the new engineer system for dummies
- Thread starter prd
- Start date
Well, the management mess just changes.
Instead of throwing away materials, you'll be making periodic visits to a trader to change up mats that you've maxed out.
But while you're there you'll need in depth knowledge of all the grades needed to plough through in order to get to the grade you actually want to make sure you don't dispose of low grade materials you actually need now.
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The problem is that ED is being designed as a mobile freemium game while it's an open world game.
Replacing RNG by Grindy gameplay is not progress, it's going from vanilla brussel sprout icecream to vanilla chorizo icecream. Poor choices both.
Making material collection better (as in not mind numbingly stupid things like Wake scaning and sitting in SC for the right SS to pop) should be
a priority isn't it ?
Is the game so boring that we have to design mechanics to force players in poorly designed gameplay loops for an extrinsic reward ?
Really ? That's the best FD can come up with ?
Deleted member 38366
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Just reviewed the Stream again and they were able to progress to next Grade with 3 rolls, so that'll be 3x4=12 + 3 to 6 on the G5. 15-18 rolls, 20 likely gives you the "everyone has this" G5 top roll.
Still, I'm really no friend of his "LevelUp!" System, wasting the vast Majority of Rolls on getting to any baseline G5 quality.
All these are entirely wasted and darn sure "won't be quicker". Far from it. It's a physical impossibility - especially since you're forced into the Upgrade branch of whatever Mod G5 you seek.
All those Mats you'll need with no alternatives (exception : Materials Trader).
Only the G5 rolls (when compared to the old System) obviously benefit due to the "limited to upside" RNG and only apply to top-notch gear.
Assuming just I would want to grandfather my fleet's Modules and benefit from the new System :
Approx. 600 Engineered Modules and a minimum of 15 Rolls per Module to make them solid G5 again.... 9000 Rolls at some 20 different Engineers. Approx. 11000 Rolls if I want to benefit from higher G5 quality the new System affords.
Let's see... lol no. Get the hell outta here.
I didn't even mention the ~12-13 Billion Credits I'd need just to move these Ships & Modules back to the bubble, Engineer them and then return everything back to Colonia.
I could save most of the Credits and just do some 440000LY worth of round-trips in my 10 most expensive Ships. Guess what, not gonna happen either.
It'll be easier they said.... They had no idea xD
I reckon I'll keep everything as is and only use the new System for new released Ships or Modules purchased in the bubble.
Still, I'm really no friend of his "LevelUp!" System, wasting the vast Majority of Rolls on getting to any baseline G5 quality.
All these are entirely wasted and darn sure "won't be quicker". Far from it. It's a physical impossibility - especially since you're forced into the Upgrade branch of whatever Mod G5 you seek.
All those Mats you'll need with no alternatives (exception : Materials Trader).
Only the G5 rolls (when compared to the old System) obviously benefit due to the "limited to upside" RNG and only apply to top-notch gear.
Assuming just I would want to grandfather my fleet's Modules and benefit from the new System :
Approx. 600 Engineered Modules and a minimum of 15 Rolls per Module to make them solid G5 again.... 9000 Rolls at some 20 different Engineers. Approx. 11000 Rolls if I want to benefit from higher G5 quality the new System affords.
Let's see... lol no. Get the hell outta here.
I didn't even mention the ~12-13 Billion Credits I'd need just to move these Ships & Modules back to the bubble, Engineer them and then return everything back to Colonia.
I could save most of the Credits and just do some 440000LY worth of round-trips in my 10 most expensive Ships. Guess what, not gonna happen either.
It'll be easier they said.... They had no idea xD
I reckon I'll keep everything as is and only use the new System for new released Ships or Modules purchased in the bubble.
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I'm not impressed with the new Engineer changes.
Mostly because they demonstrate a clear lack of care for *balance issues*.
The current exchange rate for material brokers is also baffling beyond belief. Probably thanks to the same knucklehead in the Fdev office who thinks multicrew/wing XP division to a fraction of normal XP is a good thing.
Mostly because they demonstrate a clear lack of care for *balance issues*.
The current exchange rate for material brokers is also baffling beyond belief. Probably thanks to the same knucklehead in the Fdev office who thinks multicrew/wing XP division to a fraction of normal XP is a good thing.
I think we'll just have to wait and see how it pans out.
The increased material storage will help a lot and having a consistent target to aim at for an upgrade will be fairer for everyone and easier to plan for.
So I'm feeling pretty positive about it overall but we really will have to wait and see.
