Yeah - but for what exactly do you need highly engineered ships? Jump range is the only valid factor in my point, maybe also PvP. But that´s it - you have no advantage against the AI in an engineered ship and you have almost no advantage in hauling goods or exploration.
The credits per hour and the 'end game'
- Thread starter KellyR
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Yeah - but for what exactly do you need highly engineered ships? Jump range is the only valid factor in my point, maybe also PvP. But that´s it - you have no advantage against the AI in an engineered ship and you have almost no advantage in hauling goods or exploration.
Are you ready to have your mind blown? Are you sitting down? Here it comes: I have personally, all by myself, flipped a half dozen systems from independent or federal to empire. You have probably been to one of "my" systems, or at least scrolled past it on the galaxy map. It was a blue system because of me. I made it that way.
"There's no persistence to events or player actions" - wrong. I just pointed to an example of one.
"no purpose to having done anything" - it's a video game. The only purpose it will ever have is what you imagine it to have. If you want a real purpose for your life, then stop playing video games and go volunteer at a soup kitchen.
"no reason to play with the sand in the sand box" - the only legitimate reason is that it's fun. That's all a video game can ever give you. If you're not having fun, then stop wasting your time with it and get another hobby.
Really? Nothing we do means anything? So I guess those times when I brought in massive amounts of food and then the next day, there was no famine in that system (where there was before) were just coincidences. Or the time when I brought in massive amounts of basic medicines and the same thing happened with the outbreak that had been there. Or how about the time I was bringing palladium to this place and the prices started to drop? That was just a coincidence too? That's a lot of coincidences. I'm not saying it was just me. But it is very possible that it ended a bit earlier than if I had done nothing. And it's possible the price of Palladium dropped a bit sooner than it would otherwise without my actions. So your statement that nothing remotely like this existing in the game is fallacious (in error). It sounds to me like you haven't actually tried to help with an outbreak or famine relief, even for a profit. And I made great profits on those foods and medicines I brought in. In fact, that's all I do concerning trade anymore. Because that's what pays the best.
Quick follow-up response:
Here's one site's definition of an arcade game: https://www.techopedia.com/definition/1903/arcade-game
PC- or console games are sometimes referred to as arcade games if they share the same qualities as real arcade games such as the following:
- Intuitive and simple controls with simple physics
- Short levels which become increasingly difficult as the game progresses
- A focus on gameplay rather than on content or story
Elite definitely meets the arcade description description based on #1 (gameplay, push button fly/shoot) and #3 (no story, limited gameplay content). It's missing #2 short levels - maybe they'll come after Beyond? Start by expanding the buggy base-racing we have today.
Here's another from our friends at Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_game
The focus of arcade action games is on the user's reflexes, and the games usually feature very little puzzle-solving, complex thinking, or strategy skills. Games with complex thinking are called strategy video games or puzzle video games.
No one can say Elite is based around puzzle solving, complex thinking or strategy skills. Elite today is about user reflexes - PvP / PvE combat - which is what the dev's spend the majority of their time working on. Look at this beta with PvP/combat focused changes and pretty textures for roids. Even a new combat oriented ship. And the GUI changes themselves seem to be more for improving the console experience.
It's essentially an arcade game by definition. Not sure why folks would be upset with saying that. Does it mean something negative to say you like arcade games?
Back OT: the credits/hour has never been balanced. Right from release the income and expenses have been changed to extremes over and over, and here we are in year four with the same problem. It's pretty obvious when many players flock to a current high credit making opportunity, and say they are having fun with the higher reward, that something is severely wrong with the game. Smeaton could have been fixed with a simple adjustment to larger passenger quantities which would have limited the higher rewards to bigger ships balancing their risk/reward use.
