enough to escape them, they will have little value.

They need a tech device (insert handwavium here) that prevents a cmdr from entering supercruise, give them FSD reset missiles as standard loadout.

Make it only work within a certain range, and make them fast enough that it takes a dedicated speed build to successfully get away from them.

 

[GG7]

If that's what it takes to get a fix or at least partial solution for combat logging, I'm all for it.

Glad to hear it.

But you should also know that your brethren combat log far more than any other player group in the game, bar none. I don't think the whole ATR thing is going to go over well with them.

But hey... If it gets them to rage quit the game and find some other IP to haunt instead, "I am all for it!"

 

[Father Cool]

*sigh*

The ganking melarky has gone on too long. Lets not talk uber ATR ships that kill gankers and whether they have time etc etc, let the pilots federation just ban murderers from any station in the system (or ones run by the same faction, in fact send uber bounty hunter NPCs after them at every turn) that the crimes are committed in and if the target is in a none anarchy system when destroyed (and the target has no bounty on him of course so its clearly just lols murder) then the murderer gets an instant fine of the value of the destroyed ship (not insurance, the full value). Add a little flag that say the victim has to be killed by weapons fire to stop people ramming you and killing themselves for lols and to peck at your bank balance and hey presto. I'm sure they'd think twice shooting down someones pride and joy if each kill was costing them 100 mil or more.

To make piracy work the coms should be factored in and if a request was made and refused by the target when some cargo could be dropped then the target is fair game. Piracy is very broken though at this point anyway due to ships being able to just jump away so the ganking issue takes priority imo.

 

[Kaocraft]

Glad to hear it.

But you should also know that your brethren combat log far more than any other player group in the game, bar none. I don't think the whole ATR thing is going to go over well with them.

But hey... If it gets them to rage quit the game and find some other IP to haunt instead, "I am all for it!"

Who do you think my brethren are? What player group do you think we belong to? We don't Combat Log. Even if we wanted to combat Log, we'd be unable to : we're in Colonia and there's practically no-one else around, ever.

edit: I think you have me confused with Kyukoshin

 

[Marra Morgan]

Why piracy is dead in game?
- Because nobody sane will bother of someone else cargo when is able to do 500mln/hour by passenger money exploit. Zero effort, no risk.

I must be insane then (or just enjoying my own fun in a video game).

Didn't bother reading the rest.

 

[Straker]

At the end, its only a videogame, i can roleplay a psycho bad guy. Elite need bad guys to be Dangerous. I am doing a nothing more and nothing less, than NPCs.

Frontier, by design, have created a mode in the game (ie Open) where this sort of behaviour is accepted. Therefore, based on gameplay, I cannot argue that you are doing the wrong thing because you are simply engaging in activity that is permitted, by design.

The only problem with your reasoning is that to some extent it isn't "just a video game" because there are real people and emotions involved. If it were just NPCs then you could rightly say "It's just a video game." You are affecting real people so the results of your behaviour are still connected with reality. I personally choose not to become too attached to the affects of griefing on me but you simply cannot escape the fact that you do not operate in a realm that is not connected with real people. Your actions are connected to real people and thus you do not operate in simply a disconnected void.

In the end, if you will not act in a pro-social capacity then we can't really complain about it, as the game permits this sort of behaviour and there are game modes where anti-social players can be excluded. So, to some extent, there is actually nothing for us all to argue about.

 

[Stealthie]

If they pull me, then i will low wake. If they attack me, then i will low wake. If they interdict me, then i will avoid it. We can do not give a care of ATR entirely. They do not need to be annoying. They need to be extremely deadly.

I will as i am doing it now when police and other players want to pull me out. When i will focus on ganking, then i will focus my team on victim. Interdict, few seconds, job done, low wake. Thats how ganking works. ATR may be only a bit annoying. If they will not destroy me or strongly damage my ship in few seconds, IF they catch me, then i can do not care, as i can do not care of anyone else now.

I'm sorry but I just flat-out don't believe this.

If the ATR ships are doing a half-decent job I don't believe that a player will be able to enter a system in SC, target a player, catch up to them and interdict them before the ATR ships do the same thing to them.

