New engineers - LOVE IT

[Kaocraft]

I like the new system more than the old one too. But...

I still see a problem with grandfathering such secondaries as low heat generation e.g. G1 rail guns and PAs with -50% heat generation - there is no indication of what happens to such modules in the new system if it is stays as it was shown then we have a problem.

FD is trying to make us more attached to our ships, but it is too late with all the ship storage etc.. The new system makes a step towards "sense of pride and accomplishment" for your upgrades - you just roll once choose experimental effect and then pin the blueprint and play the game and kinda shape your ship to perfection of your liking - it grows with you, you get attached, you value every step on that journey. The problem is that we (most of us, as players) have already lost that sense because we own a lot of different ships they are no longer our extensions they are just different tools that we change as we see fit and when we want. Thus people complain that they won't be able to upgrade their "fleets".

I think you're being disingenuous. Whether you have one ship or 100, the core experience of the game is and always has been the swapping of modules and experimentation with loadouts to pursue different activities in the game. One ship cannot do everything, not all at once anyway. Which means continual tinkering with builds, exchanges of modules, upgrades, etc.

People maintain "fleets" because no single ship can do everything, no single configuration can do everything, and reconfiguring your ship can take longer than building a new one from scratch and the next swapping between them on an as-needed basis.

The new update ironically does more to encourage this kind of ever-expanding fleet business, because it locks you in to whatever configuration you come up with, and severely penalizes you for changing it.

 

[GG7]

Because I don't need to get the best right away. I like the progression, and I like doing other things. I told you you wouldn't understand.

EDIT: Also you seem to imply that 400LY is a long way? Just today I travelled 8000LY.

Don't bother trying to explain!

That guy hasn't got a clue! [wacko]

There are plenty of examples of a high rolled G4 upgrade actually producing better results than something in the G5 range. I've got several ships that are running with just such upgrades as we speak.

It all comes down to experience using the system. Many of these people don't have the knowledge they pretend to have, and it is often embarrassing to watch.

 

[Dbrn47]

I don't think these guys are capable of grasping the concept.

Same goes for the HUGE increase in mat and data storage capacity which brings the ability to store 100 of every single mat and data item in the game.

Again...Swoosh! Right over their heads! [squeeeee]

Everyone gets both of those points. You keep arguing something that isn't being argued.

 

[Cageman]

The old/current system definitely has more progression in the way Sandro meant.

For those playing in Open, it also adds Balance... As you might know, or heard of, doesn't matter... Engineers really made the game very unbalanced regarding PvP. This will make it a lot more balanced, which is a positive side effect. PvP should be about skill in the random encounter. Currently it is as far from it as it could ever get.

 

[babelfisch]

Again, if you're going to go through the trouble of upgrading, why settle for the lower option when you can do it all in one go? If you're making the trip anyway. This is a horribly inefficient and unintuitive system. Starting at grade 1 when you just did a grade 5 on the exact same kind of module is terrible. You just did a grade 5. Why can't they just do what they did before?

You assume that the majority of players plays your way. I assume they don't.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think you're being disingenuous. Whether you have one ship or 100, the core experience of the game is and always has been the swapping of modules and experimentation with loadouts to pursue different activities in the game. One ship cannot do everything, not all at once anyway. Which means continual tinkering with builds, exchanges of modules, upgrades, etc

Strange, I never have gated my activities just because I don't have perfect ship for that. It is certainly not have been core experience for me. Might be reason of this huge difference of approach towards Engineers.

 

[Funny]

Yup, kinda love them too. I won’t not be critical of it though
The changes are pretty great, yes, but they could be even greater with some changes (not quite sure what, but then I’m also not certain how they want this game to turn out - though I have some ideas).

All they need to do is tone down the rng a bit and give the ‘casual’ players some changes to not make them worse off in terms of cost per upgrade, and thus uave the overall experience be better due to the broker and the rest of the changes. I don’t think there are many who’s approach to engineering is solely ‘craft and run’, but I suspect a fairly large chunk of the player base does that quite frequently, and on the whole will be negatively impacted in terms of how much time they spend on engineering.

