Nice way to put it. So casual. That's some "cutthroat galaxy" politics indeed!
(Personally, I don't mind some killing, but I don't like murder as a primary tool for BGS politics.)
The new crime and punishment system will adversely effect the way we manipulate the BGS
- Thread starter Vicktore Beskor
- Start date
Nice way to put it. So casual. That's some "cutthroat galaxy" politics indeed!
(Personally, I don't mind some killing, but I don't like murder as a primary tool for BGS politics.)
It’s not equal though. Moving a faction from 1% to 5% is pretty trivial with missions of all types, bounties and even trade/exploration data if they own a port. Supporting 6 or 7 other factions so that they all gain more than the one you want to retreat to avoid them losing influence to the retreating faction is 6 or 7 times the work even without taking into account the diminishing returns for getting near 1%. More like 10 to 20 times in my experience.
Without a black market (which many automatically don’t have) you can put in 10 times the effort of a passing player just grinding credits and lose. That’s the reality I’m afraid.
As noted I don’t use murder for RP reasons so it’s what I have to deal with. I can understand why people do use it accordingly, particularly as my current target for retreat means no BMs to help.
I’m pretty much left with the potential to lower my faction into war, push them to a meaningless expansion I don’t want, or lose another retreat option. I’ve ended up just losing the retreat accordingly.
So while I won’t do murder, I must admit that going into attempt 6 it’s getting tempting as the only option I do have other than crossing my fingers that 6 will work.
Oh and that’s a system with 2 other players through in the last 24 and nobody in open while I’ve been there, so hardly high traffic but those I’m trying to retreat got a 6% bump on that day.
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Wait, hold on?! So mass-murder and genocide will no longer be casual tools you rely on on a day-to-day basis without consequences? Weird.
#NotMyEarthDefenseFleet
#NotMyEarthDefenseFleet
And the memory of a scary time will eventually fade into sweet obscurity over the years. Let's move on, more BGS to do!
Lets not make this discussion personal or partisan please, it will go off the rails very quickly otherwise.
I agree that murder shouldn't be a casual activity. The newly introduced consequences mean that undertaking a murder campaign is now a meaningful decision. The BGS rewards are high for a successful campaign as are the potential costs for doing it.
I'm still somewhat on the fence about OP ATR, will need to do more operational testing. I believe murder to still be a viable BGS activity - to an extent - but equally Victor may be correct in suggesting that the pendulum was swung too far the other way.
That said one of the constants of he BGS is change and we as BGS players have to evolve with it. What worked in 1.0 (practically nothing) is a far different story than now. Were not always as lucky as this to be actually told what the change is. I hope that the BGS is never "finished". That would make life boring.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
I get what you're saying, but it still works on the assumption that triggering a retreat should be as easy as lowering reputation.
In the 'real world' (and I hate real world analogies to sci-fi games, but I think this is valid) being on the point of destruction is exactly when a faction will fight hardest to survive, so in a way it's reasonable that the BGS simulates this.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Absolutely this ^^
One way that FDev could balance the system is to give higher influence % as a reward and tone down the godly amount of damage that the ATR dish out the way it is now in the beta you can not even spider tank there attacks.
I am not saying that murder should be easy it should of course present a challenge and it was not right that a lone commander could go on a murder spree and tank a minor faction. But that being said murder was and should be a viable tactic.
I welcome the Challenge of the ATR but as they are now they are way to OP.
And I would also like to point out that there are some of us who have multiple systems to manage and the use of murder is the most efficient way for us to manage our game time.
I am not saying that murder should be easy it should of course present a challenge and it was not right that a lone commander could go on a murder spree and tank a minor faction. But that being said murder was and should be a viable tactic.
I welcome the Challenge of the ATR but as they are now they are way to OP.
And I would also like to point out that there are some of us who have multiple systems to manage and the use of murder is the most efficient way for us to manage our game time.
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But in the real world we wouldn’t let an invading army stay in our country because some statistics say their influence is 5% and ours 65% so no war available. But even if there was you can only lower them to 1% and will then have to keep them there without war.
Murder isn’t the right tool, but for direct effect it was often the only direct tool. An impact of a BGS system not designed to be played and consequences either not being fully thought through or just ignored.
With people playing the BGS and PMFs existing it’s a bit too late to just ignore now. I would prefer that retreat was a 2 party affair like war/election so that the controlling faction worked against an invader direct to retreat. A straight 50:50 grind. But as we don’t I can understand the issue of what is there being removed.
Uhh, what Beta are you guys playing?
[video=youtube;8cVW_wW0uuw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cVW_wW0uuw[/video]
@Morbad
Please retry your testing in a random System killing random Civil ships in a Nav Beacon. The result will be the same, you get maybe 15 kills done before the ATRs arrive and fry your rear.
Even so, the time that is now needed to kill these ships does not compare to how many could be killed before ATRs came to be. Now everyone working the BGS (and given enough CMDRs working on it) has an easier way to counter the ship killing through handing in Bounty vouchers.
Last but not least, you will pay your Bounty costs and the rebuy costs of the ship you're using. Which means if you go hunting with anything smaller then a Corvette or Anaconda to avoid losing too much credits you will not rack up as much kills. Not to mention that being moved to a Detention ship will make you take your sweet time to come back (we all know how good the jump capacity of pure fighter ships are, even when maxed).
Please retry your testing in a random System killing random Civil ships in a Nav Beacon. The result will be the same, you get maybe 15 kills done before the ATRs arrive and fry your rear.
Even so, the time that is now needed to kill these ships does not compare to how many could be killed before ATRs came to be. Now everyone working the BGS (and given enough CMDRs working on it) has an easier way to counter the ship killing through handing in Bounty vouchers.
Last but not least, you will pay your Bounty costs and the rebuy costs of the ship you're using. Which means if you go hunting with anything smaller then a Corvette or Anaconda to avoid losing too much credits you will not rack up as much kills. Not to mention that being moved to a Detention ship will make you take your sweet time to come back (we all know how good the jump capacity of pure fighter ships are, even when maxed).
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Deleted member 115407
D
The endless slaughter mechanic was idiotic anyways. Good riddance.
Trust me, everyone attempting this will be slaughtered sooner then later. There's not one Pilot out there that could single-handedly hold out against the masses and firepower that are thrown at you. In a Wing things might get interesting, but even then it's light's out the moment the ATRs arrive because killing even one of them would require some serious effort.
And they won't let you have the time to do so.
So viable but not OP?
Known issues thread.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/402506-3-0-Open-Beta-Known-Issues-List
Too many ATR ships
Currently the ATR response is too enthusiastic – too many ships are arriving from the get go and this is making ATR too punishing. We will be fixing this during a beta update which will result in the correct number of Advanced Tactical Responders arriving to lay down the law.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/402506-3-0-Open-Beta-Known-Issues-List
Too many ATR ships
Currently the ATR response is too enthusiastic – too many ships are arriving from the get go and this is making ATR too punishing. We will be fixing this during a beta update which will result in the correct number of Advanced Tactical Responders arriving to lay down the law.
I opt to reduce them by 2, that still leaves enough killing firepower to dismantle engineered ships.