enable ELITE OPEN CLASSIC mode

[znôrt]

I propose the addition of a new 'open classic' mode with the following considerations:

• players can not enter this mode unless their ship is docked, or is free of engineered modules and has regular ammo only
• players can not launch any ship that has any engineered modules on board or synthesis ammo loaded
• synthesis is disabled
• besides these considerations, the mode is identical to 'open'

purpose:

• provide a mode of play without any engineering and synthesis. otherwise the world remains shared exactly like all other modes currently do
• it would lower the competitive bar with two interesting side effects:
  • provide a more friendly and accessible environment for new players to start their adventure
  • make player generated events of engineer-free combat a lot easier (and actually feasible)

rationale:

i just profoundly dislike the game changing impact that engineers have had on the game, and long for the good old 'classic' feel of elite dangerous. i do not negate the validity of engineers (despite any flaws) as a game concept, i just subjectively prefer the more humble and straightforward gameplay we had before. so this is not to raise a discussion about engineers, just a test to see if there are any like-minded pilots out there that would like this or support such a petition, which should be actually pretty easy to implement.

 

[Para Handy]

I quite like this notion. [up]

 

[znôrt]

guys, guys ... not all at once, please!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Splitting the Open playerbase into smaller and smaller groups (classic mode, ironman mode, whatever else someone comes up with) is going to negatively impact everyone's experience.

 

[Para Handy]

Splitting the Open playerbase into smaller and smaller groups (classic mode, ironman mode, whatever else someone comes up with) is going to negatively impact everyone's experience.

Well I actually feel that such a "mode" would bring in people who would not otherwise indulge in Open Play in the bubble since it removes the imbalance which resulted from Engineers, hence ganking is much less likely and any PvP would have a level playing field.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Sounds like a job for a ruleset where each rule can be toggled by the Private Group manager.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well I actually feel that such a "mode" would bring in people who would not otherwise indulge in Open Play in the bubble since it removes the imbalance which resulted from Engineers, hence ganking is much less likely and any PvP would have a level playing field.

It still fractures the Open players into smaller groups, even if there are more total players.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It still fractures the Open players into smaller groups, even if there are more total players.

Open was guaranteed to be fractured by the mere existence of Solo and an unlimited number of Private Groups.

 

[znôrt]

Splitting the Open playerbase into smaller and smaller groups (classic mode, ironman mode, whatever else someone comes up with) is going to negatively impact everyone's experience.

to a point.

on the other hand, i don't see how that can be a problem given fragmentation is already built into the game. isn't that the whole point of 'play your own way'?

Sounds like a job for a ruleset where each rule can be toggled by the Private Group manager.

indeed, but likely more involved to implement. i wanted to keep it simple, but that would be even nicer!

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Open was guaranteed to be fractured by the mere existence of Solo and an unlimited number of Private Groups.

Indeed, but why fracture it still further?

We have requests for Ironman and Classic modes, so presumably somebody wants a Classic Ironman mode.

There's also the question of balance.
It's hard enough for FDev already, without further complicating things.

As an example, there's the ATR response - balancing that between regular and Classic mode will be impossible, due to the difference in potential player ship strength, so FDev would have to tailor it to each mode.

 

[znôrt]

It's hard enough for FDev already, without further complicating things.

nope. players without horizons are expected to play the game too, right? why isn't it a balancing problem in that case? players choosing 'classic' just put themselves voluntarily in that situation.

anyway, it would hardly affect new players since they wouldn't have engineering anyway, and likely wouldn't be facing elite or dangerous npc either. as for regular pve, renouncing engineers is just disabling easy mode.

finally ... imo most unbalance comes actually from engineers (which is part of the motivation), classic would simply get rid of it since base parameters are mostly okay. so, unless things had to change substantially in the future and engineers became a hard requirement, no extra balance is needed (and if there is, base game will need to be either scraped or taken into account too).

As an example, there's the ATR response - balancing that between regular and Classic mode will be impossible, due to the difference in potential player ship strength, so FDev would have to tailor it to each mode.

atr is per definition an overwhelming force expected to be unbeatable, so balance is hardly an issue there. its sole purpose is to force players to bug out, the only question is 'sooner or later'. (if it weren't irrelevant until combat log is fixed, that is)

i don't even think fragmentation would be that bad for open: players willing to renounce engineers (at least temporarily) are not the ones you would normally find fully pimped in open anyway, and i don't think having pilots instakilled in open was ever a good idea either.

so presumably somebody wants a Classic Ironman

an ironman mode isn't really needed since anyone can already play ironman in any mode. i can see players wanting to choose to do ironman either solo, private or open, or a mix of all. so it isn't really a mode but a flag, a simple 'no rebuys' checkbox on character creation would do. then again, real ironmen do that themselves, this would only grant official bragging rights!

