Sell me a "big three" ship

[Aristides]

He hits an Asp Scout at pretty close range with all of them, which is about half the width *and* length of the hyperbolic bar you set, the T-10.
You are moving goalposts.
They converge fine.

They really don't. Only the C1s and the C4s converge well. The C3 and C1s are okay, but the spread starts to suck a close range. The C2s are just too far apart.

If you fly a Vette, drop beams on the C1 - C3s and pay attention to how often you're hitting with all of them. Or drop rails on the hard points and check out how things line up during a close range scan. Then consider how often your going to be hitting that FDL that's clocking 550+ m/s with all 5 hard points. You'll find that convergence is lacking.

Its not a problem for PvE (the Vette is in fact a PvE monster), but in a PvP it effectively diminishes the ship's fire power. The marginal maneuverability advantages the Vette has don't make up for it and the ship isn't fast enough to control range in a way the would compensate.

I'd really love the see a Vette buff that goes beyond a better jump range.

 

[Ziljan]

He hits an Asp Scout at pretty close range with all of them, which is about half the width *and* length of the hyperbolic bar you set, the T-10.
You are moving goalposts.
They converge fine.

You have a rather strange definition of "Converging fine". You cite the Asp Scout as "small" when it's one of the widest targets in the game. Up close the Corvette fixed mediums barely cover the Asp Scouts widest presentation, which means they only fit comfortably (ie with a reasonable margin of error) inside a target as wide as a T9 or Clipper. Breidis says as much in the video you cited.

From the video you cited:

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

You have a rather strange definition of "Converging fine". You cite the Asp Scout as "small" when it's one of the widest targets in the game. Up close the Corvette fixed mediums barely cover the Asp Scouts widest presentation, which means they only fit comfortably (ie with a reasonable margin of error) inside a target as wide as a T9 or Clipper. Breidis says as much in the video you cited.

http://www.janichsan.de/ED_Ship_Chart_White_V2_3.png

From the video you cited:
https://i.imgur.com/gbRwYkN.jpg

LOL, it's about 1/4 the size of the T-10, or the T-9 right below it.
As such saying it's "one of the widest" is pretty funny.
"Up close" is what you were on about earlier.
The Asp just happened to be a clear example and an easy search result.
It's easier further away...
At 4:12 it looks like he hits the corner just fine, with all of them.

It's 54.8 x 59.4 vs 135 x 118 for the T-10.
That's ~half in either dimension.
If I can hit small ships with all four rails on mine, it certainly converges "fine".
What you claimed is objectively false, hyperbole or not.

 

[Mrat13]

An Anaconda could replace your entire fleet, and has access to SLFs. Only thing it can't do, is land at an M pad, but you don't buy a big ship to land at outposts.

You probably still won't want one, but the choice is most definitely there. No other big ship is quite as versatile as the Annie, and you don't have to play grind your face on the navy rank either, which is definitely a bonus.

 

[Ziljan]

LOL, it's about 1/4 the size of the T-10, or the T-9 right below it.
As such saying it's "one of the widest" is pretty funny.
"Up close" is what you were on about earlier.
The Asp just happened to be a clear example and an easy search result.
It's easier further away...

It's 54.8 x 59.4 vs 135 x 118 for the T-10.
That's ~half in either dimension.
If I can hit small ships with all four rails on mine, it certainly converges "fine".
What you claimed is objectively false, hyperbole or not.

The Asp Scout may have a small ship weapon loadout, but it is a Medium pad ship. In any case, half the length/width of the biggest square target in the game is neither objectively nor subjectively "small". There are only a handful of ships in the game that are wider than the Asp S, so your Corvette's fixed mediums and large will fail to converge on most targets in the game at typical combat ranges and angles.

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to sell the Corvette's mediums as suitable for fixed use. You are free to do whatever you'd like of course, but no reasonable person would recommend anyone except a crack marksman use fixed weapons on Corvette outside of the C1s and C4s. And even then you're limiting your effective ToT and hence gimping your already low DPS even against large/medium targets, never mind the lost DPS vs small targets.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The Asp Scout may have a small ship weapon loadout, but it is a Medium pad ship. In any case, half the length/width of the biggest square target in the game is neither objectively nor subjectively "small". There are only a handful of ships in the game that are wider than the Asp S, so your Corvette's fixed mediums and large will fail to converge on most targets in the game at typical combat ranges and angles.

I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to sell the Corvette's mediums as suitable for fixed use. You are free to do whatever you'd like of course, but no reasonable person would recommend anyone except a crack marksman use fixed weapons on Corvette outside of the C1s and C4s. And even then you're limiting your effective ToT and hence gimping your already low DPS even against large/medium targets, never mind the lost DPS vs small targets.

I'm not trying to sell anything.
I am simply objecting to your hyperbolic and false information.


The Asp in question is much closer to the Dolphin in width, than the T-10; a difference of ~30m vs ~50 m.
The Dolphin is one of "the narrowest" ships.
That makes your follow up statement blatantly false as well, the shifting goalposts notwithstanding.
It's just not one of the widest ships at all and it is a lot smaller than a T-10.
Simple.

I'm far from a crack marksman and have no (extra) problem landing rail shots from the C2s.
You are just saying stuff with no evidence in support, and objective facts to the contrary.

