PvP Why PvP is not popular in Elite Dangerous?

[Moritasgus]

Sort answer, not everyone plays computer games to be competitive **shock horror**
I really enjoy strategy games, colony sims, ED, when i player shooters i mostly play single player. If i want pvp i prefer playing with friends rather than strangers.
I'm sure i'm not the only one.

I play exclusively in open but never look for pvp and will actively avoid it if i find other players looking to blow me up. No interest despite the murder hobos in playing any other way.

 

[lenna]

I have an idea. Why not leave Open and PvP alone? Those that enjoy PvP and/or the Open environment should take advantage of it. Those that don't, have alternatives available.

It seems at least some PvPers are not actually interested in proper balanced and well rounded PvP and perhaps feel they need to bait those not interested in playing their kind of PvP games into becoming content for them.

Min-max-ers across the board have made PvP non-viable in the apparently intended context of the ED Open environment. Anyone that does not min-max for combat effectively becomes cannon fodder for those that do and then those that min-max for combat wonder why people are not interested in PvP or do not wish to engage in the Open environment. This is not a problem created by Engineers and IMO the 3.0 changes to engineers do not change much in this area, if anything they probably make matters worse IMO.

The 3.0 C&P changes are going to perhaps make some more inclined to engage in Open but for many like myself they change nothing except make the penalties for some PvE combat mistakes harsher.

 

[Susanna]

This thread is 6 months old....

PvP isn't popular because PvP (in Elite) isn't very good.
Nuff Said'.



CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

I was shocked at the number of posts on this subject, until I realised how long this thread has been running!

 

[Lankspeed]

***Dont get me wrong, i am not in anyway against PvP for those who want it. much like so many things in life i do not personally partake in, so long as it is legal - or even if it is illegal so long as it does not affect me and it hurts no one - if you like it, and you are old enough to do it... fill your boots, just dont force it down my throat. ***

***I feel largely the same about religion

Totally Agree. I do not play PvP love the chance to look at the universe I will never see for real. I am an Amateur Astronomer so it is a virtual to look at what could be there ! Sorry I fantasize there!

P.s. Hate the 'Z'

 

[Quantis Trap]

Way back, I suggested a feature which I think would really be a fun:

Ship Launched Fighter Duals

I also put it in as a suggestion. I really hope that something like this makes it into the game this year. Maybe a uncoming squadrons feature can incorporate some aspects of what I was suggestion in this.

 

[Urbanski101]

For me it's a few reasons.

I think PvP in ED is on the whole non-consensual, you're flying a trade equipped ship and get attacked by one or more PvP built ships, you simply don't stand much of a chance.

Even if you do fly a PvP ship if you come up against a wing you're probably going to lose.

Lastly I played all previous Elite games as single player, that's the hook for me in ED, relaxation and playing at my pace without thinking about getting jumped by other players and their lolz

I like PvP in games designed just for that like Planetside 2 or any of the plethora of FPS games designed specifically for PvP or games with arena modes.

Other MMOs had a server choice (PvP, PvE, RP etc) and or flagging feature which was quite handy. I did enjoy CQC as it's a fairly even field and found it quite fun to PvP without the issues described above but it's just empty these days....wish they would bring it into the game as an option in the station menu. I'd probably play it quite a bit.

 

[Quantis Trap]

There are several problems with ED PVP, off the top of my head, which I think are keeping it from becoming more popular than it would be:
1) The rebuy cost can be a big detractor. It's not a big deal for me any more, but it is for some.
2) PvP is best when it mutually agreed upon in the moment. An in-game PvP flag would be nice.
3) The only PvP rewards seem to be youtube grabbing at the expense of others.
4) The possibility of youtube shaming. Every PvPer has many bad PvP fights during the process of gitting gud. Every PvPer should not have to endure the shaming during that process, even though some may welcome it.

 

[gribley]

for me PvP was the ultimate end game.
ive got 8 billion in assets, ive done BGS, powerplay, traded, bountyhunted done it all.
the final skill barrier is PvP and im a big believer that its the most demanding and dynamic thing in the game.

 

[Quantis Trap]

for me PvP was the ultimate end game.
ive got 8 billion in assets, ive done BGS, powerplay, traded, bountyhunted done it all.
the final skill barrier is PvP and im a big believer that its the most demanding and dynamic thing in the game.

Very true! A good ED PvPer is truely an amazing pilot and it's not skills you can get in any planet side flight sim! I'm not there yet for sure, but I'd like to be some day.

 

[gribley]

Very true! A good PvPer is truely an amazing pilot! I'm not there yet for sure, but I'd like to be some day.

PvP and PvE has massively different flying demands.
after getting into PvP my PvE skill has declined significantly. a brilliant PvE pilot is unlikely to have much luck in PvP off the bat

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

I want to do it, and dabble, but my internet connection sucks.

 

[Stealthie]

This might sound kind of obvious but bear with me...

I think the reason PvP isn't popular in ED (assuming that is true) is simply that most people are doing other stuff when it happens.

If FDev created "war zones" by making entire systems battle zones where people could get recruited as mercenaries and then turn up and fight, possibly with subsidised rebuys funded by PP factions etc, then it might attract more interest.

Then again, most of the "PvP" I've encountered seems to involve people with a distinct aversion to ships which might be capable of shooting back so maybe it wouldn't be popular after all?

 

[Quantis Trap]

PvP and PvE has massively different flying demands.
after getting into PvP my PvE skill has declined significantly. a brilliant PvE pilot is unlikely to have much luck in PvP off the bat

That's wierd! I've started down the PvP path, not that I'm good yet, but I think it's actually helped my PvE also. More skills in my brag so to speak.