Anyway to sort of illustrate how easy it is to cater to them/me, there’s a few things to keep in mind - and ai’m fairly confident that this will be the mean/average view of the group of people I mentioned, so here goes:
1) Most will likely only aim for their module to not be below the average line of the current grade 5, and care not about the negatives as much but solely the main purpose of the upgrade.
2) Most will choose to do upgrades only to pass the average threshold for the positive stats out of a time/investment approach. Be it that they just don’t care all that much about the module, have 10+ of them to make for their current ship, or even own a whole fleet of ship and out of storage and time considerations simply want them to all have the average benefits of the current grade 5 modifications.
3) The number of modules made that way is a rather large portion of their modifications, be it anywhere from 30-90%, possibly higher depending on how they play - though I’m guessing the average is somewhere around 50-75 or 80%?

My solution? Well, there are a few. But I guess the one I like the most is a sub-option with positive stats somewhere in the lower range of the grade 5 upgrade (or the higher range of grade 4, depending on how the new modules are balanced), with negative stats higher than grade 5 (how much depends on how high the positives are, obviously, but it’d alsays be higher even if only 5-10%) and the cost of a single grade 5 roll. Even when applied, you’d still have to go through the whole 1-5 progression thing to fully max out grade 5, so it won’t jump start you. It’d simply be treated as a standalone upgrade for the engineers, while being listed as a sub-option od the relevant blueprint type so as to make them easy to find. They would be unlocked if you get the engineer to grade 5.

 

[CMDR Percivus Keenblade]

For those playing in Open, it also adds Balance... As you might know, or heard of, doesn't matter... Engineers really made the game very unbalanced regarding PvP. This will make it a lot more balanced, which is a positive side effect. PvP should be about skill in the random encounter. Currently it is as far from it as it could ever get.

As long as the treshold for +blue numbers are such high and theres the rock-paper-scissors space magic effects, I truly doubt the statement "PvP should be about skill in the random encounter" can come to life.

 

[Kaocraft]

YOU GUYS I HAVE A GREAT IDEA TO MAKE THE GAME *EVEN BETTER*: how about at outfitting, you're not allowed to buy a "D" module until you've already purchased an "E" module three times? And then same thing from D->C, C->B, B->A, and so on?! And you get to do this for every ship you outfit, every time? And if you sell the module or switch to a different one, you get to start from the beginning again? I think it would add a great Sense Of Progression. What do you think?

Now, I know some of you "haters" out there might get all up in arms because you are peabrained simpletons who fear change; but how about we just try it before you start complaining about it? What do you MEAN you "don't like it"? You haven't even tried it so you can't possibly know what it'll be like. OK yes I did just describe it to you - but you can't base your opinions on *that* - maybe everything I've described is totally inaccurate and I'm secretly making something awesome instead.

 

[Flimley]

The new system will feel more positive in the long run. I have been emergency engineering recently, and as much as some modules have been improved, others have been disastrous @G5 due to RNG. Leaving me ultimately with the feeling of chasing my own tail...

The material traders surrounding/supporting the engineering system is very nice and adds more interest, depth and options. (Depending on what current version we are playing some mats have disappeared from the game entirely).

As for the 1 to 5 grading system... Maybe it’s better to just have a starting point and a finishing ‘end’ point to cover all of that. So you simply spend as many materials as you like or feel motivated too, then move on.

Flimley

 

[Cageman]

As long as the treshold for +blue numbers are such high and theres the rock-paper-scissors space magic effects, I truly doubt the statement "PvP should be about skill in the random encounter" can come to life.

What are you talking about? Can you please elaborate on your thoughts about this?

That said...

Gankers will allways pray on the weak. And... there is no way to avoid it, currenlty. Unless people play in Solo or PG.

 

[Kaocraft]

Strange, I never have gated my activities just because I don't have perfect ship for that. It is certainly not have been core experience for me. Might be reason of this huge difference of approach towards Engineers.