I'm not upset with you saying it's an arcade game. I just don't agree. I do agree it's somewhat arcady in the flight model, but not that much. About the only ardady thing in the flight model I've seen is the speed limit (I'm referring to maximum ship speed, not the 100mps imposed by stations) Aircrafts can't be all that intuitive. There's a lot of things you have to do to keep a craft aloft in an atmosphere with gravity. And quite a few things that can crash you if you do them wrong. In a space craft, you basically have to just keep the craft on the course you want it on unless you go into combat and combat is far from intuitive. And even then, until you get the hang of it, it's going to seem daunting because you have so many controls. Sure, we all know what that big forward and backward lever does. We all know what that handle sticking straight up with 4 or 5 buttons on it does. But then you have landing gear, hard points, silent running, chaff*, shield cell banks*, lateral thrusters, ventral thrusters (up and down), cargo scoop, dump all cargo**, ECM*, heatsinks*, yaw, toggle flight assist, Hyperspace, supercruise, etc. This game has a lot of controls. It can be daunting and intimidating and there is nothing intuitive about the cargo scoop being located on the home button (or wherever else it is located). Just as there's nothing intuitive about silent running being bound to the delete key (unless you're thinking that if you press it and leave it alone it will delete [blow up] your ship).
*If equipped
**If bound to a key
The people you're arguing with have no imagination. They focus on credits because it's the only thing they can see. They literally don't even notice if they're transporting food or slaves. It's just cargo. All they notice is how much the job pays ...oh, and how far the destination station is from the star, because they'll whine if it's more than 10,000 ls.
I play the game since gamma, and I have to say, this is probably the best guide or advice for Elite Dangerous I've read. I couldn't summarize this better.
Rep.
Fully agree with every point you made. I came to the same conclusions from playing the game for a long time learning form my own mistakes in the past.
I was really against board flipping or using credits exploits for a long time, scraping by with minimum credits for over 2 years, afraid it would break my game and ruin the fun if I'd take part in such activities. What a fool I was.
Then made a billion with pax missions. You know what I realized? I actually had fun doing 40 mins pax missions to Medb.
Now I have more fun than ever playing the game. More ships = more to do.
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Exceptional advice, couldn't sum it up any better. I can confirm it works too. Repped, Sir.
All of this too!
I think the term "end game", in ED's case, refers to the point where there's nothing else to "chase" rather than suggesting the game is "finished".
The Anaconda, Corvette and Cutter might be considered "end game" ships simply cos once you've got them there's no further rungs of the ladder to climb.
I agree with a lot you said in this post, but Elite Dangerous doesn't disrespect the player's time any more than most games. It simply gives you reasons to keep playing other than a love of spaceflight. It gives you more goal options than most games. Most player career games require quite a bit of time to develop your character where you can take on the BIG BOSS or buy the best ship or accomplish the goal you've set for yourself. Elite Dangerous however, while it doesn't have boss battles, has many, many more goals you can set for yourself. It takes time to purchase and upgrade your ship so you can accomplish those goals. And it should. If it didn't it would be too easy and people would get bored, and therefore be done, in 10 or 20 or 30 hours of playing.
I believe the opposite.
ED disrespects players time in ways that have been left back in the 1980's by other games. Spaceflight is sometimes the single thing that keeps me going when knocking down the grind-locks that I require to pass, in order to unlock shiny things.
Or indeed the grind-locks that are vital to unlock regardless of any progression at all.
It certainly has something for everyone.
I just enjoy the journey. I'll get that ship I want. Might take some time. But I'll get it. I won't spoil it by doing something repetitive over and over and over being bored to tears while I'm doing it. But if you want to, hey, get it. What you call disrespecting a player's time I call an experience. So let's just say, it disrespects your time. It doesn't disrespect mine. There's a lot of opinion here. So I'll just say, This is my opinion. Your opinion differs. That doesn't mean yours is wrong, but it doesn't mean mine is wrong either. My only concern is people make these sweeping statements like they like they are facts when they aren't. And because they are represented as facts, some people, probably quite a few, won't purchase Elite Dangerous and miss out on something extraordinarily special.
Saying Elite Dangerous disrespects a player's time is an opinion.
Saying you have to be an Ensign in the Federal naval reserve to purchase a Gunship is a fact.
Saying you must grind to get a Beluga is an opinion. I didn't grind and I got one (sold it later for another ship, but I did purchase that Beluga).
Saying the Beluga costs 84.5 million credits is a fact.
If it must be done or costs a certain amount or has happened, it is a fact. If it is the way you feel, it is an opinion.
I did the grind for 6 weeks to purchase an Anaconda: Fact.
The only way you can get an Anaconda is to grind: Opinion.
Lol "arcade game".
If Elite was released in the arcades, the best players would need to change up a good £50 note into coins just to get into a mid range ship. The average player would sink that in just learning to dock.