 

[Dirk Braben]

Eng killed Open for me. I don't have the time to grind mats to level up to "Open Standards" so it'd be suicide for me to attend Open. I am never ever attending Open anymore in the future - I'm not mad.
Maybe PvE groups, but not even these as NPCs have Eng modules, too, so are always on top of you. It's just not fun (for me).

Something like "Open Classic" - yes, I would join that. It would be where skill matters, not how much time you have left to grind.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

For what I know, there are private groups that are engineers free so I see no use in the idea.

 

[Ben Ryder]

I propose the addition of a new 'open classic' mode with the following considerations:

• players can not enter this mode unless their ship is docked, or is free of engineered modules and has regular ammo only
• players can not launch any ship that has any engineered modules on board or synthesis ammo loaded
• synthesis is disabled
• besides these considerations, the mode is identical to 'open'

purpose:

• provide a mode of play without any engineering and synthesis. otherwise the world remains shared exactly like all other modes currently do
• it would lower the competitive bar with two interesting side effects:
  • provide a more friendly and accessible environment for new players to start their adventure
  • make player generated events of engineer-free combat a lot easier (and actually feasible)

rationale:

i just profoundly dislike the game changing impact that engineers have had on the game, and long for the good old 'classic' feel of elite dangerous. i do not negate the validity of engineers (despite any flaws) as a game concept, i just subjectively prefer the more humble and straightforward gameplay we had before. so this is not to raise a discussion about engineers, just a test to see if there are any like-minded pilots out there that would like this or support such a petition, which should be actually pretty easy to implement.

think you might be on to something

 

[Ben Ryder]

For what I know, there are private groups that are engineers free so I see no use in the idea.

Name one

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Name one

Maybe I was wrong with what I said although you could simply make one.

 

[Para Handy]

Maybe I was wrong with what I said although you could simply make one.

Even if you did, the NPCs would still have engineered mods at higher ranks. So you might equalize PvP but you unbalance PvE.

The proposed mode provides an elegant solution. In effect it gives us Elite Dangerous pre-Engineers (i.e. before they broke the game )

 

[Iskariot]

I propose the addition of a new 'open classic' mode with the following considerations:

• players can not enter this mode unless their ship is docked, or is free of engineered modules and has regular ammo only
• players can not launch any ship that has any engineered modules on board or synthesis ammo loaded
• synthesis is disabled
• besides these considerations, the mode is identical to 'open'

purpose:

• provide a mode of play without any engineering and synthesis. otherwise the world remains shared exactly like all other modes currently do
• it would lower the competitive bar with two interesting side effects:
  • provide a more friendly and accessible environment for new players to start their adventure
  • make player generated events of engineer-free combat a lot easier (and actually feasible)

rationale:

i just profoundly dislike the game changing impact that engineers have had on the game, and long for the good old 'classic' feel of elite dangerous. i do not negate the validity of engineers (despite any flaws) as a game concept, i just subjectively prefer the more humble and straightforward gameplay we had before. so this is not to raise a discussion about engineers, just a test to see if there are any like-minded pilots out there that would like this or support such a petition, which should be actually pretty easy to implement.

I would be fine with it.
It doesn't make a difference for my game at all as I prefer to be alone in the galaxy anyway.

Perhaps FDev doesn't not want 2 separate Open modes?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Even if you did, the NPCs would still have engineered mods at higher ranks. So you might equalize PvP but you unbalance PvE.

The proposed mode provides an elegant solution. In effect it gives us Elite Dangerous pre-Engineers (i.e. before they broke the game )

I don't know but I think PvE is easy enough so this shouldn't be a problem, besides, I suspect the purpose of the PG is to have relatively fair PvP so if you were to be in a PvE mood you could just switch modes.

I think the engineers were a compromise FDev made, diversity for balance. If you truly want the most balanced PvP you could imagine, CQC is for you. No engineers, no module diversity, insignificant ship divesity and a cheat free space (ie, calling the cops or trying to tease the station).

 

[Para Handy]

.......... CQC is for you. .................

Now you just go and wash your mouth out with soap and water! The very idea!