It would make a fun test, to see what ships can actually fit in between those hardpoints and at what ranges.

 

[Mrat13]

I'm not trying to sell anything.
I am simply objecting to your hyperbolic and false information.


The Asp in question is much closer to the Dolphin in width, than the T-10; a difference of ~30m vs ~50 m.
The Dolphin is one of "the narrowest" ships.
That makes your follow up statement blatantly false as well, the shifting goalposts notwithstanding.
It's just not one of the widest ships at all and it is a lot smaller than a T-10.
Simple.

I'm far from a crack marksman and have no (extra) problem landing rail shots from the C2s.
You are just saying stuff with no evidence in support, and objective facts to the contrary.

It would make a fun test, to see what ships can actually fit in between those hardpoints and at what ranges.

I'd suggest also comparing it to an Annie. You might understand why people don't like the T10 then.

 

[Red Anders]

How do I switch ships but leave the engineering items in storage on the old one? So leave all the engineer type items in cargo and switch to a ship with no cargo racks? Otherwise the cargo transfers to the new ship as I recall. I never thought of this!

Do you mean just the cargo type of stuff? I know the data anomalies go with me to each ship I switch to. Can those be left on the old ship somehow too?

No he means leaving modules that you have already engineered but don't want to equip (or can't equip) on the ship you're currently flying stored on the parked ship. The only time you'd need to do it is if you've already filled the 60 spaces for stored modules at a station (and it's going to be doubled to 120 modules when the next update lands) so unless you do a lot of engineering it's probably not going to be a concern for you.

There are no cargo items which are needed for engineering to begin with by the way; all engineering uses materials and data only and they are stored separately from cargo in a magical backpack (*handwaves*) which you have with you all the time.

To be clear, there is no way to leave cargo in the cargo hold of a ship that you are not currently flying. You can swap between ships whilst carrying cargo as long as the ship you're swapping to has enough cargo space to hold what is in the ship you're swapping from but that's all.

 

[Ziljan]

I'm not trying to sell anything.
I am simply objecting to your hyperbolic and false information.


The Asp in question is much closer to the Dolphin in width, than the T-10; a difference of ~30m vs ~50 m.
The Dolphin is one of "the narrowest" ships.
That makes your follow up statement blatantly false as well, the shifting goalposts notwithstanding.
It's just not one of the widest ships at all and it is a lot smaller than a T-10.
Simple.

I'm far from a crack marksman and have no (extra) problem landing rail shots from the C2s.
You are just saying stuff with no evidence in support, and objective facts to the contrary.

It would make a fun test, to see what ships can actually fit in between those hardpoints and at what ranges.

When you open with ad hominems as your premise, you should realize that you undermine your entire argument because you are effectively saying that your argument cannot rest on the facts alone. But it doesn't distract from the fact that you are making false parallels between length and width (ignoring height altogether) comparing a pancake target to a cigar shaped one. Nor are you properly taking into account the ToT lost from lining up these perfect shots on the ideal axis, nor the time lost positioning yourself at a range that actually works.

But lucky for you my patience on these forums is very tempered these days. So if you wish to repeat the tests I've already run for the last year, feel free to post the results here. If you are honest with your results (tracking TTK, ToT, NPC Rank, Ship Model, etc), you'll find that the TTK is relatively high and the ToT is relatively low compared to an equivalently engineered Conda with Fixed or Gimbal weapons, or putting gimbals or seekers in both Corvette mediums.

Fair warning: If you can respond with logical fact based arguments, then I'll keep talking with you. But if you respond to this post with more ad hominens, I am just going to put you appropriately on ignore.

 

[DWorth]

Turretted pulse or beam lasers work well on the Corvette's small hardpoints. You can keep tickling the shields of your opponent whilst you turn to bring your heavier armaments to bear and stop the shields from recharging.

I have
2x Huge gimballed beam lasers
2x Medium gimballed multi-cannons
1x Large turretted pulse laser
2x Small turretted pulse lasers

Plus a fighter bay with a couple of Taipans in it.

I'd recommend a fighter bay on the larger ships. The addition of a fighter set to defend you helps you better deal with the more nimble wingmen of larger ships or swarms of small ships and keeps other vessels off your six whilst you take down the big momma.

I might be tempting fate, but I've not lost the Vette yet. I have a Cutter as well, and whilst it's a beautiful ship, its poor manoevreability, poorer power output and the sheer cost of repairs and rebuy make it less than ideal for combat. The Vette, on the other hand is cheaper to repair, more nimble, has greater power output and has military slots that you can use to reinforce it further, whilst still having decent cargo capacity even when fitted out as a warship.

 

[Ziljan]

Turretted pulse or beam lasers work well on the Corvette's small hardpoints.

I've seen people use turrets on the mediums. Didn't realize until I flew a T10 with the initial crappy firing horizon that one of the benefits of turrets is that they sit a little higher on the mount and this extra height can help alleviate the firing horizon issues. So medium turrets should help alleviate the horizon issues on the Vette as well.

Imo the best use of the smalls is long range railguns since they have full armor hardness penetration and do decent damage to shields/hull. The convergence is excellent, especially when paired with fixed beams. The C2 and C3 do well with gimbal cannons with overcharged/long-range & HYS. The overall damage is still pretty mediocre for being the largest specialist combat ship in the game, but this configuration is at least functional and efficient for PVE.