Meanwhile I still think some basic low level mods should be available more widely with the better more specialised ones at Engineers. That's seem to be just me though
The increased material storage will help a lot and having a consistent target to aim at for an upgrade will be fairer for everyone and easier to plan for.
So I'm feeling pretty positive about it overall but we really will have to wait and see.
Meanwhile I still think some basic low level mods should be available more widely with the better more specialised ones at Engineers. That's seem to be just me though
No one asked for "the exact opposite". They asked for better.
Of course better is subjective, so I guess we will have to see.
I really don't see the extra grind at all now i've thought about it. If anything i think it will be less.
As other posters have already said 'Most' classes of material/data are found in the place. As the G5 components. So you'll naturally have the lower grades thanks to improved inventory meaning you don't have to vent low grade stuff.
The only ones i think are not, without looking them up, are those which only spawn in High grade ss.
Luckily the material trader will allow me to get round this frustrating activity by doing some other activity i enjoy. Like blowing things up or surface mining or missions
I just feel sorry for all those extra clicks on my mouse.
As other posters have already said 'Most' classes of material/data are found in the place. As the G5 components. So you'll naturally have the lower grades thanks to improved inventory meaning you don't have to vent low grade stuff.
The only ones i think are not, without looking them up, are those which only spawn in High grade ss.
Luckily the material trader will allow me to get round this frustrating activity by doing some other activity i enjoy. Like blowing things up or surface mining or missions
I just feel sorry for all those extra clicks on my mouse.
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the material trader needs 1296 G1 materials for 1 G5 material. Not a lot of help really.
I agree. 6:1 for an upgrade sounds fine until you do the math on how that scales up through all 5 grades. I think a 3:1 upgrade trade-in rate is a bit more sound. Then you'd only need 81 G1 materials to get 1 G5 material. A much more reasonable exchange rate.
If they doubled the exchange rate, then the new system would be A-OK.
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I can't understand how so many people seem to be stuck on the fact that you have to level up each item...
In the old system, you could get a G5 straight away. Sometimes a good G5, but often a crappy G5. Most often, a mediocre G5. And you would then spend weeks of time trying to improve on that in the hopes that you could get a proper roll. And even then, there was always someone who would go out and roll 1000 times and get the an even better one.
In the new system, the benefits are oustanding to both casual and hardcore players.
For hardcore players, grind to get a top-spec G5 module is now monumentally less (on average, because most of the time you don't get a top G5 within 5 rolls).
For more casual players, a top-spec G5 mod is now within your reach in a much shorter, more predictable timeline.
It's a win win.
And of course, as FDev have pointed out, this is for the future health of the game. I've engineered some, I wouldn't call myself casual but haven't been hardcore into it either. The system is confusing at times as it's not always obvious if a new roll is better than the old one, and any work you do is not guaranteed to be an improvement. That kinda puts me off collecting rare mats when it could all be for diddly squat.
Now, for the first time, between the materials trader and the new upgrade process, I'm confidant that I can hit top-spec G5 on all my ships without sacrificing my career and social life.
Just give it time! The new system won't be better for every single edge case out there, but over all, it's a huge improvement all round.
In the old system, you could get a G5 straight away. Sometimes a good G5, but often a crappy G5. Most often, a mediocre G5. And you would then spend weeks of time trying to improve on that in the hopes that you could get a proper roll. And even then, there was always someone who would go out and roll 1000 times and get the an even better one.
In the new system, the benefits are oustanding to both casual and hardcore players.
For hardcore players, grind to get a top-spec G5 module is now monumentally less (on average, because most of the time you don't get a top G5 within 5 rolls).
For more casual players, a top-spec G5 mod is now within your reach in a much shorter, more predictable timeline.
It's a win win.
And of course, as FDev have pointed out, this is for the future health of the game. I've engineered some, I wouldn't call myself casual but haven't been hardcore into it either. The system is confusing at times as it's not always obvious if a new roll is better than the old one, and any work you do is not guaranteed to be an improvement. That kinda puts me off collecting rare mats when it could all be for diddly squat.
Now, for the first time, between the materials trader and the new upgrade process, I'm confidant that I can hit top-spec G5 on all my ships without sacrificing my career and social life.
Just give it time! The new system won't be better for every single edge case out there, but over all, it's a huge improvement all round.
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I don't know about anyone else but i imagine ill be trading down for G1 a lot more than tradin G1 up. Most materials i find are 3-4 (except surface mining) so the trade up im looking at is 6 or 36 to 1 for G5.