Who said anything about perfect? The point is, min-maxing or otherwise, you have to switch ships or alter your build if you want to change activities. If you don't have a mining laser and a refinery installed you can't do mining. If you engage with engineering your modules at any level you're going to be making a substantial time investment which gets thrown away when you change modules. This was always the case, but with the enforced 1-5 progression on a per-module basis; it is an order of magnitude more severe. It discourages experimentation. Punishes it in fact.

 

[GG7]

Everyone gets both of those points. You keep arguing something that isn't being argued.

Not when they haven't got a clue how that will effect material and data gathering times.

The fact they aren't mentioning this in their gripes about how long it will take because of all the additional mats and data they will be going through, tells me they are clueless.

A good chunk of the mats and data in the game are ubiquitous. They are literally all over the place. Now instead of passing on whatever because you don't have the space, you can pick up 100 of every single one.

That is going to have a HUGE impact on the speed of doing upgrades.

Again... Clueless.

 

[DaggerSnake]

I just choose to fly one wonderful ship that I’ll engineer to the max before moving onto th next.

This new system sounds fine. I can see how someone who feels the need to max out every module of every ship they own will feel a bit put off.

I think that the end result is maxed modules for everyone. That is something that I do find dissapointing. Now there is less variety coming between ships...

 

[Nomadski]

I'm willing to give it a go. I get what FD are trying to do with the new system. Think it will benefit players like me who drop in drop out quite a bit, and don't play to a hardcore minmax style.

 

[CMDR Terrorfirma]

Currently wondering if this system will just make it so everyone will have top-level mods because anyone can just keep modding till they get topped out - best module available ...

"when everyone's super.... No one will be"

[video=youtube;A8I9pYCl9AQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ[/video]

 

[Dbrn47]

YOU GUYS I HAVE A GREAT IDEA TO MAKE THE GAME *EVEN BETTER*: how about at outfitting, you're not allowed to buy a "D" module until you've already purchased an "E" module three times? And then same thing from D->C, C->B, B->A, and so on?! And you get to do this for every ship you outfit, every time? And if you sell the module or switch to a different one, you get to start from the beginning again? I think it would add a great Sense Of Progression. What do you think?

Now, I know some of you "haters" out there might get all up in arms because you are peabrained simpletons who fear change; but how about we just try it before you start complaining about it? What do you MEAN you "don't like it"? You haven't even tried it so you can't possibly know what it'll be like. OK yes I did just describe it to you - but you can't base your opinions on *that* - maybe everything I've described is totally inaccurate and I'm secretly making something awesome instead.

Make it so, number one!

 

[AndyJ]

For those playing in Open, it also adds Balance... As you might know, or heard of, doesn't matter... Engineers really made the game very unbalanced regarding PvP. This will make it a lot more balanced, which is a positive side effect. PvP should be about skill in the random encounter. Currently it is as far from it as it could ever get.

So basically, everyone being able to max out at the exact same stats with the exact same drawbacks with the exact same effect is great.

Might just as well argue to just remove the damn things instead.

And frankly I'm sick to death of this game being led about by the tail for the needs of PvP at the expense of everybody else. This game was never meant to be for PvP, yet it's all we hear about and all Sandro seems to focus on.

There is no challenge in being guaranteed the same end-result as everyone else. This new system is just turning engineers into the same mindless click-click-click garbage as those flash games that used to be on Facebook. Oooh that's laser #1 max'd out, now to click-click-click my way to do laser #2.

No thanks. RIP Engineers and any semblance of variety.

 

[babelfisch]

Currently wondering if this system will just make it so everyone will have top level mods because anyone can just keep modding till the get topped out best module available ...

"when everyone's super.... No one will be"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ

The question is: Would that really be worse than the current system?

 

[Kaocraft]

I just choose to fly one wonderful ship that I’ll engineer to the max before moving onto th next.

This new system sounds fine. I can see how someone who feels the need to max out every module of every ship they own will feel a bit put off.

Max out every module of every ship is literally what you just said you are going to do.

The new changes cater exclusively to people who want to max out every module of every ship. It discourages freeform tinkering and build diversity.