Complain about the game's problems!

[Valorin]

Has a thought ever occurred to you, that maybe, just maybe, Frontier should have thought about it before promising things and taking money up front?

Case in point orrery map.

05-07-2013

under this image:

http://www.pointplay.net/folder_4/221/data_24/940.png

Frontier Developments wrote:



than sometime late 2017




how can you defend that? Why shouldn`t i point that out?

It's just a concept that has been ditched. It's nicer than what we have now and I would vote for Orreries anytime, but actually it's just a good looking navigation tool, not even a game feature. Nothing to defend here.

EDIT: also your post is not contextual to what you quoted, actually.

 

[Valorin]

Complaining tells them we don't like how they implemented something. It's certainly more constructive than what you are doing, which is complaining about people complaining. Please explain to me how what you're doing is constructive?

The idea is, to not say "DEEEEVS FIX THE GAAAAAIIME!!!!", but to point out what you don't like and why in a way that does not sound as if you're some gangster boss talking to his/her lackeys. Well, or a teen talking to his/her parents...

 

[Enderby]

The idea is, to not say "DEEEEVS FIX THE GAAAAAIIME!!!!", but to point out what you don't like and why in a way that does not sound as if you're some gangster boss talking to his/her lackeys. Well, or a teen talking to his/her parents...

Yeah but that's boring.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Admirable stance, but there's a small aspect you forget: a lot of people have been doing this since 2014 and started to have enough.

For example, lots of people joined the Beta on RNGineers and warned about what will happen. 2 years later? Small details are still out of wack and, depending on what we see on this evening's stream, we might get the confirmation that they will remain so.

Personally I started to have enough after the fixed/gimballed combat rebalance beta. Joined that one, tested as much as I had the time to, struggled to record video on my non-shadowplay card at the time, for later reviewing and objective feedback, and what was the result of that beta? Nada, nix.

No, I haven't forgot that people are upset. I've been upset at times too. I've just gotten over it because I, as a long time developer, understand the challenges and changes Frontier has confronted.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Well it seems that procedural generation isn't as amazing as it once was, when single developers can make entire galaxies using procedural generation it kind of takes the "ooh, ahh" away from FDEV.

Hey look we simulated the entire milky way....oh wait, one guy simulated an entire universe!

This statement evidences a basic misunderstanding of how various kinds of procedural generation work.

Yes, there are instances of procedural code generation techniques where entire words and/or galaxies can be generated by one random seed, but that technique is very very different (and primitive) in comparison to what Frontier has done.

For just a little more perspective on this take a look at this video: Discovery Scanner 1 - Creating a Galaxy with Dr Anthony Ross

 

[Quantis Trap]

If you're going to complain about people complaining, you could at least have listed some of the *real* complaints threads instead of those garbage tier ones.

You missed my point I guess.

 

[Quantis Trap]

...
In short: I think elite dangerous has a real problem with spreading itself too thinly, and too wide. I don’t think it’ll always stay that way, the beyond series is a good indication that they themselves recognise that, but that still doesn’t excuse any of the present issues in the game. Expecially because I and lots of others really, really want to love this game to death, but are constantly held back by a seemingly infinte hoard of bugs and instances of bad design. And we will constantly point those flaws out because their removal would allow us to give this game the love we want - thus giving rise to all the threads mentioned here.

If you think that then help out with the beta!

If you want perspective on what spread to thin / scope creak looks like in a space game, there are currently several better examples than Elite Dangerous. In comparison to them, ED is well managed in deed!

 

[Sysmon]

Luckily, the game development isn't a democratic process!

S

 

[Quantis Trap]

it's called "agile development" and is the new standard: no one is irreplaceable, it's all about 'the team', 'the definition of done' and 'adding value' in small bits, just like a coral reef grows,etc ...

problem is, software is not a coral reef. but that doesn't bother the industry in the slightest.