Spouting the 1296 for G1 is niether realistic or helpful for the discussion.
I agree. The only think I would like to add is way to dismantle modules to get some materials back. For instance if I first started playing and was upgrading my sidewinder/eagle/hauler/adder, it would be nice to have those dismantled and get some, not all of the materials back.
I also think that when it comes to pinning a blueprint, that you can pin the whole range, so you pin overchanged multicannons and you can engineer upto G5 in the mobile workshop. Also pinned blueprints should only be used for that purpose. You should be able to see what materials you need to engineer a module that you have unlocked.
If anyone actually does this in game, I for one will camping on the forums pointing my finger and laughing at the complaints about grind.
I thought it looks worse for the average player not those interested in god rolls.
Previously you could latch a grade and then 1 roll (or a few) for a decent outcome on the next item.
Now you have to repeat the earlier grade rolls.
Depends how much harder it will be to get the many extra materials needed for those many extra rolls.
(Those who collected hundreds of mats to play the roulette wheel to get a best roll are already predisposed to this type of play.).
Prefer the new engineer structure, but not latching grades seems to imply more RNG grind unless materials are much easier to get.
You see, the mindset of the new system is totally different.
Yes, it was quicker for the average player to get a decent roll before, whereas a top-spec 'God roll' was totally out of the question, because it required too much time investment and just plain luck.
Now, the average player can go after top-spec G5 modules knowing that they're reachable in a predictable, reasonable timeframe.
Specialized Legacy Firmware (G1) is far and away more common than Cracked Industrial Firmware (G3). Likewise with Modified Embedded Firmware (G5).
So I disagree. I think the conversion rate between SLF and MEB is a fairly important one. 1296:1 is just a bit too draconian. 81:1 would be far more reasonable. And 9:1 for G3 to G5 is still a significant slog and a balanced effort/conversion ratio.
36 G3s for a single G5 is a bit insane imo.
It doesn't take 36x the effort to get a G5 as is does a G3!! It doesn't even take 3 times the time! For a conversion ratio to make sense it needs to present both a marginal convenience cost for upgrading AND it needs to take into account the relative amount of time it would take to just grind for the target material in the first place. Even at a 3:1 rate between adjacent grades, the convenience cost is still VERY HIGH compared to the standard method of grinding materials in the wild.
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I like it
my data and materials is always full, fed up of throwing stuff away, so now can store more in a proper menu where I can see what the stuff is used for and if it gets full, just broker up.
I tend to engineer by ship, visiting different engineers as removing modules is too confusing, and there are only a few I use like long range fsd and exploring ones, so ability to blueprint and upgrade at my SD homeworld is great.
sounds good to me....
wait, ....you have to grind up each time for a module?
my data and materials is always full, fed up of throwing stuff away, so now can store more in a proper menu where I can see what the stuff is used for and if it gets full, just broker up.
I tend to engineer by ship, visiting different engineers as removing modules is too confusing, and there are only a few I use like long range fsd and exploring ones, so ability to blueprint and upgrade at my SD homeworld is great.
sounds good to me....
wait, ....you have to grind up each time for a module?
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Very shortly, people will be along to tell you that you are wrong. Maybe they are right.
Personally, though, I'm entirely with you on this.
Currently if I want a new Grade 5 FSD for a new ship, I head along to an Engineer and do one or two rolls and then leave happy.
I won't be able to do that any more. I said this a month or two back, people told me to wait and see...because the material trader would make it all ok. However at current test levels, the material trader needs 1296 G1 materials for 1 G5 material. Not a lot of help really.
But Frontier insist it's for the long term betterment of the game, in which case I guess it doesn't matter what players who do this actually want. Game comes first, right?
The thing is I've liked 99% of what I've seen in in Beyond so but this change depends on how difficult it will be to get the materials (something what has been very time consuming in the past). If say, using the material broker or materials are easier to come by or the receipts don't have such high requirements in the past, then it might work. That's why I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt until I've tested it in beta.
However, most people compare it to the present system and if you had to grind from 1-5 in the present system for every module and then redo it all for a second ship, I don't think I would have had the time.
I think you may have mixed up your G3s and G5s somewhere in there, but yeah, I agree with what you're saying though, especially considering this needs to be done each time for each module we want to upgrade. I'm not seeing much point of the trader otherwise. The Engineers still seem like a meta gamer's grind game to keep them occupied rather than something players will be reasonably able to contend with otherwise.
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