Dove Enigma UA bombed, preventing completion of its voyage in time for the man it was named for.

[Jack Schitt]

I see lots of folks defending, or at least downplaying, the UA bombing on the grounds that it is reversible and/or has no real effect on the overall goal of the mission or the purpose of the memorial. All of which is true.

On the other hand, if it was possible to destroy megaships in this game the Dove Enigma would now be a smoking pile of wreckage assets, quite possibly pushed around to spell out LOL and with a video uploaded to YouTube. I can already hear people crying, "That's just speculation!" Yes it is. But we all know it's 100% on the money. If something can be done in this game, sooner or later someone will do it.

The only unknown here, as far as I know, is the motive of the instigator(s).

If -- and it's a very small if given the scenario -- what happened here was simply someone UA bombing a new in-game asset without awareness the reason for its creation, then it's a shame that it's led to all this. UA bombing is a legitimate game action, just as asset demolition would be if the code permitted it.

But if, as is far more likely, it was an action undertaken with the intent of trolling a cancer victim then it is morally reprehensible. And regardless of any efforts by the community to reverse it, regardless of which way FD decide to move, regardless of whether certain members of the community actively relish their own amorality, it remains a morally reprehensible action. No amount of analysis will change that.

 

[nexxo]

From the desk of my lovely better half, Mrs Goose4291

“I’m really sorry that this man had cancer. I can’t imagine what kind of hell he has had to suffer and what life holds for him. However. Here we go. I’m now going to be regarded as somewhat contentious. He is playing an online game with hundreds of thousands of players and he is still an active participant. Here’s the controversial part: why should his illness matter? If he hadn’t told you, you wouldn’t know. It doesn’t impact his game. It might impact his commitment to the game on a long term but at the same time why should people treat him differently?

I can understand that point of view, but the thing is: he (through his friends) did tell us of his illness, because this game is a meaningful source of comfort and social support to him, and in doing so he made himself emotionally vulnerable to this game community.

Some people recognised that vulnerability and whatever their personal opinions about the game or the appropriateness of this initiative, were respectful and considerate of it --because regardless of how smart and insightful we think we are about the human condition, at the end there's someone suffering and seeking comfort and support, no? And wisdom is more about compassion than armchair philosophy.

A few saw that vulnerability and decided to dump all over it. Make of that what you will.

This is why I would generally advise against these sorts of initiatives, that shine a spotlight on someone's personal suffering. A campaign for a cancer charity is fine; one for a named person is tricky, because it is inevitably personal for that person, while it is not for some anonymous spoiling things just for shiggles.

I subscribe to Pat Cadigan's principle: "Here [in VR], there can only be lies". Keep real life and virtual life absolutely separate, because some people simple cannot straddle both realities at once and keep them boundaried (some people are just really poor at recognising and keeping boundaries). There is inevitable leakage, and things get messy.

 

[chagnampra]

I see lots of folks defending, or at least downplaying, the UA bombing on the grounds that it is reversible and/or has no real effect on the overall goal of the mission or the purpose of the memorial. All of which is true....

... it remains a morally reprehensible action. No amount of analysis will change that.

What he said. +1 rep

 

[Kayweg]

The main reason for this outrage is not because of the game mechanics (you can go through the gigs of discussion on this elsewhere). It is over the fact that there are some in this community who would like to ruin a terminal cancer patients last few weeks in the game before they pass. The fact that because someone is dying and that they get special treatment for it seems to have got some troll get jealous of the attention. Maybe we all had the hoped that the community might be better than this but I guess not, especially when people seem to agree with the trolls who are undertaking this action.

Well put.
Hopefully a lesson is learned here.
Don't make the personal tragedy of people game content.
I know everyone involved meant well, but some things should be left in the hands in which they belong.
The loved ones and friends of the guy.
To believe a group of total strangers would just be able to handle this ethically and emotionally delicate situation in a responsible way was utterly naive at best.
I go a step furter and say it was reckless.
Keep this stuff out of games, period.

 

[CMDR Britpacked]

Just joined the forum to let you know I’ll help o7

 

[DarkPaladin]

I've been on a break for a few weeks, although I still read the forums. After reading about this, I logged in, jumped into my long range Conda, filled it with meta alloys and renamed her "FOR DOVE".

I don't use neutron jumps but I've got an engineered FSD and a big fuel scoop. I'll be jumping for the next 12 hours or until I start falling asleep at the controls. Enough with the negativity, I'm off to do something positive.