This will/should be compounded by the fact that a player is unlikely to be daft enough (or unobservant enough) to not see another player ship alter course, deploy hardpoints and attempt to get behind them without taking action of prevent an interdiction, which will also give the ATR ships time to do their thing.

Basically, if you're flying a ship that can be destroyed in a few seconds, and/or you allow yourself to be interdicted within a few seconds then you probably deserve all you get.
If, OTOH, you're capable of being a bit slippery then it should give the ATR ships time to do their thing, in which case it doesn't really matter how powerful they are as long as they distract gankers from attacking other players at will.

 

[Toumal]

Basically, if you're flying a ship that can be destroyed in a few seconds, and/or you allow yourself to be interdicted within a few seconds then you probably deserve all you get.
If, OTOH, you're capable of being a bit slippery then it should give the ATR ships time to do their thing, in which case it doesn't really matter how powerful they are as long as they distract gankers from attacking other players at will.

If you fly anything below a python, and you're not kitted out for PvP specifically (and I do mean a PvP centric loadout and engineering upgrades to go with it), or you run a courier or impeagle with dirty drive tuning, you will be dead within 10 seconds, and your opponent can jump out before you even see the "CMDR XXX killed you" message. Any ship outfitted for mining probably isn't going to survive longer than 10 seconds. Any Hauler is toast in three. Do all Hauler pilots "deserve it"? Is it really fly a corvette or stay home?

 

[Stealthie]

If you fly anything below a python, and you're not kitted out for PvP specifically (and I do mean a PvP centric loadout and engineering upgrades to go with it), or you run a courier or impeagle with dirty drive tuning, you will be dead within 10 seconds, and your opponent can jump out before you even see the "CMDR XXX killed you" message. Any ship outfitted for mining probably isn't going to survive longer than 10 seconds. Any Hauler is toast in three. Do all Hauler pilots "deserve it"? Is it really fly a corvette or stay home?

A Hauler is eminently capable of evading interdiction and is plenty agile and fast enough to make things difficult for a ganker.

If somebody is flying a Hauler and allows themselves to be interdicted within 10 seconds, and then allows themselves (as a result of an ill-considered loadout) to be destroyed within 10 seconds then at least part of the responsibility is their own.

My bubble taxi is an unshielded Hauler and I am rarely interdicted while flying it (I'm a master of the art of running away) and, in the 3 or 4 times I have been interdicted in it, I've never been destroyed as a result of being prepared to high-wake and being able to evade incoming fire for long enough to jump away.

 

[Ddtdmbow]

My point is ATR need to destroy my ship and do it quickly. If they will have delay or i will be able to run, then i will run in few seconds with ZERO damage. I can do it now from station and i will be albe to do it from ATR. A gank of victim will appear before ATR will arrive.
So i will gank at one CG, move to another CG, gank there, move to jameson, gank there, move to pleiades, ruins. There are a lot of places to gank. At the end, i can destroy ship (i can earn 500mln/h, any money punishment is nothing for me), then start circle of pain again.

I don’t think that is how it will work. Noteriety doesn’t reset completely when you die and I believe ATR response is based on noteriety, not your current bounty.

 

[Toumal]

If somebody is flying a Hauler and allows themselves to be interdicted within 10 seconds, and then allows themselves (as a result of an ill-considered loadout) to be destroyed within 10 seconds then at least part of the responsibility is their own.

I won't even bother looking up video proof for the contrary. "Just be better" is not an opinion that can be swayed with evidence, because no matter the evidence, the same argument can just be brought up again.

I've been destroyed in an unengineered but fully shielded Type 6 in less than 10 seconds. Same with a fully shielded hauler. I'm not an ace pilot by any means, but don't you think that shifting all blame on everyone who isn't a crack pilot with a combat build is a little silly? Is anything but fully engineered shields an "ill-considered loadout"?

And for the record, I never counted interdictions in this timing. Was it even stated that ATR ships would already be dispatched as soon as an interdiction begins? I highly doubt that and my statements assume that the 10 seconds were counted from the first shot in normal space.