(it has a point. it works with (smallish) cohesive teams of highly motivated and talented people, with full transparency and openness. then again, *any* methodology works with such teams, which are scarce. in practice it tends to produce monstrosities under the carpet and bland excuses for management by shifting the responsibility on the developers and delaying decision making to the last minute. it's also a major factor for crunch time, which in turn burns developers out, in a vicious circle)

Znort, I understand, you just lost the concentration of everyone who's not a developer with all this software development theory!

 

[Strangepork]

But, if you care about the game and aren't just passing through, do more that JUST complain.

Complaints threads I see floating to the top today:
* Weird and pointless offer for selling passengers into slavery.
* [Crime and Punishment] Why ATR ships will be useless?
* The Chieftan is annoying
* Okay Dev's: Why do i have to scan a ship for a bounty, ...
* Well I didn't expect *THAT*...
* ... more ...

Now my point is not how much complaining is going on in each of these threads and others. It's more about what complaining players who do care about the game are willing to learn and do to help make the game better.

Let me take the first thread in the list above as an example and try to explain why Frontier is knocking it out of the park, but still needs our help:

This thread wails about the slavery counter offer missions sometimes not paying nearly as much original mission.

Contrary to what often is suggested in threads like this, bugs like this don't happen because Frontier managers or developers are idiots.

When we're playing this game, there are literally thousands/millions of separate bits of data and formulas and executing scripts swirling around hour virtual existence at any given moment. In the instance we're in, these data bits and calculations control things such as the state and position of every, ship, station, outpost, accepted mission, where they are positioned and where they are headed just to name a few.

The slavery counter offer value being out of proportion to the original offer is only out of proportion when you have destination stations which are extremely far away from the arrival point. This is most likely because in formulas in the mission script, the distance from the arrival didn't always play a big roll in calculation of the mission reward but now it does. The problem is that when that mission script was adjusted to take into account the distance from arrival, the template/script for the generation of the counter offer mission was not updated as well. A small detail like this is a very easy thing to miss in a game system with thousands of data, formulas, templates and scripts, etc.

You might ask why did the Frontier developer who changed the mission not know to change the counter offer mission too? Well, there's no guarantee that they were the same developer that originally created the mission so they may not have even been aware of the counter offer mission, let alone how it works. Even if they were the same developer, this is a vary complex set of game rules which no one developer can remember all the time.

Please give the Frontier Developers a break because this amazing game is a lot to manage!

If you're annoyed by small details like this being out of wack, then join lots of us in open the beta starting at the end of the week, watch for threads explaining what needs to be tested, and do more than just fly the newest ship.

Here is my constructive criticism, invest in maybe the best game ever, rather than throttle it as a toddler, with glacial development.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Here we go...the thought police are here.

OP....this is a game forum. It was created by FDev for the players to discuss ED, receive feedback both positive and negative on the game primarily to help them develop the game further and to gauge their customers satisfaction with their product.

If FDev do not want or need our feedback the solution is simple...shut the forums.

You remind me of King Canute.

I'll leave you with this which I post whenever I see one of these threads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNKEtXHyYVQ

Reading this, it's appearant that you are reading things you think I said. Things that are quite different than what I wrote.

Did I say people shouldn't complain in my original post? Re-read it. I think you're attacking me for some things you imagined I said. I obviously can't defend against an alternate reality inside your head.

 

[Quantis Trap]

Here is my constructive criticism, invest in maybe the best game ever, rather than throttle it as a toddler, with glacial development.

I'd like to take your constructive criticism, but I have no idea what you mean by it.

... said Quantis as he scratched his head and wondered if this was some witty sarcasm which went over his head?

 

[smiths121]

Has a thought ever occurred to you, that maybe, just maybe, Frontier should have thought about it before promising things and taking money up front?

Case in point orrery map.

05-07-2013

under this image:

http://www.pointplay.net/folder_4/221/data_24/940.png

Frontier Developments wrote:



than sometime late 2017




how can you defend that? Why shouldn`t i point that out?