 

[Tosan James]

Not to mention the massive power discrepancy between a combat-focussed ship and a general-purpose ship. If a player has put the effort into building a highly PvP-combat-focussed ship, then any player who comes up against them in a not-so-focussed vessel probably won't last long and probably won't have any enjoyment from the encounter.

This was the case before engineering, and engineer modifications hugely increase the difference.

THIS.....Engineering is what threw the game out of balance and made PVP unplayable or maybe I should say unpopular for the casual player.

 

[gribley]

That's wierd! I've started down the PvP path, not that I'm good yet, but I think it's actually helped my PvE also. More skills in my brag so to speak.

im going to sound like a bit of a META turd right now, but still.
PvP is PA centric genrally. as a result its all about landing shots without getting hit, the most common tactic being the joust (med ship VS med ship) or orbiting (med ship VS big ship, or focused PA VS efficent PA's).
not getting hit is most important here so boosting in and out of danger while avoiding PA's in FA-off is the norm. i personally (ymmv) find that as NPC's have a less aggressive flight profile and often use hit-scans there is less of a push to fly evasively and i can find myself tanking damage out of boredom, or changing how i fly to try and match the NPC's FA-on flight

personally if i do PvE with my ships its hard to flick back into the evasive and small TOT mentality again.

 

[Koen]

The main reason for me is that there is not much of a reason to PvP in terms of lore and story. Every time I have been attacked by another player (except for a couple of arranged RP PvP meetings - more about that below) it was somebody shooting at me without saying anything, without making demands, without me being wanted or having a bounty on my head or carrying precious cargo. So, I had no clue on WHY this commander was shooting, except that he probably got some thrill from the fight in its own right.

The game does not promote meaningful PvP: piracy hardly works, players are in both the Federal and Imperial army at the same time, the only thing which somehow makes players chose a side is PowerPlay which is problematic in its own right. Also, due to Peer2Peer networking and the way instancing works makes it very random with who one turns up in the same instance, which again makes PvP rather void of meaning. There simply is nothing to fight for.

I did try to go against the meaningless PvP: in the beginning of the game, Beta and Gamma times and just after the launch, we tried to organize Role Playing PvP events among several player groups. Problem was that we got no traction, we remained a small group, and of those I am now the only one who still plays the game. Forum policies also did not help, since our announcements were hidden in subforums where hardly anybody was looking. I tried to set up an umbrella organization to bring groups together where players just attacked other players in case the other player would be wanter/have a bounty, or if the players belonged to factions which had some war or feud between them going on, in stead of just "for the lulz", but I failed.

Later on, the Engineers introduced a schism among the players who do go through the grind to get their weapons and ships upgraded, and the others who have no fighting chance against the first group. So, when I returned to the bubble after a long exploration tour, the only option was to join Mobius or play Solo, since in Open I would not stand a chance until I go through the Engineers. I have no problem being killed by a player with superior skill, never combat logged when fighting in Open, but now I do not see the point of risking to get in a fight against over-tuned bazookas with my knife. I might return to Open if Beyond somewhat levels the playing field again.

 

[Quantis Trap]

im going to sound like a bit of a META turd right now, but still.
PvP is PA centric genrally. as a result its all about landing shots without getting hit, the most common tactic being the joust (med ship VS med ship) or orbiting (med ship VS big ship, or focused PA VS efficent PA's).
not getting hit is most important here so boosting in and out of danger while avoiding PA's in FA-off is the norm. i personally (ymmv) find that as NPC's have a less aggressive flight profile and often use hit-scans there is less of a push to fly evasively and i can find myself tanking damage out of boredom, or changing how i fly to try and match the NPC's FA-on flight

personally if i do PvE with my ships its hard to flick back into the evasive and small TOT mentality again.

I agree with this. It's easy to just set back and relax with your shield / hull tank and take to hits in PvE, but there's no rule that says you can't FA-off orbit the NPC even though you won't get much fight. It's a tall order to progam, but maybe Frontier will find a way to make an NPC which uses some of the PvP techniques.

 

[crushdepth]

Basically because there are huge differences in the capabilities of ships, even without engineering, which makes combat hopelessly unbalanced. There's no contest, so what's the point?

It doesn't help that most PVP people (at least those I've encountered) want to PVP against unarmed exploration ships in their cutter for the lols.

The asymmetry kills it.

 

[Drelthar]

I am interested in "Meaningful" PVP.

Obviously, that's my own definition of meaningful, and even if I try to explain it, the explaination would still end up being quite subjective.

But basically, for me to be interested in PVP in this game, it has to "Make sense within the game world"

Trying to steal cargo = makes sense to me.

Fighting against a member of an opposing power = Makes sense to me.

Attacking someone for their bounty (when it's not a complete pittance entirely unworth the effort) - Makese sense to me.

Tonnes of other things too.

Destroying a ship be "I roleplay as a psycho!" - Is lame to me.

Destroying a ship because "I like blowing up other commanders" / "It's a challenge" - Doesn't work for me.

For me it's all about why the battle is happening. When there's a reason, I love it. When I don't understand the reasoning, It doesn't get my interest.

 

[halo jones 101]

Because perhaps this game was and is designed to be multi faceted, offering a wide choice of play activities and ships with no one activity, or ship being prime. Thus I believe its not drawing a large audience for PvP only play.

The small faction of the player base to whom PvP is the primary reason to play, seemingly seem to be constantly focused on encouraging or badgering 'Frontier' to change the game. To make game play open only, as they are starved of targets, to spend more time focusing on PvP design, and then having to spend time more development time and resources balancing and then re-balancing, 'then re-balancing the re-balancing' all the while the forum PvP meta is a 'Squeaky Wheel'.

It would seem to me that the wider player base find plenty of other activities more attractive than PvP, and thus it is not that popular or viewed as important. I suspect that many would rather see 'Frontier' spend more time on other activities.