Just because the level of simulation didn't meet a certain level of ultra complexity required for one subjective view point doesn't mean it's boolean arcade = true.
There's arguing and then there's arguing.
If Elite was released in the arcades, the best players would need to change up a good £50 note into coins just to get into a mid range ship. The average player would sink that in just learning to dock.
Just because the level of simulation didn't meet a certain level of ultra complexity required for one subjective view point doesn't mean it's boolean arcade = true.
There's arguing and then there's arguing.
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I agree that the effects of lockdown are unrealistic. They are also far too easy to achieve. So what we get is that the bottom-feeders in the game know the quickest way to cause disruption to the most players.
But it's murder, not piracy that causes lockdown. Hopefully, the new C&P will make this much harder to achieve.
For me, end-game is a state one reaches where they feel they can get on with doing stuff they enjoy, with equipment they want, and enjoy using.
For me, in lieu of co-operative group missions, end-game is trading fromage à la carte in an unshielded cutter in solo. BUT, when my OCD starts to fade enough to tear me away from cr / hour, I will absolutely indulge my ultimate end-game aspiration : PvE group missions
For me, in lieu of co-operative group missions, end-game is trading fromage à la carte in an unshielded cutter in solo. BUT, when my OCD starts to fade enough to tear me away from cr / hour, I will absolutely indulge my ultimate end-game aspiration : PvE group missions
Indeed, it is a fact we have different opinions. In all probability based on differing ideologies on how to go about most things.
My point is that, whilst opinion, I find it curious that the current ideology is being applied to a game. It would be more at home in an organisation that requires the workforce to perform endless simple tasks in order to receive minimum wage.
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Agreed.
Except that that example isn't a very good one. Where you have a workforce that performs endless simple tasks in order to receive minimum wage, there is no way that they can ever hope to get rich and make more money, nor see anything except the inside of their factory. No so in Elite. You start out in a Sidewinder hauling 4 or 6 tons at a shot. Then after you have some money earned, you move to a hauler and can carry 16 to 18 at a shot. After a a while of earning money, you have enough for a cobra where you can haul 3 times (or a bit more) the hauler's capacity. All the while, you are getting to see different planets, starscapes, stations etc while doing fun things like docking, maneuvering a spacecraft etc.
I couldn’t agree with this post more. I could see if this game had a sub and someone was paying each month for a year before they grinded up the ship if there dreams. I also think of it like getting mad that you paid for CBS All Access and waited to watch Star Trek Discovery each week. Then getting mad at the person that waits until the end of the season, signed up, binge watches it, then cancels.
It would be better if they made the economy react to the increased available seats from station A to B. More seats than passengers, prices fall. Even with that, the distance travelled should come into play like in an actual economy. Smeaton Orbital could make a killing on up charging for fuel. Anyone living in the US knows about the fine print at the bottom of commercials about the increased prices for Alaska and Hawaii. I hear everything is sold at a premium in those states. If you build your space station out in the middle of now where, you’re going to have to make it worth someone’s time to come to you.
Players need a way to pick up some quick cash. Why not do this with the community goals? I flew out to Pleiades Sector HR-W d1-41 to see a damaged space station for myself. Took one look at how much passenger missions paid then EDDB for trading profits. Why isn’t the controlling faction paying out more to get help faster? Or, why doesn’t another faction or galactic power using this has a reason to take control of the system? Again, paying a premium for help.
Your approach doesn't work if you want to fly the largest ships and if you want to do PvP.
To properly outfit the largest ships you need a) go through an insane reputation grind an b) obtain literally billions of credits to afford the modules. If you were playing casually, without focusing on either reputation nor credits, it would take you literally YEARS to get those ships, without exaggeration. Now, you don't have to go for those ships, sure. But some people love large ships specifically. For them this is the endgame.
And when it comes to PvP your build has to be super tight, engineered to very particular requirements and lots and lots of credits to spare for rebuys. This all amounts to hundreds of millions outfitting and maintaining something as simple as Federal Assault Ship, let alone anything larger. Engineering takes MONTHS, even if you play for six hours a day. I am 800 hours in the game and I am yet to unlock all engineers.
So, yes. Credits per hour and efficiency in general is very important in this game, because the numbers are very high for certain aspects of the game. And it makes it feel like a massive grind with little reward at the end of it.