304t of Meta Alloy just delivered. Took me 12.5 hours, although that includes more than half a dozen 5 minute breaks and a half hour to eat dinner. Glad to be able to help out with this! Fly safe all those on the way!

 

[Jorge Palu]

On the subreddit, I replied to Dove Enigma, the response I got was absolutely awful. No matter your perspective on this, this is unacceptable.

Spoiler

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/236246596810047494/407973787863351307/doveengima.png

Er.. You trolled him old mate.... Don't know why you are looking for sympathy..

 

[TheSynopticVision]

The Objections:

1) This UA bombing has no practical effect whatsoever on the Enigma Expedition, since even with the megaship under lockdown the expedition members will still be able to dock with Dove Enigma, to use it as a final waypoint, to take screenshots next to it, and so on.

2) Frontier should probably have foreseen this, and removed the black market from the megaship to begin with. Although I suspect they simply did not see this coming, and reused one of the megaships assets they've got -- with all of its features. For ex. Fisher's Rest (introduced in-game after Carrie Fisher's death last year) has got a black market.

3) UA bombing is not in violation of any in-game or meta-game rule. It's a legitimate gameplay mechanic.

4) In a way, this event offers the possibility to many more Cmdrs to contribute to the expedition, and it has certainly highly enhanced its visibility -- many people here were not even aware that it was taking place.

4) This UA bombing has produced a lot of anger which has led many members of the non-trolling part of the community to use exaggerated tones that go beyond voicing moral outrage and step into the more reprehensible field of veiled threats, insults, and witch-hunting -- in this thread and elsewhere. (Personally, I did not like but fully excuse whatever Dove Enigma himself has said: if I was burdened with the very real threat of death I most likely would have zero patience or self-control towards random internet trolls).​

All of the above is true

But, none of the above in any way undermines or invalidates this simple and crystal-clear fact: Tha UA bombing of Dove Enigma was carefully planned and painstakingly executed (with or without exploits -- that's irrelevant) with one very explicit intent: to make some people upset. To make upset the people taking part in a charity expedition with no in-game-politics significance whatsoever and, in particular, an individual with a serious illness and who could be living the last few months of his life.

This is not a "moralist" argument. I am stating the facts (and they have, in fact, succeeded in making these people upset). I am not saying that to have a life-threatening illness gives you a somehow higher moral standing (we are all human beings) putting you beyond critique. I am not saying that now all Cmdrs should either stop doing whatever they are doing and haul to Dove Enigma or they are to be branded by the mob as morally crooked individuals. I am personally very sad about Dove's anger about all this (to be angry with internet trolls should not be an emotion he should be dealing with now). But the larger point here is not about Dove Enigma, and not about the expedition. It is about those attention-seeking, immature, and obnoxious individuals who thought it would be fun to "mine salt" in this way (and about those who use this event as a trolling opportunity now). And it should be an occasion for us all as a community to calmly but firmly react to them.

Now, I've argued before at great length that (griefers' sneers notwithstanding) in-game actions do have a moral significance (it's not just "pixels on a screen") and that indeed the kind of actions one chooses to perform in a virtual environment do suggest a certain real-life personality. I cannot think of a better example to substantiate both theses.

Frankly, I got tired of debating these topics, since no amount of argument will convince certain people. So now it's pretty clear to me that anyone who uses any of the above true objections to somehow imply that -- after all -- there was nothing really wrong or objectionable with the UA bombing is quite simply a person I have no interest in ever interacting with. And, if I can be allowed to give you all an advice, neither should you. Don't threaten, don't insult, don't bite. Start making a list for your ignore function. These people should be laughed out of this community. Better still, remember their names (and it's always the usual pathetic suspects) and what they are saying in this occasion, and from now on simply use a stock reply for whatever they write, in this thread or in any future one: "You are a toxic individual and you are not welcome in this community".

 

[Sir.Tj]

Hi Everyone.

Frontier have made and official response can be found here

Dove Enigma and the Enigma Expedition

Thanks.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Hi Everyone.

Frontier have made and official response can be found here

Dove Enigma and the Enigma Expedition

Thanks.

Thanks T.j - not your fault for once

 

[Red Anders]

Thanks T.j - not your fault for once

Don't be hasty...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Hi Everyone.

Frontier have made and official response can be found here

Dove Enigma and the Enigma Expedition

Thanks.

I personally want to thank you CM and Zac crafting that response.

 

[M. Volgrand]

From my point of view: The people that delivered the UAs have actually made a great service to the community. Commander Enigma must be amazed that tens or hundreds of commanders (including me) are leaving any activity they are doing to rush to Colonia to fix the Dove Enigma.