I congratulate you on pointing it out. Alas, just pointing it out seems a bit pointless though - as we do not have our Orrey Map, and its not anywhere on the immediate roadmap. And this has not changed. Considering you had to find the relevant posts and form a multi-quote response in another thread, I think the effort you made was great for the point you are making.

I think the more interesting posts would probably be the one's after Dale's post where people pointed out the value of the map. The most obviouls to me would be planning my exploration of a system to minimise distance covered. I am sure there are other uses for an Orrey map as well. For me personally, as I do not do much exploring its not a biggie - but YMMV. These posts would be the "constructive" part of feedback. Dale was almost begging for them, so I hope there are some in the thread you are quoting from!

Simon

 

[Quantis Trap]

In never ceases to amaze me how quickly threads can get off-topic!

I'll sum up what I said in the original post with this:

Have fun complaining but do it in a constructive way ... and join the beta to make the game better!

 

[Enderby]

In never ceases to amaze me how quickly threads can get off-topic!

I'll sum up what I said in the original post with this:

Have fun complaining but do it in a constructive way ... and join the beta to make the game better!

Nonsense, call a spade a spade. This constructive-ness is getting out of hand. It's not essential to complaining. If it's I'll say it's and it's up to you to work out why. if you can't well then that's as well.

 

[GG7]

I have a complaint.

How come a small Dev team create a game like Megaton Rainfall that has an entire universe to explore with every planet landable, and destructible terrain, and the ability to land on gas giants and stars (your a super hero like superman before you ask)

Sounds awesome!

How come are you wasting your time here?

 

[Urbanski101]

Reading this, it's appearant that you are reading things you think I said. Things that are quite different than what I wrote.

Did I say people shouldn't complain in my original post? Re-read it. I think you're attacking me for some things you imagined I said. I obviously can't defend against an alternate reality inside your head.

OK...missed the bit at the bottom in colour first time around....couldn't see it very well on my background.....sorry my bad.

So you want people to join the beta....fine...no problem. I think your above summary of the OP was much better however.

I'm sure many will join the beta, however I won't for a few reasons, one is time or lack thereof, my game time is limited so when I get some time I want to play the game not the beta. Second I beta tested a few games in the past and I feel I've done my bit, they were more formal however and you had to write proper reports which was a condition of early access but even so I feel I'm done with that. Lastly and here is the complaining part, I'm not sure if FDev will change anything other than the real game breaking bugs and glaringly obvious imbalances.

Looking back at previous betas it seems much of the feedback be it whiny or constructive was largely ignored. The beta is a stress test, balance pass and bug hunt and even then many bugs that were pointed out during previous betas still found their way into the release. The beta needs to happen and hopefully they will squash the bugs that appear but I feel that is about as far as it goes, the build is done, I can't see it changing regardless of the feedback, constructive or otherwise.

I do however reserve the right to complain if I don't like the end result

 

[2Karl]

Nonsense, call a spade a spade. This constructive-ness is getting out of hand. It's not essential to complaining. If it's I'll say it's and it's up to you to work out why. if you can't well then that's as well.

Is this like when girlfriends get mad at you but won't tell you why and you have to guess?

 

[Jorge Palu]

I have a complaint...

Working a 2 week on/off roster breaks my immersion....

Oh... The topic was the games problems, not my problems...

 

[lokvette]

The only thing I can complain about in this post is the thread complaining about people complaining.

Isnt this a public forum where if you post within the rules you can post what you want, negative or posative. I complain if somthing is bad for me or slap the collective back of FD when somthing for me is good. This forum has an ignore user and ignore thread and even an ignore the whole damn section tool.

People should use that rather than make threads saying come on guys lets all hold hands and be nice to one another at least lets be nice to those nice people at FD who gave us the game...that we paid for with our hard earned cash doing in some cases the mundane 9 to 5 but hey it pays the bills and gets us nice stuff but god forbid we complain about that nice stuff if we dont like somthing about it.