 

[Stealthie]

I won't even bother looking up video proof for the contrary. "Just be better" is not an opinion that can be swayed with evidence, because no matter the evidence, the same argument can just be brought up again.

I've been destroyed in an unengineered but fully shielded Type 6 in less than 10 seconds. Same with a fully shielded hauler. I'm not an ace pilot by any means, but don't you think that shifting all blame on everyone who isn't a crack pilot with a combat build is a little silly? Is anything but fully engineered shields an "ill-considered loadout"?

And for the record, I never counted interdictions in this timing. Was it even stated that ATR ships would already be dispatched as soon as an interdiction begins? I highly doubt that and my statements assume that the 10 seconds were counted from the first shot in normal space.

Frankly, the only time a player should be interdicted by another player is when they allow themselves to be, either deliberately or as a result of inattention.

The ATR ships are, apparently, tasked with eliminating "notorious" ships and they operate in SC so they will, hopefully, be able to intercept outlaws in SC and prevent them attacking other ships, as long as you can avoid interdiction for long enough to allow the ATR ship(s) to respond.

Course, if they do just cruise around, waiting for an attack to actually happen in a system filled with "notorious" CMDRs then, sure. That's going to be a PITA.
But that would also mean that the ATR ships aren't working in a competent manner.

 

[Toumal]

The ATR ships are, apparently, tasked with eliminating "notorious" ships and they operate in SC so they will, hopefully, be able to intercept outlaws in SC and prevent them attacking other ships, as long as you can avoid interdiction for long enough to allow the ATR ship(s) to respond.

That would indeed alleviate my concern. It'd be much more immersive too. Here's hoping that ATR ships do operate in SC as well. Plus it could add an element of strategy if the arrival time of ATR ships depended on SC distance, so players who stray from the shipping lanes would have to take more risks than those who stick to the well walked path.

 

[Stealthie]

Here's hoping that ATR ships do operate in SC as well.

So, erm, are ATR ships supposed to be in the game already?

It's just that I arrived back in my home system today, after a couple of months away, and I'm pretty sure the first ship I saw was a CM4 labelled as an "ATR Unit" or something like that.
I thought I'd taken a screengrab of it because I was going to ask what it was but it seems I didn't press the key properly or something. [sad]

If it was an ATR ship that I saw today, and they do end up operating like the ship I saw today was, they definitely do cruise around the systems in SC.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I'm looking forward to ATRs. If I'm alone and clean and get attacked by a wing, I can just stall until they arrive and turn the tables. The chance to win a 1v4 with the cops by my side is pretty exciting

 

[Quantis Trap]

They will not stop me or make me slower. I can with friends gank almost any ship below 10 seconds. Job will be done before they appear and they will be unable to even interdict me (relative mouse interdiction is unstoppable, thank you frontier for breaking another element of game)

Piracy:
#1 i will do a piracy if it will be worth my time risk and effort
#2 pirates sometimes killing people do not leave the witnesses.
#3 i do not care about being pirate. I can be if it will be smart, engaging and profitable, if not, then not. I like go be a murderer and i am feeding with a salt of your tears. Its a game, Its fun for me.

Entire pirate job need to be done in few seconds, before a victim will combat log. End of story about pirating.

OP, if you are so sure of all this, then I encourage you to devote some time in the beta to make sure you're right!

 

[Stealthie]

I'm looking forward to ATRs. If I'm alone and clean and get attacked by a wing, I can just stall until they arrive and turn the tables. The chance to win a 1v4 with the cops by my side is pretty exciting

I hope you're right about that.

Currently, if you get interdicted and then run (in normal space) the cops will arrive at your initial drop-out location, have a look around and if they can't detect your attacker (presumably they don't always have the best sensors) they'll just hang around and then wander off again.

On several occasions I've been messing around with an attacker, in my Viper, and I can see a pair of cop ships at the edge of my scanner but they, apparently, can't see me or my attacker.
If you're smart you can sometimes lead an attacker in a circle, back to your original drop-out position and the cops will intervene but it's usually simpler to just jump away.

The ATR ships need to be better than that.