 

[Maya Fey]

Emergent gameplay emerges.
Stop crying and do something about it if it is important to you.

They are doing something, thank you. I can not handle this superiority attitude.

And this angers me so much that I will remove myself from the forum till it's solved. No, I don't have a Conda, I don't have the time to fly 15 000 ly, I have to work in real life, I was not participating in this event because I DON'T HAVE THE TIME. Working, family, responsibilities, you know... Don't use your condescendent tone to justify what is a depicable, disgusting and totally stupid action wich only objective is to sabotage a beautiful gesture in a really hard moment.

 

[Majic-12]

I personally want to thank you CM and Zac crafting that response.

Indeed. Nicely done.

From my point of view: The people that delivered the UAs have actually made a great service to the community. Commander Enigma must be amazed that tens or hundreds of commanders (including me) are leaving any activity they are doing to rush to Colonia to fix the Dove Enigma.

A brilliant example of creating a silver lining rather than living under a cloud.

Also nicely done.

 

[VerticalBlank]

This is my last post in this thread. Like others, I have lost family recently, thus I'm understandably angry at the people who did this. I'm also disappointed in Frontier for not enforcing their own rules of conduct: this was a personal attack against the players themselves. They did it to be disruptive, to cause anger, to bully a community of players, and a dying man's wish to have a positive experience. Hopefully, he'll still get it, but I fear his emotions got the better of him - as evidenced by his responses thus far -, and what should have been a joyous ride was marred by idiotic, possibly sociopathic players. I'd like to think these are immature children, but the odds and experience tell me these are adults. Much can be said about them and the people who think this is funny. "It's just a game" doesn't cut it. Yes, it is a game. But the circumstance is not, and it was made public for good reason. Also, it doesn't matter if what they did is mechanically permissible. Be it UA bombing or any other means of disruption, what matters is their INTENT; that they purposefully aimed to harm others and produce outrage. Within and without. It had nothing to do with enjoying the game or being antagonistic to other players' characters. This is why they should've been punished. Their intention is obvious, and yet Frontier chose to let it be. I do not wish ill for the people responsible for it. As an atheist, I know there's little causality between wickedness and disease, but if they ever become ill, I'd wish them the best in spite of their past behavior toward others. Finally, some have been quick to judge others: I'm not perfect, neither do I wish to be (or pretend to). Some things in life are simply wrong, and this is my take on it. It saddens me that a small but vocal portion of the player base is given free rein to hurt others unchecked.

I've made my argument. I believe it is a strong argument.

Very well said. It is way past time for Frontier to clean house.

 

[CMDR-SM]

As a member in the Enigma Expedition Thanks to all commanders you will come to help us. I really cant back now to Maia and return in time, for me is difficult just arrived in time at 4 February. Thanks a lot. We have a great community.

 

[JosiahD]

Notwithstanding the laudable efforts of numerous CMDRs to reverse the UA bombing, I think the answer is simple here - Frontier needs to simply give the finger to the griefers, immediately remove the UA bombing effects and make that mega ship immune to future UA action. I wouldn't normally condone such god power use, but in this case the griefers need to be demonstrably and unambiguously given a message that their level of toxicity is not wanted here. Period.

 

[nexxo]

From my point of view: The people that delivered the UAs have actually made a great service to the community. Commander Enigma must be amazed that tens or hundreds of commanders (including me) are leaving any activity they are doing to rush to Colonia to fix the Dove Enigma.

"Food banks are a wonderful demonstration of how compassionate British society is" --Jacob Rees-Mogg, Conservative MP :/

The people who delivered the UA are d***s. It is the community that performed the great service.

 

[Majic-12]

In my experience, online "trolls" do what they do because it gives them a sense of empowerment that they don't have offline.

Oftentimes, they are themselves victims of abuse for whom trolling offers an emotional outlet. As the saying goes, misery loves company, and happy, well-adjusted people don't tend to be trolls.

What trolls ultimately seek is control over the behavior of others, and they enjoy nothing more than watching people dance to their antics like puppets on strings. The stronger the response, the greater the feeling of control.

Reactions give them relevance and constitute the payoff for their efforts. Hence the inadvisability of rewarding them with histrionics.

Which, of course, is the last thing anyone wants to hear when they're in the middle of a righteous crusade, so they tend to reject such advice and sink ever deeper into a self-feeding spiral of indignation, insularity and denial.

That, in turn, reinforces the power of trolling, and thus the symbiotic circle becomes complete.



"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche