I love the game but FD ignoring 95% of folks and caving to 1% makes me want to walk away.

[Deleted member 115407]

I was elated at the thought of a Type 7 with a 61Ly JR.

A Type 7 with a 61Ly jump range is absurd, OP.
As is a Type 7 that goes 500m/s (unmodded).

I can see an upped plant, to give it some extra power to play with. Maybe a one or two class bump in distro, to help it with mining.

But fully laden, mid-class cargo vessel jumping 40Ly is, as I said, absurd.

Go buy an Orca.

P.S. I guarantee you that "95%" of folks are not asking for the Type 7 to be buffed to levels of absurdity. Most just want it to be a little more competitive in its class.

 

[Sylveria]

Then ask them without the surrounding strawmen.

What "strawmen"? I'm simply asking what your expectation is of how long you think it should take, because you've clearly stated that it's disappointing to you, and what you'd expect to see along the way, because you've also clearly stated that what you describe as "loading screens" increase tedium.

I've told you there's plenty of other things to "engage" in along the way, and you disagree- so I'm asking for some clarification. If you consider that "strawmen" then apparently there's nothing anyone will be able to discuss with you. However, if you'd like to roll this back a notch and perhaps stop implying that other people "don't know how to read", which might lead to more civil discourse, I'd be happy to discuss this further.

 

[Karunamon]

What "strawmen"?

This one:

Are you expecting instant travel to the galactic core?

The one that indicates you didn't even read the damn post. You know, this one. The thing I never said or implied.

I've told you there's plenty of other things to "engage" in along the way, and you disagree- so I'm asking for some clarification.

I'm just going to self quote here, because I literally just covered this:


15 second FSD charge, 5 second countdown, 15 second average jump time, 8 second cooldown, repeat times number of jumps. That's only the completely dead do-nothing time, not counting fuel scooping, actual exploration, etc.

Is that clear enough? Bring up your galaxy map, plot a trip.

43 seconds * jump count is how much time you will spend doing absolutely nothing on the trip. If you're making ten jumps, that's just under 7 minutes. 100 jumps? Little over an hour. 1000 jumps? You get the idea.

Fuel scooping is not doing nothing. Exploration is not doing nothing. Those are not where my main problem lies.

Waiting out an artificial timer is doing nothing. Either give me something to do during the 80+% of a trip I have to sit on my hands, reduce that do-nothing time, or reduce the trip duration. Any of those are acceptable. Tweaking global FSD rates is probably the simplest one.

It's not that it takes a long time to get there, it's that it takes a long time to get there, during which a great majority of the time I'm expected to literally not play the game.

 

[Iskariot]

Because you would then be forced to use it?
Presumably you could use a ship you thought has more 'charisma'.
Why deny others the choice, who lack your aesthetic refinement - and would settle for simple proletariat function over form.

No I would not be forced to use it (I have used it as the freighter it is). It just is not an X ship and does not project that in any way, shape, or form either.

As I said:
I'd rather see FDev add some dedicated exploration related slots to certain X ships to enhance their usability in the exploration role.
And perhaps FDev could add a medium and large X ship too the fleet too.

Why deny others the choice, who lack your aesthetic refinement - and would settle for simple proletariat function over form

If that is the argument, then I want my Federal Corvette to have a 60 ly jump range too. It would be great for exploration then.
Because Why deny me the choice? You see the problem?

 

[Sylveria]

This one:

The one that indicates you didn't even read the damn post. You know, this one. The thing I never said or implied.

I'm just going to self quote here, because I literally just covered this:


15 second FSD charge, 5 second countdown, 15 second average jump time, 8 second cooldown, repeat times number of jumps. That's only the completely dead do-nothing time, not counting fuel scooping, actual exploration, etc.

Is that clear enough? Bring up your galaxy map, plot a trip.

43 seconds * jump count is how much time you will spend doing absolutely nothing on the trip. Fuel scooping is not doing nothing. Exploration is not doing nothing.

Waiting out an artificial timer is doing nothing.

I read the post. I just disagree with your assessment. Disagreement doesn't imply I "don't know how to read".

15 second FSD charge = you don't think the FSD should take time to charge?
5 second cooldown = needed for game balance. See other applications, such as combat engagement, etc.
15 second average jumptime = you're expecting to appear instantly? Seriously?
8 second cooldown = for what, exactly? I thought you said it was 5 seconds?

Did I miss anything here? I don't see anything "artificial".

 

[Karunamon]

I read the post. I just disagree with your assessment. Disagreement doesn't imply I "don't know how to read".

15 second FSD charge = you don't think the FSD should take time to charge?
5 second cooldown = needed for game balance. See other applications, such as combat engagement, etc.
15 second average jumptime = you're expecting to appear instantly? Seriously?
8 second cooldown = for what, exactly? I thought you said it was 5 seconds?

Did I miss anything here? I don't see anything "artificial".

What is there to disagree with? Is that not an objective analysis of the time it takes to initiate a jump to a single system?

 

[Mengy]

You don't understand - that 5 hours of nothing is literal nothing.. staring at loading screens. I can do other stuff between those loading screens, but there will be at minimum, five hours of loading screens on a trip to Sag*A.

15 second FSD charge, 5 second countdown, 15 second average jump time, 8 second cooldown, repeat times number of jumps. That's only the completely dead do-nothing time, not counting fuel scooping, actual exploration, etc.

This is why I love neutron jumps so much, they break up the monotony with some actual gameplay and decision making. I wish there were more neutrons throughout the galaxy for this reason, lol.

It's also why I'd love to see fuel scooping made more interactive, with solar flares to dodge and such.

 

[Karunamon]

What is there to disagree with? Is that not an objective analysis of the time it takes to initiate a jump to a single system?

Why does it take 5 seconds to jump after you literally just spent three times that amount of time charging your drive, potentially being attacked, etc?

We already know that the hyperspace time is literally a load screen during the instance transition. Technical reasons, not gameplay ones.

8 second cooldown = for what, exactly? I thought you said it was 5 seconds?

Countdown and cooldown are two different words. There's that "not reading my damn post" problem I mentioned earlier. You know the little timer that comes up in the center of your screen that starts at 005.000 when you jump? The "5...4..3...2...1... Engage whoosh" thing? That's the 5 second countdown.

You know that little timer in the bottom right during which you can't use your FSD again? That's the 8 second cooldown.

This is why I love neutron jumps so much, they break up the monotony with some actual gameplay and decision making. I wish there were more neutrons throughout the galaxy for this reason, lol.

It's also why I'd love to see fuel scooping made more interactive, with solar flares to dodge and such.

Yesssss so much this. Perhaps even tying plain old stars into it somehow (like you align with the star in a certain way and it gives you some token amount of boost, or less fuel use, or something).

 

[Sylveria]

What is there to disagree with? Is that not an objective analysis of the time it takes to initiate a jump to a single system?

The disagreement is caused by how you assess the amount of time involved- in which I detailed responses for each amount of time. The only thing I'm not sure of is why you've included two cooldowns (?) but as to the rest- as I've stated, there's nothing "artificial" about it. If you view it as thus, then I'd love to see your own counter-proposal as to how much time you think things should take.

EDIT: Countdown. Gotcha. Sorry, didn't see your latest response.

Charging FSD is different from a cooldown after you've jumped. And as to the "countdown", why didn't you include the 5 seconds into the FSD charging? Just round it to 20 seconds. There you go.

Is the 5 second "countdown" your entire sticking point here?

 

[Lee Archer]

The jump range of the T7 isn’t the issue what it needed was for the devs to do a properly formulated revamp of the design allowing the ship to finally use medium pads, it could have quite easily been factored into the thargoid story along the lines of

“In a move that has shocked the ship building industry throughout the bubble a spokesman for LAKON announced earlier today”

“Due to the outbreak of hostilities between humanity and the alien race known as ‘the thargoids’ we at LAKON realised the T7 trading vessel was in urgent need of modifications. As the thargoids have begun a series of strikes against stations in human controlled space and urgent calls have been issued for rescue and rebuilding it quickly became apparent the T7 could be far more useful if it was slightly redesigned. There have been many requests to address the T7 since it’s launch, we at LAKON have taken onboard the suggestions and as a result These modifications will allow the vessel to utilise medium pads upon landing at stations and bases.
As with all things in ship building there has been some give and take and to accommodate the new design the cargo capacity of the T7 will be slightly reduced but this reduction in mass will result in an increase in the T7s jump range, this will coincide with a revamp of the over all frameshift drive giving the T7 a boost of around 20%.

As a show of good faith to the spacefaring community and our loyal customers LAKON will exchange any old T7 for a revamped T7 when the older model is presented to one of our dealerships. This exchange will be done free of charge and we will include the movement of the owners existing ship modules to their new ship. All new T7 purchased from this point forward will be of the new T7 model.

LAKON is proud of its standing within the ship building industry and we feel the new T7 continues our traditions and history”.

Very,Very good, that is the emergent spirit that would make this a virtual world slow travel times and all.

Does anyone not feel the need for a from square one Astronomical Reconnaissance or research vessel?
With maybe no weapons ability at all just slots for exploration gear and artifacts/sample/ ores
I don’t get why not but
Yes it has been pointed out that my Beluga will do the job.
It’s the artistry that’s missing then, like a cruise ship with a plastic bubble instead of the U.S.S. Enterprise.
Just seems we could have a premier exploration ship,
Every other occupation has one, military and trade transport, passenger transport, diplomatic transport/ luxury
No, it seems I have to “cobble” together a ship from a cruise liner
Which can be cool, I’m using a cheap bare bones cargo ship for exploration in another sim, but it’s due to cost not availability.

Anyways that’s what would make me buy some more skins and name plates and decals and take some screenshots
For fun. Not really faster gameplay when you include a possible ranking wall, say elite, or earnings required
Hey
Work with me across the isle
#the guy wants a dedicated exploration top tier ship in Elite dangerous with no weapons

 

[Penny Umbra]

Are you really saying that having a trip to the core take 4.5 rather than 6.7 hours of real time (of which 5.8 of them is staring at a loading screen, hands off controls, no input from the player, literally nothing for you to do other than twiddle your thumbs or watch Spaceflix) would negatively impact your enjoyment?

YES of course it would, although I don't know what "spaceflix" is, I do know what sitting at the edge of my seat, wiping sweat off my palms, striving to make minimum time jumps every single time like the thousand times before is.

IT'S GLORIOUS!

Have you never tried it Karunamon? Taken a ship as far as you can, as fast as you can, one eye on the stopwatch beside you, total focus?

You should think about it at least.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

No I would not be forced to use it (I have used it as the freighter it is). It just is not an X ship and does not project that in any way, shape, or form either.

As I said:
I'd rather see FDev add some dedicated exploration related slots to certain X ships to enhance their usability in the exploration role.
And perhaps FDev could add a medium and large X ship too the fleet too.



If that is the argument, then I want my Federal Corvette to have a 60 ly jump range too. It would be great for exploration then.
Because Why deny me the choice? You see the problem?

and I want 6 huge weapon mounts on my sidewinder and an SLF

 

[Karunamon]

Charging FSD is different from a cooldown after you've jumped. And as to the "countdown", why didn't you include the 5 seconds into the FSD charging? Just round it to 20 seconds. There you go.

Because those are distinct phases of the process and each would be approached differently.

Charge time can be increased by mass lock, but AFAICT there's nothing that ever lowers it beyond that 15 threshold when high waking.

The 5 second countdown doesn't even seem necessary.

The actual jump time is a facade over an instance transition.

Cooldown time is just kinda there.. nothing effects it.

Is the 5 second "countdown" your entire sticking point here?

No, my sticking point is that those 4 things I described consume the majority of the time you will spend on a long distance haul, rather than playing the game. I ran the numbers for my AspX a long time ago.. for the 12 hour trip to Sag*A in my AspX:
12 hour trip (which is probably fine)
10.4 hours of which are loading screens
1.6 hours spent fuel scooping

I want to attack that 10.4 number somehow, whether it be by lowering the trip duration, putting something to do in there, anything.

 

[Mengy]

With regard to the OP’s point, I too was excited at the concept of an exploration T-7 with jump range rivaling the Anaconda. I hate the Anaconda as an exploration ship due to it’s poor visibility and sluggish supercruise performance, yet it remains the most capable exploration ship in the game due to it’s “best in fleet” jump range and abundant internal space. A T-7 which could jump alongside the Anaconda would have finally given me a competitive option with a great view out the front. I’m sorry Frontier is fixing their fantastic mistake.

I’d love to see the two ships with the word “Explorer” in their names more capable (or at least AS capable) than the multirole Anaconda. Nerfing the people’s favorite isn’t an option I like, I’d rather simply see both the Asp X and the DBX get their hull mass reduced slightly to allow their jump ranges to rival the Anaconda, or even very slightly beat it. That alone would do wonders for explorer options, but I’d also like to see some other choices too, a few other ships with jump ranges up around the Anaconda’s. Preferably new exploration centric ships, like an Imperial Explorer and an Alliance exploration craft. I’m not really in favor of anything jumping leaps and bounds more than the Anaconda though, maybe at most one or two lys more but nothing extreme. I feel like the Anaconda’s range should remain the target point for exploration ships in general, we really don’t need to jump farther than that IMHO.

Maybe for the Q4 exploration revamp Frontier can do some tweaking into this matter. That would be great.

 

[Iskariot]

Very,Very good, that is the emergent spirit that would make this a virtual world slow travel times and all.

Does anyone not feel the need for a from square one Astronomical Reconnaissance or research vessel?
With maybe no weapons ability at all just slots for exploration gear and artifacts/sample/ ores

You are on to something there.
What I would like is some scientific/exploration devices that need to be mounted in a hard point.

An example would be an actual modeled camera device that you need to use to take pictures of all kinds of stuff to get paid.
You would need to deliver the pictures to a science station perhaps.
You might take open exploration mission of all kinds from a client in such a scientific station.

Such a camera device would also be a great tool for military and corporate espionage missions. You might have to photograph military sites, military ships and fleets, stations, satellites etc. etc.

 

[verminstar]

come on dude that is not honest. OP is complaining because people in BETA gave feedback that they did not think a T7 should be a better exploration ship than a dedicated exploration ship and called them crybabies, whilst at the same time throwing toys out of pram way more than anyone else in this thread.

he also made statistics up from nowhere decreeing he spoke for the 95% majority and that it is only the 1% who didnt like it.
hell, i didnt even have a 61LY jump range T7, i just take umbrage at the dishonesty in the OP.

as for the subset of players feeling they are more important... again, please try to be honest..... FD sold a product in kickstarter and they were VERY clear about the flavour that the game was meant to deliver.

I suspect I am one of the vocal folk you dislike so.. but it is not about me thinking my view is better than anyones.... I just want to see the DEVS opinions that they sold the game on put into practice and see how those features pan out before taking the game down a totally different path.

And yet Ive seen plenty examples on this very forum...its actually the reason I stopped using the forums cos Im sick and tired seeing whine thread after whine thread. First time ion two years I actually sympathize with the devs and admins who deal with it every single day.

Theres currently the vibe that if ye find a good cash loop to not say anything on this forum...quite a few have said that. Is that a healthy outlook to have? No...but even Im paranoid about saying I have me own little 'exploit' that I simply wont share on this forum cos I know exactly what will happen. The whining will begin and a week later, it gets nerfed. Once or twice isolated incidents of it is one thing...consistently again and again however is no coincidence.

Im not complaining about it, just commenting on what I do absolutely believe is the case...of course its gonna be denied...nobody in their right mind would admit it to be true but its happening all the same regardless what excuse is thrown at it.

Anyway...said me piece and wont say any more...the forums just dont interest me enough to waste time arguing about it ^

 

[Lee Archer]

and I want 6 huge weapon mounts on my sidewinder and an SLF

What, I don’t follow.

Oh wait, trolling-
Are you Foreign agent
Sowing division to bring about strong leader, cause I hate following orders and am a lost cause for that sort of thing.

Oh that wasn’t for me- that useful sarcasm was aimed elsewhere, good, cause I thought I fell into a mirror universe.

 

[Sylveria]

With regard to the OP’s point, I too was excited at the concept of an exploration T-7 with jump range rivaling the Anaconda. I hate the Anaconda as an exploration ship due to it’s poor visibility and sluggish supercruise performance, yet it remains the most capable exploration ship in the game due to it’s “best in fleet” jump range and abundant internal space. A T-7 which could jump alongside the Anaconda would have finally given me a competitive option with a great view out the front. I’m sorry Frontier is fixing their fantastic mistake.

I’d love to see the two ships with the word “Explorer” in their names more capable (or at least AS capable) than the multirole Anaconda. Nerfing the people’s favorite isn’t an option I like, I’d rather simply see both the Asp X and the DBX get their hull mass reduced slightly to allow their jump ranges to rival the Anaconda, or even very slightly beat it. That alone would do wonders for explorer options, but I’d also like to see some other choices too, a few other ships with jump ranges up around the Anaconda’s. Preferably new exploration centric ships, like an Imperial Explorer and an Alliance exploration craft. I’m not really in favor of anything jumping leaps and bounds more than the Anaconda though, maybe at most one or two lys more but nothing extreme. I feel like the Anaconda’s range should remain the target point for exploration ships in general, we really don’t need to jump farther than that IMHO.

Maybe for the Q4 exploration revamp Frontier can do some tweaking into this matter. That would be great.

Regarding the Anaconda... it's quite amusing that even after FD's admittance that it wasn't meant to be as capable in terms of jump range people still bring out the torches and pitchforks when proposals are meant to correct it. Problem is, they haven't (so far) shown much willingness to buff the other ships so that multiroles don't overshadow them. We'll see what the future brings, but so far I'm not convinced that it's even a direction they're going to take.

I too, would love to see more Exploration love- they've hinted at hit for this year, but we'll see what the manifestation is in time. I'm not expecting a miracle, though.

 

[Valorin]

I really don't get the whole idea of this thread. I mean, a freighter accidentally ended up as an exploration ship due to changes in a beta. It's like a bug that has been fixed. Like a Hauler with a huge hardpoint this was wrong right from the start and has been corrected. End of story.

 

[EISENHORN01]

Very,Very good, that is the emergent spirit that would make this a virtual world slow travel times and all.

Does anyone not feel the need for a from square one Astronomical Reconnaissance or research vessel?
With maybe no weapons ability at all just slots for exploration gear and artifacts/sample/ ores
I don’t get why not but
Yes it has been pointed out that my Beluga will do the job.
It’s the artistry that’s missing then, like a cruise ship with a plastic bubble instead of the U.S.S. Enterprise.
Just seems we could have a premier exploration ship,
Every other occupation has one, military and trade transport, passenger transport, diplomatic transport/ luxury
No, it seems I have to “cobble” together a ship from a cruise liner
Which can be cool, I’m using a cheap bare bones cargo ship for exploration in another sim, but it’s due to cost not availability.

Anyways that’s what would make me buy some more skins and name plates and decals and take some screenshots
For fun. Not really faster gameplay when you include a possible ranking wall, say elite, or earnings required
Hey
Work with me across the isle
#the guy wants a dedicated exploration top tier ship in Elite dangerous with no weapons

Again it’s been asked for countless times by the community and with a little imagination could easily be written into the lore of the game. The redevelopment of the explorer class ships could easily be explained by

“the spokesperson for LAKON then went on to say”

”The T7 series is not the only vessel in our range we plan to improve. One such ship is the Diamondback explorer.

Our reasoning behind this is that it is now more important than ever for humanity to explore the galaxy in search of possible planets for future colonisation and the extraction of what will be much needed resources in view of the growing alien threat. As a result we aim to improve the jump range of the DBX (using the same technologies and techniques developed during our T7 revamp). The hope is to do so without affecting the DBX ability to defend itself in what is now a far more dangerous galaxy, our design team have also been tasked with a complete redesign of the module system on the DBX allowing for an increased ability to fit scanning systems with no detriment to the larger module slots on the ship. The full attention of our design team has now been turned to this venture and we hope to begin production of the new ships within months.

Though this is an uncertain time for humanity we want to assure you that LAKON is doing its utmost to provide a brighter future for us all’.



Just remember the moves forward in shipbuilding and design that occurred during WW2 an unfortunate side effect of war is often huge strides forwards in technologies such as shipbuilding and medicines, it’s not a great leap of faith to believe the same things would happen in the future.